The Last Dance III: A Dancer's Guide *New*

How does the kentarch beat out Etoile +2 with rudra's. the 25 dex and str beat out the kentarch +1 aug'd with 10 dex and 10 str

one is a waist piece, the other is a neck piece

Geeze my headache has got the best of me today.

I typed an email to a customer that I told her if she gave me a sex I would get back to her. I had meant sec. Good thing I have know and done business with her for a while.

I've been out of the loop on DNC for a while, but looking for something to mess with and get points in Dyna so I may grab a +2 neck and play with my DNC a bit. Not gonna make a Terp, might 119 a Twash for DNC THF one day but no time super soon. Got pretty much all of the relevant armor.

So, the weapons I'm working with are:
- Aeneas (R3 aug at the moment, not really a huge priority for me because LOL Exenterator, minimal DMG increase, and some acc)
- Tauret
- Ternion +1 (R15)
- Taming Sari (just shy of perfect augs, missing 1 DEX 1 STR)
- Centovente (pending - don't have it yet but I plan to make that soon anyway)

What's the general advice for best weapon pairing(s) and WS selection, given my options? I assume Climactic+Rudra's for any weapon setup, but when spamming at 1000~1250tp, what should I be using for my go-to?

* Aeneas MH: probably Rudra spam at 1250TP, right?

* Tauret MH: is Tauret/Evis spam worth using over my other options (I know it's strong on THF, not sure if there are any more DNC-specific quirks)?

* What offhand? I'm guessing that particularly for Aeneas, Centovente wins out for offhand at least when no acc concerns. Yes? No? How close is Ternion +1?

* What about offhand when you need more acc - Ternion +1 these days? Do Sari or Tauret hold up?

* Any cases where PK spam is worthwhile for a non-Terp user?

Thanks in advance for any advice!

If you are doing just evisceration spam then Tauret main hand. If Rudra's then Aeneas/Tauret. or if you plan on it Aeneas/Twashtar.

Setan Kober Route B (Main hand only)
[1] Chance of follow-up attack +50%
[2] "Subtle Blow II" +25
[3] DMG: +5

Paired with Centovente is awesome for soloing. Its a solid OH ACC options as well with lower step cost being an additional bonus.

Uh yeah that's kinda my question though. SC situations aside, which one of those is better - Tauret Evis spam or Aeneas Rudra? Any generally accepted position?

And does that Tauret offhand advice really still stand up, with the recent introduction of Ternion +1 augments?

Centovente is the other variable - I'm guessing with my available options (no Terp Twash), using that as offhand to Aeneas is ideal as long as acc is OK. Can anyone back that up? (more relevant to Rudra than Evisceration, obviously)


Interesting option, but not that interested in dropping 150-200mil for an un-augmented Su5 weapon for a "playing around" job. I'd also probably be on other jobs for solos: I have a top geared NIN and PUP, solid THF (if TH is important), so not sure when I'd care too much about DNC solo.

Maybe useful as an offhand (which wouldn't need to be augmented so could be resold), but DPS-wise is Setan really a better high acc OH choice than other high acc options in Tauret or Ternion +1?

EDIT: speaking of this, anyone have an up-to-date (or close) DNC spreadsheet? Is the one on the OP reliable (I do see it's lacking most gear from the past couple years). Interested in seeing some actual evidence to back up results, and I'm happy to play with spreadsheet scenarios myself.

in high buff situations my evis (tauret/twashtar) does 25-35k @1k tp. my unstacked rudra @3k tp will do 35-40k, so unless i'm making SC I find evis spam works great, or rudra > evis > rudra if I am SCing.

@Capucin if we're talking low cost kinda "oh cool i'm just trying out / dicking around with DNC cause I have a few gear from thf" and things like that. If you are gonna use Rudra with Aeneas, I wouldnt centovente off hand since DNC usually gets TP pretty fast. You already have +750 tp bonus from Aeneas and Earring. So you'd WS at 1250+TP instead of 1k (Twash/Cento)

Consider this? Polyhymnia Augmented it's 5% WSD, -10 enmity, STP 8, atk 13, and 50 ACC to boot. The regain is nifty. I used that for a bit in DynamisD. Its pretty cheap (Oboro wep), it's close to Tauret offhand in dmg so might not want to get -1 inv but it's a thing ppl often forget about.

If I could figure out the 'correct' way to calculate Tauret in the Spreadsheet, I could give you an accurate answer. I've googled and searched both Dnc and Thf to find a relevant DPS sheet with accurate information but I'm coming up blank.

I've been slowly updating my DPS sheet this week, but I still don't have a clue what to do with Tauret's Evis Dmg or varying Crit %, on a single hand.

Sechs mentioned he did it for Thf, but he didn't share the spreadsheet and used a 3 year old base. I've tried manually forcing 150% in the Data Tab, I've tried adding 50% to the weapons tab, and neither end up adding more than 1k in WS damage for Evis. So in both of those instances, it gets destroyed by Anus w/Rudra. I'll have to go back to the old Dnc thread, but pretty sure Simon found an error with Evis calculation in the Dnc spreadsheet that had been there for years, can't remember if I fixed it on all my spreadsheets. I'll do some digging.

For whatever it's worth, in my personal experience (I have ***, Anus, & Tourettes) I almost always use Anus/***. (Ignoring Cento situations) I use Tauret from time to time, but it always feels lackluster to me, even when spamming Evis. But other than eyeballing numbers, I have no hard data to back up my feeling. Scoreboard only goes so far.

Fair enough, it may be more practical to target doing effectively 2k TP Rudras (@1250 actual TP) than to do effectively 3k Rudras by also adding a Centovente OH. Rudra TP scaling does get more of an increase from 1000 to 2000 than the incremental increase at 3000, and the risk of going over 1250 and "wasting" TP is a very real practical concern if you're rolling with that much TP Bonus from Aeneas/Cento. I can see the logic, even if I don't have the math to back it up.


Yeah I have an old Polyhmnia too. While it's certainly not a terrible piece, I have a bit of a hard time seeing it beat Ternion +1.

Ternion +1 (R15): DMG:117 Dly:175 Acc+67 Skill+228 TA+4% WSD+5%
Polyhymnia: DMG:95 Dly:194 Acc+50 Atk+13 Skill+242 Enm-10 STP+8 WSD+5%

WSD cancels out, so we're left with Ternion +1 having advantages of TA+4%, lower delay, higher overall acc (acc for the offhand itself is almost the same as Polyhmnia when you account for skill+Acc, but the higher pure Acc stat on Ternion applies to mainhand too), and significant DMG increase (on an offhand, that mostly equates to a bit more white damage from offhand swings).

Poly has advantages of STP+8, Enm-10, and ~Atk+26 (Atk+13 and skill+14)

Unless the enmity- comes into play for your situation, while I haven't done the exact math, that looks like a pretty easy call in favor of Ternion+1.


Thanks for sharing. The thing about Tauret that I'm already familiar with from THF is that it's pretty hard to eyeball due to the very low delay (WS frequency+) and substantial white damage increase from all those crits (which is really hard to notice from eyeballing, and is pretty significant on jobs like THF DNC with native crit dmg+ traits/gifts). Even when you're getting lower single WS, the white damage and somewhat increased WS frequency makes up some ground.

That being said, DNC differs from THF in the substantial SC bonus from trait/gifts. Which may lend itself more to WS that are easier to SC with, like an Aeonic-enhanced Rudra's Storm. So my gut tells me that Tauret MH is a bit better on THF (which also gets a bit more crit dmg+ and TA dmg+ for white damage increase) than it is on the more WS-oriented DNC.

I guess as I've thought through this more, I'm leaning more and more toward Aeneas/Ternion+1. But I've yet to back that up with solid math/spreadsheet evidence, or any real world parse data. Very open to further input, and I appreciate those of you who have chimed in.

If you are going to spam evis or rudra's, R15 twashtar offhand is the way to go. the 70 dex you get from twashtar r15 might out do anything else off-hand. My Dnc in my normal tp set has 415 dex, ws set has 450. add 30 to those numbers in escha zones.

Only 50 DEX for offhand. Still a great option.

That might be true for people with a Twashtar, but like I initially said, I don't have one and am not personally highly motivated to make an expensive new R15 RMEA for a job that isn't in my top 5 in terms of priority. Especially when I have pretty solid alternatives with Aeonic, Tauret, and the rest of the non-RMEA/Su5 offhands. Trying to figure out how to get the most out of those choices.

Twash may indeed be better, but I'm not even entirely clear about degree. It's certainly a more incremental improvement than some RMEAs being a truly job changing difference to the alternatives. The bang for your buck just isn't really there for me, given my personal focus. FWIW, I actually had 1500HMP/60 Dross that were gonna go toward a Twash, but ended up deciding to allocate them to my alt's Daurdabla instead for a bigger overall impact. Might still do the Twash some day, but it isn't gonna be in the next few months.

Okay, based on the answer from Thf Forum here are my results.
(Data > Cell E211 > 150% & Add 18.75% Crit Rate to TP only)

My DPS Sheets are based on my playstyle. Hume, /Sam, Curry Bun, Closed Position 5/5, NO Saber Dance, Apex Bats, and ***most importantly*** Trust Value Buffs. Double Bard, Geo, Rdm, Whm. I don't have Qultada, I'm never around for Trust events, hopefully next month I get lucky. The 2nd bard is usually the one that gets dropped for a Tank, or Cor as needed.
*Also please note, that I did not use the 'listed' BIS for Evis, as this set was the highest I could create within the spreadsheet.



I got tired of copy/pasting so here are some alternate daggers, total DPS:
*All using Tauret Main hand:
Twash(Aug) - 4199
Aeneas - 4189
Taming (Perfect) - 4080
Ternion+1(Aug) - 3998
Kaja - 3971
Setan (B) - 3915
SkinFlayer (Perfect) - 3858
Blurred +1 - 3807
Centovente - 3062

Aeneas/Twash(Aug) - 4004
Aeneas/Taming - 3839
Aeneas/Tauret - 3768
Aeneas/Kaja - 3755

Twash(AM1)/Ternion+1(Aug) - 3938 (Idk if the WSD works offhand? Probably not)
Twash(AM1)/Taming - 3924
Twash(AM1)/Tauret - 3854
Twash(AM1)/Kaja - 3784
Twash(AM1)/Aeneas - 3774

Tl;dr
In my opinion, you'd be better off farming(even a non-perfect) Taming Sari as an offhand, rather than investing the Gil to get any of these other daggers. Or a Kaja Knife is easy enough.
Edit: Just read that you have both Aeneas and Tauret. Just equip them in any order you like, and call it a day. In a real world parse, you might never being able to tell the difference.
Personally, I feel Climactic Rudra's combined with Sekkanoki and Reverse Flourish, which the spreadsheet can't calculate, will destroy any gap that Tauret has in white damage. That's before we even discuss the Skillchain damage benefit AND the bonus of Umbra for when you want to really Solo-Zerg something. (T3 Escha NMs for Pulse Weapons comes to mind.)

Aeneas is more useful on DNC, IMO. The WS avg seems similar at 1000 TP but rudra having the freedom to self SC or open/close SC in any order adds substantial damage.

It's something that's very hard to see on spreadsheet and more noticeable when you compare the clear time rather than parse data(or only if your parse calculates SC damage)

Good stuff, thanks so much for the detailed reply!

Any chance you're open to sharing your spreadsheet? Whether it's perfect or not, sounds like it's a bit of an improvement over the one linked in the OP and probably has gear updates too. If all you did was base things on the OP sheet and add the additional cell you noted, please let me know and I'll just do that.


BTW, Ternion augments do work on offhand. So it's a pretty nice option, even for some jobs that are typically not dagger users (it's a BiS NIN offhand for many builds, solid for things like DW BST or WAR offhand, RNG melee, etc.)

I'm on board with the reasoning you and Afania note for Aeneas. Especially with DNC getting so much SC Bonus, and much more SC flexibility than Tauret being more Evisceration-focused.

Thanks everybody!

Just FYI, /Sam is no longer the standard sub, drg is.

Drg should favor aeneas more because bigger ws and SC damage. Sam has worse ws/SC damage thus white damage having more weight.

Yeah, I think my post got lost on the previous page, do you have a Jump/High Jump set, even as a start point?

It was answered right before your first post asking for it..

Oh, I didn't know this about /DRG. I'm guessing because of the recent abundance of STP on gear that having two additional attack rounds outweighs diminishing returns on STP?

You think stacking Dual Wield is the most effective gear change for Jump. Can I quote you on that?

I think you probably missed the 7% WSD bonus from /DRG that works on all hits of the weaponskill.

Seriously?

be·fore
/bəˈfôr/
preposition · conjunction · adverb
1.
during the period of time preceding (a particular event, date, or time).

For someone whose self worth is determined entirely by being 'right' in every semantic discussion possible on this forum, that's a pretty big oversight.


It's a very simple question. Does anyone already have an optimized gear set for Jump in their lua that they can share.

ehhh phone correction. It was meant to be right below.

That being said, the answer is there. None makes special set for jump. You simply use your max haste TP set.

For jump, I think there's also some consideration of STP versus Multi-attack. Obviously MA procs can lead to higher TP spikes, but if you're relying on jump TP as a way to set up a next WS it could be beneficial to keep TP return a bit more consistent with a more Store TP focused jump set.

If you don't care to optimize for jump, Simon isn't wrong that your normal TP set is fine. But I kinda like the following adjustments for a bit more consistency in jump TP.

ItemSet 375501
- Body options: Turms +1 > Malignance > Turms NQ > Horos +3 or Adhemar +1
- Hands/Legs have options with a lot of MA as well as high STP, so I don't go max STP (Malignance) there.
- Malignance feet if you aren't able to take advantage of Closed Postion
- Lots of ring options, could go all STP with something like Chirich +1 or Ilabrat, could go Epona/Gere if you prioritize multiattack, you might not want Petrov for high jump enmity shedding, etc.

I don't think it really makes sense to do this on dnc but on drg I do calculate out the amount of store tp needed on jumps taking into account tp bonus for my jumps to work out many scenarios looking for how much store tp I need to for example let me ws 3 normal melee hits faster off of just a double attack on a jump.

dnc doesn't get the jump tp bonus gear and with dual wield worrying about hit builds in general is already getting fairly extreme so most I would probably consider is just try to maximize average tp based on store tp and multi attack while maintaining acc.

i can see making a set for completion, but the last thing i want on dnc is another ja delay to deal with. wouldn't be using regular jump very much.