Hey everyone, just now back from a long hiatus wanted to check and makes sure my dnc sets are still current! Great guide, didn't see a lot for terp users and not sure I agree with what is out there but wanted some feedback. I use the general rule that 2STP > 1%MA > 1STP (Generalized by Saevel) and this is what I have come up with for AM up/down. Thanks.
ItemSet 360526
Cape: 30DEX 20ACC/20ATT 10DA 10PDT
Hands: ACC Path
ItemSet 360513
Cape: 30DEX 20ACC/20ATT 10STP 10PDT
Hands: ACC Path
These sets assume SAM subjob, max buffs (Endgame settings)
The Last Dance III: A Dancer's Guide *New*
The Last Dance III: A Dancer's Guide *New*
Asura.Pusheen said: »
These sets assume SAM subjob
But also: malignance tights should be better than Samnuha under AM3. And I think Epona's and Sherida depreciates AM3 by enough that they should probably be swapped out for things without DA. hetairoi ring, dignitary's earring, dedition earring, or even tripudio earring should be better options under AM3.
FaeQueenCory said: »
Asura.Pusheen said: »
These sets assume SAM subjob
But also: malignance tights should be better than Samnuha under AM3. And I think Epona's and Sherida depreciates AM3 by enough that they should probably be swapped out for things without DA. hetairoi ring, dignitary's earring, dedition earring, or even tripudio earring should be better options under AM3.
I stopped spreadsheeting a while ago, but even jobs that can maximize the output of AM3 don't shed themselves of all their MA, you use a balance off both.
Samnhua has STP7 on them and Malignance has 10? (On my phone atm) I'm n9t sure -9MA to get an additional 3stp is profitable.
As for /drg I'm not sure what they got in the update but I've never had enmity issues on DNC to support just getting HighJump. Even when I was doing dynamis wave3 clears.
Just looked and saw the 7% was. Obviously useful for Rudras I wonder how much the difference of having that versus meditate/sekkanoki/stp15 from Sam sub is.
Far as I know the wsd is for every hit of the weapon skill
Asura.Pusheen said: »
Just looked and saw the 7% was. Obviously useful for Rudras I wonder how much the difference of having that versus meditate/sekkanoki/stp15 from Sam sub is.
Thats 7%WSD for all hits and it's unique multiplier, so not only for Rudra.
[+]
FaeQueenCory said: »
Asura.Pusheen said: »
These sets assume SAM subjob
But also: malignance tights should be better than Samnuha under AM3. And I think Epona's and Sherida depreciates AM3 by enough that they should probably be swapped out for things without DA. hetairoi ring, dignitary's earring, dedition earring, or even tripudio earring should be better options under AM3.
The only thing better from those would be Dedition earring but instead of Telos, not Sherida. That being said I would use Malignance legs and hands, because once you go high meva once, you dont want to go back :D
[+]
SimonSes said: »
FaeQueenCory said: »
Asura.Pusheen said: »
These sets assume SAM subjob
But also: malignance tights should be better than Samnuha under AM3. And I think Epona's and Sherida depreciates AM3 by enough that they should probably be swapped out for things without DA. hetairoi ring, dignitary's earring, dedition earring, or even tripudio earring should be better options under AM3.
The only thing better from those would be Dedition earring but instead of Telos, not Sherida. That being said I would use Malignance legs and hands, because once you go high meva once, you dont want to go back :D
Thanks to everyone for the replies, seems I was not far off. The uniqueness of the DRG sub JT will make me rethink some builds. If anyone has matched up /drg and /Sam I would be very I retested to see those results. Subbing drg would require more stp on AM3 builds but should be a very nice boost to PK.
Asura.Pusheen said: »
Samnhua has STP7 on them and Malignance has 10? (On my phone atm) I'm n9t sure -9MA to get an additional 3stp is profitable.
To sum, any Double Attack will depreciate a Mythic's "triple attack", where the more you have, the less triple attacks will proc.
Now there's a bit of a balancing act where you could have very low DA and not depreciate your "triple attack" from AM to the point where it screws you over. So like Simon said, Sherida is fine alone.
But when you're stacking up to 12% DA... that's messing up your AM.
Triple Attack proper and Quadruple Attack don't statistically affect things, since while they "overwrite" AM3, you gain the same number of extra hits as what you lose for a net 0.
FaeQueenCory said: »
Asura.Pusheen said: »
Samnhua has STP7 on them and Malignance has 10? (On my phone atm) I'm n9t sure -9MA to get an additional 3stp is profitable.
To sum, any Double Attack will depreciate a Mythic's "triple attack", where the more you have, the less triple attacks will proc.
Now there's a bit of a balancing act where you could have very low DA and not depreciate your "triple attack" from AM to the point where it screws you over. So like Simon said, Sherida is fine alone.
But when you're stacking up to 12% DA... that's messing up your AM.
Triple Attack proper and Quadruple Attack don't statistically affect things, since while they "overwrite" AM3, you gain the same number of extra hits as what you lose for a net 0.
This assumes TA will in fact proc off the AM when all other checks fail. I'm not saying your wrong but I think we approach our gear choices differently
At its lowest potency Saber dance gives a static 20%DA and even though I use a Terp I still dps with SD up. a double attack is better than a normal attack. I'm not looking to stack tons of DA, but if a piece is offering substantial stats and has DA on it I don't nessicarily shy away.
Maybe I'm doing it wrong and shouldn't have SD up when AM3 is up? 8F this is the case please feel free to correct me its just they way I have always played DNC thanks.
It's not assuming a AM3 proc, it's about even having the chance at being allowed to proc at all.
The game checks multi attacks in a certain order.
Quadruple, then Triple, then Double.
THEN Occasionally Attacks X times, of which Mythic Aftermath is a part of... basically.
So every time a Double Attack procs, you lose the ability to have a triple attack proc from AM3. So with 12% DA, you're looking at about 1:10 attacks that can't have a triple attack. (It's actually slightly less than that, but close enough.)
And with Saber Dance, and your previously shown set, you're sitting at 32% DA. So you have basically a 1:3 chance to lose out on a "triple attack" proc. So, yes, you have been gimping yourself by using Saber Dance when you have AM3 up; as you're losing extra hits "a third" of the time.
AM3 at 95+ is 20% 3x and 40% 2x, so you're already at "40%" "Double Attack"... but that's not additive to Saber Dance, so you're still floating around 40%ish even with +32% DA.
Basically, you're pushing "double attacks" procing over "triple attacks" procing by using Saber Dance and lots of DA in gear.
The game checks multi attacks in a certain order.
Quadruple, then Triple, then Double.
THEN Occasionally Attacks X times, of which Mythic Aftermath is a part of... basically.
So every time a Double Attack procs, you lose the ability to have a triple attack proc from AM3. So with 12% DA, you're looking at about 1:10 attacks that can't have a triple attack. (It's actually slightly less than that, but close enough.)
And with Saber Dance, and your previously shown set, you're sitting at 32% DA. So you have basically a 1:3 chance to lose out on a "triple attack" proc. So, yes, you have been gimping yourself by using Saber Dance when you have AM3 up; as you're losing extra hits "a third" of the time.
AM3 at 95+ is 20% 3x and 40% 2x, so you're already at "40%" "Double Attack"... but that's not additive to Saber Dance, so you're still floating around 40%ish even with +32% DA.
Basically, you're pushing "double attacks" procing over "triple attacks" procing by using Saber Dance and lots of DA in gear.
[+]
FaeQueenCory said: »
It's not assuming a AM3 proc, it's about even having the chance at being allowed to proc at all.
The game checks multi attacks in a certain order.
Quadruple, then Triple, then Double.
THEN Occasionally Attacks X times, of which Mythic Aftermath is a part of... basically.
So every time a Double Attack procs, you lose the ability to have a triple attack proc from AM3. So with 12% DA, you're looking at about 1:10 attacks that can't have a triple attack. (It's actually slightly less than that, but close enough.)
And with Saber Dance, and your previously shown set, you're sitting at 32% DA. So you have basically a 1:3 chance to lose out on a "triple attack" proc. So, yes, you have been gimping yourself by using Saber Dance when you have AM3 up; as you're losing extra hits "a third" of the time.
AM3 at 95+ is 20% 3x and 40% 2x, so you're already at "40%" "Double Attack"... but that's not additive to Saber Dance, so you're still floating around 40%ish even with +32% DA.
Basically, you're pushing "double attacks" procing over "triple attacks" procing by using Saber Dance and lots of DA in gear.
The game checks multi attacks in a certain order.
Quadruple, then Triple, then Double.
THEN Occasionally Attacks X times, of which Mythic Aftermath is a part of... basically.
So every time a Double Attack procs, you lose the ability to have a triple attack proc from AM3. So with 12% DA, you're looking at about 1:10 attacks that can't have a triple attack. (It's actually slightly less than that, but close enough.)
And with Saber Dance, and your previously shown set, you're sitting at 32% DA. So you have basically a 1:3 chance to lose out on a "triple attack" proc. So, yes, you have been gimping yourself by using Saber Dance when you have AM3 up; as you're losing extra hits "a third" of the time.
AM3 at 95+ is 20% 3x and 40% 2x, so you're already at "40%" "Double Attack"... but that's not additive to Saber Dance, so you're still floating around 40%ish even with +32% DA.
Basically, you're pushing "double attacks" procing over "triple attacks" procing by using Saber Dance and lots of DA in gear.
Thanks, but I know how the procs check for multi attacks.
Your saying, by procing DA in the check order, I'm passing a TA proc from AM.
What I am hearing is, by having a chance to proc DA, if it procs, you are missing out on a chance to proc TA from your AM. That check, however, could fail as well, and often does seeing how its only 20%.
I'm not trying to spark an argument, maybe I am not being clear on how I personally approach gear for AM. AM is only a 20/40 chance to proc, it can miss and it certainly does. This is why my original response said that I don't mind a little DA. If DA procs thats twice the TP I would generate than a single hit. I'm not gearing for it, and ofc I would prefer TA. However I don't see why passing on samnuha, for example, makes sense simply bc it has 3DA on it, especially considering Saber Dance.
Now if you are advocating mythic users should not use SD or use Saber/Fan dance situationally and just play vanilla as Terp dps, To me that would make a lot more sense which is why I said maybe I have been doing it wrong. Its certainly possible and nobody ever thinks they are wrong which is why I presented that as an option.
To me, what you are describing certainly makes sense within that context. Otherwise it seems counter intuitive to me.
put up saber, get am3, cancel saber, win.
or just use reverse flourish etc. and skip it.
Or just main hand twash or Tauret and ride saber into the sunset I guess.
Personally, I like using terp and having all my cures available.
or just use reverse flourish etc. and skip it.
Or just main hand twash or Tauret and ride saber into the sunset I guess.
Personally, I like using terp and having all my cures available.
[+]
It cuts into the chance of an AM triple attack, but it's probably not going to mean fewer overall hits if you have SD up. It could, but it just seems...pretty unlikely.
Now, what IS apparent is that not having SD up means your waltzes stay available, which is nice and I find usually worth it on its own, and more importantly - and this, I think, is getting drowned out a bit - running DA on your gear when using Terps is bad and you should think about drawing that down a little. SD vs. no SD is binary, but you could possibly replace the DA gear with stuff that would help you in other ways. Moonlight Ring might be an attractive alternative to Epona's for you since Malignance is getting you so much -DT to build on, for instance.
Now, what IS apparent is that not having SD up means your waltzes stay available, which is nice and I find usually worth it on its own, and more importantly - and this, I think, is getting drowned out a bit - running DA on your gear when using Terps is bad and you should think about drawing that down a little. SD vs. no SD is binary, but you could possibly replace the DA gear with stuff that would help you in other ways. Moonlight Ring might be an attractive alternative to Epona's for you since Malignance is getting you so much -DT to build on, for instance.
[+]
I am a fan of Chiner's Belt +1, hetairoi ring, and Chirich +1 personally.
Is it possible for someone (skilled dnc) to post their updated sets?
p.s I mention skilled because I DON'T fall into that category lol.
p.s I mention skilled because I DON'T fall into that category lol.
Does the Triple attack damage + Proc on AM3 Occasionally attack 3x?
I would not think so, but just checking.
I would not think so, but just checking.
FaeQueenCory said: »
It's not assuming a AM3 proc, it's about even having the chance at being allowed to proc at all.
The game checks multi attacks in a certain order.
Quadruple, then Triple, then Double.
THEN Occasionally Attacks X times, of which Mythic Aftermath is a part of... basically.
So every time a Double Attack procs, you lose the ability to have a triple attack proc from AM3. So with 12% DA, you're looking at about 1:10 attacks that can't have a triple attack. (It's actually slightly less than that, but close enough.)
And with Saber Dance, and your previously shown set, you're sitting at 32% DA. So you have basically a 1:3 chance to lose out on a "triple attack" proc. So, yes, you have been gimping yourself by using Saber Dance when you have AM3 up; as you're losing extra hits "a third" of the time.
AM3 at 95+ is 20% 3x and 40% 2x, so you're already at "40%" "Double Attack"... but that's not additive to Saber Dance, so you're still floating around 40%ish even with +32% DA.
Basically, you're pushing "double attacks" procing over "triple attacks" procing by using Saber Dance and lots of DA in gear.
The game checks multi attacks in a certain order.
Quadruple, then Triple, then Double.
THEN Occasionally Attacks X times, of which Mythic Aftermath is a part of... basically.
So every time a Double Attack procs, you lose the ability to have a triple attack proc from AM3. So with 12% DA, you're looking at about 1:10 attacks that can't have a triple attack. (It's actually slightly less than that, but close enough.)
And with Saber Dance, and your previously shown set, you're sitting at 32% DA. So you have basically a 1:3 chance to lose out on a "triple attack" proc. So, yes, you have been gimping yourself by using Saber Dance when you have AM3 up; as you're losing extra hits "a third" of the time.
AM3 at 95+ is 20% 3x and 40% 2x, so you're already at "40%" "Double Attack"... but that's not additive to Saber Dance, so you're still floating around 40%ish even with +32% DA.
Basically, you're pushing "double attacks" procing over "triple attacks" procing by using Saber Dance and lots of DA in gear.
You are simply wrong. AM3 is in conflict with double attack, but ANY amount of DA will be beneficial (including Saber Dance), less beneficial than without AM3 obviously, but it will still give you higher average hits per round. This is mainly because AM3 only works for one hand, while DA works for both. I'm speaking from math perspective btw. You can calculate it yourself if you have any doubts about that.
[+]
SimonSes said: »
FaeQueenCory said: »
It's not assuming a AM3 proc, it's about even having the chance at being allowed to proc at all.
The game checks multi attacks in a certain order.
Quadruple, then Triple, then Double.
THEN Occasionally Attacks X times, of which Mythic Aftermath is a part of... basically.
So every time a Double Attack procs, you lose the ability to have a triple attack proc from AM3. So with 12% DA, you're looking at about 1:10 attacks that can't have a triple attack. (It's actually slightly less than that, but close enough.)
And with Saber Dance, and your previously shown set, you're sitting at 32% DA. So you have basically a 1:3 chance to lose out on a "triple attack" proc. So, yes, you have been gimping yourself by using Saber Dance when you have AM3 up; as you're losing extra hits "a third" of the time.
AM3 at 95+ is 20% 3x and 40% 2x, so you're already at "40%" "Double Attack"... but that's not additive to Saber Dance, so you're still floating around 40%ish even with +32% DA.
Basically, you're pushing "double attacks" procing over "triple attacks" procing by using Saber Dance and lots of DA in gear.
The game checks multi attacks in a certain order.
Quadruple, then Triple, then Double.
THEN Occasionally Attacks X times, of which Mythic Aftermath is a part of... basically.
So every time a Double Attack procs, you lose the ability to have a triple attack proc from AM3. So with 12% DA, you're looking at about 1:10 attacks that can't have a triple attack. (It's actually slightly less than that, but close enough.)
And with Saber Dance, and your previously shown set, you're sitting at 32% DA. So you have basically a 1:3 chance to lose out on a "triple attack" proc. So, yes, you have been gimping yourself by using Saber Dance when you have AM3 up; as you're losing extra hits "a third" of the time.
AM3 at 95+ is 20% 3x and 40% 2x, so you're already at "40%" "Double Attack"... but that's not additive to Saber Dance, so you're still floating around 40%ish even with +32% DA.
Basically, you're pushing "double attacks" procing over "triple attacks" procing by using Saber Dance and lots of DA in gear.
You are simply wrong. AM3 is in conflict with double attack, but ANY amount of DA will be beneficial (including Saber Dance), less beneficial than without AM3 obviously, but it will still give you higher average hits per round. This is mainly because AM3 only works for one hand, while DA works for both. I'm speaking from math perspective btw. You can calculate it yourself if you have any doubts about that.
Yeah I couldn't remember the exact reason why but this about sums it up. Also Saber Dance can proc on ws and AM3 cannot (iirc)
Asura.Pusheen said: »
Also Saber Dance can proc on ws and AM3 cannot (iirc)
Oh here you are wrong. It can proc on WS and its a massive advantage of mythic am3 actually. It can only proc only once tho, same as for attack round.
[+]
Few questions, when are relic legs better than lustratio for rudras? It it always? They have no DEX which is why I'm wondering.
When is JSE+2 neck better than fotia for PK? Only at attack cap? What about for evis?
Trying to update my DNC. Thanks!
When is JSE+2 neck better than fotia for PK? Only at attack cap? What about for evis?
Trying to update my DNC. Thanks!
Necro Bump Detected!
[38 days between previous and next post]
I was recently told that a single dancer can affect the alliance with haste samba instead of only their party. Where was the testing done for this?
IIRC this was first confirmed at 75 in Dynamis. Anyway, it shouldn't be surprising considering sambas are a debuff.
[+]
Leviathan.Katriina said: »
Demi-God when Saber Dance:
This ability is great, more so for Terpsichore users. The Double Attack provided will boost the overall damage by quite a margin. Dancers current TP set heavily relies on Multi-Hits and Double Attack Average is usually 20-22% and with Saber Dance after decay you will have a constant 40-47%.
Pyrrhic Kleos, Evisceration get a considerable boost when Saber Dance is active, and these are the bread and butter for Mythic Dancers. There is enough evidence to full-time Saber Dance, and cancelling it is only one click away in the case of emergency.
This ability is great, more so for Terpsichore users. The Double Attack provided will boost the overall damage by quite a margin. Dancers current TP set heavily relies on Multi-Hits and Double Attack Average is usually 20-22% and with Saber Dance after decay you will have a constant 40-47%.
Pyrrhic Kleos, Evisceration get a considerable boost when Saber Dance is active, and these are the bread and butter for Mythic Dancers. There is enough evidence to full-time Saber Dance, and cancelling it is only one click away in the case of emergency.
This part of the guide is really weird for me. I mean Saber Dance is beneficial for Mythic users, but far more for non mythic user. Mythic has AM3 working for both TP and WS. Saber dance actually blocks AM3 proc, so the gain from additional DA is far less valuable than for non mythic user. Also Evisceration during AM3 is the worst example for DA being "considerable boost". Avg hits on Evisceration during AM3 is way over 7 and single TA proc on either hand or TA proc from AM3 on main hand will cap number of hits at 8. DA from saber dance adds very little to Evisceration. Pyrrhic Kleos is 5 hits base (with offhand), so it has slightly more benefits from additional DA, still not THAT much tho. Saber Dance mainly gives benefit to TP phase and much more for non Terpsi users.
ScaevolaBahamut said: »
IIRC this was first confirmed at 75 in Dynamis. Anyway, it shouldn't be surprising considering sambas are a debuff.
I half figure that I blocked it out to not have conniptions from all of the /dnc overwriting my properly merited haste samba all these years.
Nevermind, I'm wrong; it's party-only.
Trying to see where I can optimize my play style/gear/etc.
I managed to put together a Gin solo run finally, and timed out @ 24% HP remaining on Gin. When I engaged I had about 27~ minutes on the clock due to some bad luck on midboss which took longer than I would have liked.
Should 27 minutes be enough to time to kill Gin? Trust loadout was Qultada/Joachim/Selhteus/Koru/Yoran, in that order. Made sure to position myself/Gin in such a way that I really only started losing trusts the last few minutes or so.
Terp R13. close to BiS PK set, Good hybrid set. Not sure what to change.
I seemed to pick up the pace a little bit by going with a Hybrid set rather than a full tank set (turms stuff/dring/etc.) Rode Fan Dance the whole way so no haste samba. Don't have malignance gear just yet.
Suggestions?
Gear sets:
I managed to put together a Gin solo run finally, and timed out @ 24% HP remaining on Gin. When I engaged I had about 27~ minutes on the clock due to some bad luck on midboss which took longer than I would have liked.
Should 27 minutes be enough to time to kill Gin? Trust loadout was Qultada/Joachim/Selhteus/Koru/Yoran, in that order. Made sure to position myself/Gin in such a way that I really only started losing trusts the last few minutes or so.
Terp R13. close to BiS PK set, Good hybrid set. Not sure what to change.
I seemed to pick up the pace a little bit by going with a Hybrid set rather than a full tank set (turms stuff/dring/etc.) Rode Fan Dance the whole way so no haste samba. Don't have malignance gear just yet.
Suggestions?
Gear sets:
Code
sets.precast.WS['Pyrrhic Kleos'] = {
ammo="Mantoptera Eye",
head={ name="Lustratio Cap +1", augments={'Attack+20','STR+8','"Dbl.Atk."+3',}},
body={ name="Horos Casaque +3", augments={'Enhances "No Foot Rise" effect',}},
hands={ name="Adhemar Wrist. +1", augments={'STR+12','DEX+12','Attack+20',}},
legs={ name="Samnuha Tights", augments={'STR+10','DEX+10','"Dbl.Atk."+3','"Triple Atk."+3',}},
feet={ name="Lustra. Leggings +1", augments={'Attack+20','STR+8','"Dbl.Atk."+3',}},
neck="FotiaGorget",
waist="FotiaBelt",
left_ear="Brutal Earring",
right_ear="Sherida Earring",
left_ring="Apate Ring",
right_ring="Epona's Ring",
back={ name="Senuna's Mantle", augments={'STR+20','Accuracy+20 Attack+20','STR+10','"Dbl.Atk."+10',}},
}
sets.engaged = {
ammo="Yamarang",
head={ name="Adhemar Bonnet +1", augments={'STR+12','DEX+12','Attack+20',}},
body={ name="Horos Casaque +3", augments={'Enhances "No Foot Rise" effect',}},
hands={ name="Adhemar Wrist. +1", augments={'STR+12','DEX+12','Attack+20',}},
legs={ name="Samnuha Tights", augments={'STR+10','DEX+10','"Dbl.Atk."+3','"Triple Atk."+3',}},
feet={ name="Horos T. Shoes +3", augments={'Enhances "Closed Position" effect',}},
neck="Etoile Gorget +1",
waist="Kentarch Belt",
left_ear="Suppanomimi",
right_ear="Sherida Earring",
left_ring="Petrov Ring",
right_ring="Epona's Ring",
back={ name="Senuna's Mantle", augments={'DEX+20','Accuracy+20 Attack+20','"Store TP"+10','Damage taken-5%',}},
} -- 22%
sets.engaged.Hybrid = {
ammo="Staunch Tathlum", --2/2
neck="Twilight Torque", --5/0
legs="Mummu Kecks +2", --5/5
ear1="Etiolation Earring",--0/3
ring1="Vocane Ring", --7/7
ring2="Defending Ring", --10/10
waist="Flume Belt" -- 4/0
}
The answer is pretty obvious. Get Malignance set.
SimonSes said: »
The answer is pretty obvious. Get Malignance set.
Meh people were doing this well before Malig came around! Gotta be something else I’m missing gear wise or something I’m not doing from a play style perspective.
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