A Summoner's Gear Guide

言語: JP EN DE FR
2010-06-21
New Items
users online
フォーラム » FFXI » Jobs » Summoner » A Summoner's Gear Guide
A Summoner's Gear Guide
First Page 2 3 ... 19 20 21
 
Offline
Posts:
By 2019-05-02 18:22:09
 Undelete | Edit  | Link | 引用 | 返事
 
Post deleted by User.
Offline
Posts: 401
By Autocast 2019-05-02 19:06:26  
Asura.Avience said: »
Wrong Information

Stop posting.
[+]
 Asura.Chaostaru
Offline
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 695
By Asura.Chaostaru 2019-05-02 19:50:57  
Asura.Avience said: »
Your BP timer will ALWAYS be 25 seconds for the first BP when the avatar is casted
No BP timer should ever be 25sec, if it is then /quit smn..
Offline
Posts: 8843
By SimonSes 2019-05-02 21:32:06  
Asura.Avience said: »
total bs

I have never seen someone posting so much bs with so much confidence XD

You can only get -30sec from base 60sec with BP- gear and gifts. Rest is reduction from Avatar's Favor tiers and those tiers are based on Summoning Skill. Go educate yourself.
 Asura.Eiryl
Offline
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
user: Eiryl
By Asura.Eiryl 2019-05-02 22:12:10  
SimonSes said: »
Asura.Avience said: »
total bs

I have never seen someone posting so much bs with so much confidence XD

Katriina would like a word.
[+]
Offline
Posts: 709
By Tarage 2019-05-03 03:15:04  
Asura.Avience said: »
All the summoning skill you've been preaching is needed, is not. Your BP timer will ALWAYS be 25 seconds for the first BP when the avatar is casted then 21 seconds for everyone after that regardless of summoning skill. Summoning skill has absolutely nothing to do with it.

Since everyone else is mocking and I want people to actually have information here, no, this is incorrect. When using avatar's favor you want to have your summoming skill at or near 670. Why? Because the higher tier it is when you BP, the more delay reduction you get. What Avience is talking about is the old way favor used to work. It doesn't work that way anymore. Basically, at 670 skill you get -7 seconds without the Caller's/Beckoner's Horn boost. 575~669 you get -6, 512~574 you get -5, and so on. The tiers are all laid out here: https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Avatar%27s_Favor

You don't need to keep your skill gear on all the time, or even have it be part of your idle. Baayami is useful because it allows you to both max skill up to 670 AND get the - BP delay. You still need max gifts to pull off the -9 seconds though.
Offline
Posts: 694
By Wotasu 2019-05-03 05:12:59  
Tarage said: »
Asura.Avience said: »
All the summoning skill you've been preaching is needed, is not. Your BP timer will ALWAYS be 25 seconds for the first BP when the avatar is casted then 21 seconds for everyone after that regardless of summoning skill. Summoning skill has absolutely nothing to do with it.

Since everyone else is mocking and I want people to actually have information here, no, this is incorrect. When using avatar's favor you want to have your summoming skill at or near 670. Why? Because the higher tier it is when you BP, the more delay reduction you get. What Avience is talking about is the old way favor used to work. It doesn't work that way anymore. Basically, at 670 skill you get -7 seconds without the Caller's/Beckoner's Horn boost. 575~669 you get -6, 512~574 you get -5, and so on. The tiers are all laid out here: https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Avatar%27s_Favor

You don't need to keep your skill gear on all the time, or even have it be part of your idle. Baayami is useful because it allows you to both max skill up to 670 AND get the - BP delay. You still need max gifts to pull off the -9 seconds though.

Clearifying
When Under the effect of avatar's favor you want to have your summoming skill at or near 670 with Beckoners Horn+1 & BP delay-20 1/2 in BP-precast gear to reach 21s.
Offline
Posts: 23
By Lunablu 2019-05-03 07:33:29  
Thank you for the complilation Wotasu.

Makes me want to come back to the game so badly.

xoxo

Luna
 Asura.Frod
Offline
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1199
By Asura.Frod 2019-05-06 06:05:25  
on your siphon set, telchine's elemental siphon acts as straight +skill to siphon, so telchine beats all baayami slots that aren't above 35, offhand that leaves only baayami body +1.
Offline
Posts: 694
By Wotasu 2019-05-06 06:55:00  
Asura.Frod said: »
on your siphon set, telchine's elemental siphon acts as straight +skill to siphon, so telchine beats all baayami slots that aren't above 35, offhand that leaves only baayami body +1.

Thank you for the info! Since I dont own any +1's I couldnt test it w/o running massive numbers..
 Shiva.Xelltrix
Offline
サーバ: Shiva
Game: FFXI
user: Xelltrix
Posts: 393
By Shiva.Xelltrix 2019-05-06 10:28:41  
The Elemental Siphon page is inconsistent. It says elemental staves and obis don’t do anything in one part but uses them as a example in another part. I can probably test it when I get home if I remember, but I’ve been using my build based off the assumption they don’t change anything.
 Carbuncle.Papesse
Offline
サーバ: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
user: Papesse
Posts: 436
By Carbuncle.Papesse 2019-05-06 14:13:16  
Asura.Frod said: »
on your siphon set, telchine's elemental siphon acts as straight +skill to siphon, so telchine beats all baayami slots that aren't above 35, offhand that leaves only baayami body +1.
It's not exactly the same. Baayami Slops +1 (skill+35) beats Telchine (siphon+35).
[+]
 Siren.Kyte
Offline
サーバ: Siren
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3331
By Siren.Kyte 2019-05-06 14:43:51  
Shiva.Xelltrix said: »
The Elemental Siphon page is inconsistent. It says elemental staves and obis don’t do anything in one part but uses them as a example in another part. I can probably test it when I get home if I remember, but I’ve been using my build based off the assumption they don’t change anything.

The example is referring to Iridescence.
 Shiva.Xelltrix
Offline
サーバ: Shiva
Game: FFXI
user: Xelltrix
Posts: 393
By Shiva.Xelltrix 2019-05-06 15:35:24  
Yeah, I read that comment but it also mentioned obis and then backtracked on it in the same page so it really doesn’t seem consistent.
Offline
Posts: 694
By Wotasu 2019-05-06 16:22:37  
Shiva.Xelltrix said: »
Yeah, I read that comment but it also mentioned obis and then backtracked on it in the same page so it really doesn’t seem consistent.

Where does it back track? Ive just read the page and it seems consistant to me. I however had the Obi in my sets, just removed them after reading it again.

Day, weather, and the subsequent equipment which enhance their effects for siphon may either enhance siphon (matching element to the spirit) or decrease (opposing element) this factor.

Matching or Opposing Factor Value ±
Irrelevant Day, Weather, etc 0
Day 10%
Single Weather / Double Weather 10% / 15%
Iridescence from Iridal Staff / Chatoyant Staff 5% / 10%
Zodiac Ring * 3%
Twilight Cape 5%

*Zodiac Ring's +3% day bonus does not function during Lightsday and Darksday as they are not "Elemental Magically aligned" elements.
The Elemental Obis obtained from In the Name of Science have no effect on this ability as Day/Weather bonuses are always applied in a similar vein as Helix Spells.
Elemental Staves (eg. Thunder Staff) have no effect on this ability.
 Shiva.Xelltrix
Offline
サーバ: Shiva
Game: FFXI
user: Xelltrix
Posts: 393
By Shiva.Xelltrix 2019-05-06 16:27:33  
Oh, I think I confused myself looking at the suggested set on here and then reading that obis don’t do anything on the Siphon page and just put them together in my head when I was tabbing back and forth. So Obis don’t do anything but apparently Chatoyant does. Never had someone suggest that staff for Siphon before so maybe I’ll give it a shot.
 Asura.Frod
Offline
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1199
By Asura.Frod 2019-05-06 19:44:23  
Carbuncle.Papesse said: »
Asura.Frod said: »
on your siphon set, telchine's elemental siphon acts as straight +skill to siphon, so telchine beats all baayami slots that aren't above 35, offhand that leaves only baayami body +1.
It's not exactly the same. Baayami Slops +1 (skill+35) beats Telchine (siphon+35).

by how much? i was under the assumption that it's a straight 1 for 1 value to that formula.
 Asura.Pergatory
Offline
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
user: Pergatory
Posts: 1322
By Asura.Pergatory 2019-05-06 19:54:01  
I just re-tested these to make sure I'm not mistaken. Chatoyant Staff & Twilight Cape don't work on Elemental Siphon. Only Zodiac Ring does, and even that only on weekdays (not light/dark day).
 Asura.Elizabet
Offline
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
user: Elizabet
Posts: 496
By Asura.Elizabet 2019-05-06 21:16:02  
Asura.Pergatory said: »
Only Zodiac Ring does, and even that only on weekdays

Weather?
 Shiva.Xelltrix
Offline
サーバ: Shiva
Game: FFXI
user: Xelltrix
Posts: 393
By Shiva.Xelltrix 2019-05-06 22:28:45  
Okay, that's what I always thought. Good to have that reaffirmed.
 Asura.Pergatory
Offline
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
user: Pergatory
Posts: 1322
By Asura.Pergatory 2019-05-06 22:53:36  
Asura.Elizabet said: »
Asura.Pergatory said: »
Only Zodiac Ring does, and even that only on weekdays

Weather?
No that wasn't tested under weather, just matching day (it was Earthday).
VIP
Offline
Posts: 663
By Lili 2019-05-07 09:31:27  
Uh, so you're saying that Chatoyant and Cape don't work for the day bonus? Because Chatoyant definitely gives bonus under proper weather/storm.
 Carbuncle.Papesse
Offline
サーバ: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
user: Papesse
Posts: 436
By Carbuncle.Papesse 2019-05-07 12:51:02  
Asura.Frod said: »
Carbuncle.Papesse said: »
Asura.Frod said: »
on your siphon set, telchine's elemental siphon acts as straight +skill to siphon, so telchine beats all baayami slots that aren't above 35, offhand that leaves only baayami body +1.
It's not exactly the same. Baayami Slops +1 (skill+35) beats Telchine (siphon+35).

by how much? i was under the assumption that it's a straight 1 for 1 value to that formula.
2 MP on neutral day/weather. Baayami Cuffs +1 and Telchine are more or less equal too but depending on the gear/day/weather bonus Telchine almost always gets the upper hand.
 Asura.Pergatory
Offline
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
user: Pergatory
Posts: 1322
By Asura.Pergatory 2019-05-07 20:58:47  
Ok well I may have spoken too soon. I did more testing, and the only thing I'm really convinced of is that the spaghetti code is real.

Here's my base set for reference:
ItemSet 282184

Sorry in advance for using Zodiac Ring in all my tests, it didn't occur to me to test without that until I was basically done.

I tested using Water & Lightning Spirits. I tested each set under weather, day, and day+weather respectively.

The base set gives 896 / 918 / 994.

Regarding Twilight Cape:
If I use no cape at all, it gives 847 / 869 / 940.
If I swap to Twilight Cape, it gives 883 / 904 / 976.

So in all regards, it's worse than Conveyance Cape. However, I was wrong about it not working, Conveyance is just too good. Twilight is about +4% in this scenario. That's about in line with going from a +13% bonus (base bonus plus Zodiac Ring) to +18%. Again though, Conveyance is just better.

Regarding Chatoyant Staff:
If I use random staff (Grioavolr), it gives 878 / 887 / 957.
If I swap to Chatoyant, it gives 952 / 900 / 1049.

Again I was wrong, it does work even on day, just not very much. I think something must be broken there, it only gives 13 more MP on matching day (1.4% more), which is 18 MP behind Espiritus. With matching weather, it gives a whopping 74 more MP, which is 56 more than Espiritus! So Lili was right there, Chatoyant is massive with weather up. So I think the verdict on Chatoyant is: use with weather, but otherwise Espiritus for the skill. Also of note, a Chatoyant siphon with weather (but not day) is better than an Espiritus siphon with day (but not weather). So if you have weather up, it should take priority over day element when choosing which element to Siphon. That's going to take some getting used to...

In summary:

Chatoyant Staff: if weather yes, otherwise no
Zodiac Ring: if light/dark, no, otherwise yes
Twilight Cape: technically the only one that actually works like it should, but isn't good enough to use

Hooray spaghetti code!
[+]
 Asura.Elizabet
Offline
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
user: Elizabet
Posts: 496
By Asura.Elizabet 2019-05-07 21:38:27  
Asura.Pergatory said: »
Chatoyant Staff: if weather yes, otherwise no

So /sch meta?
VIP
Offline
Posts: 663
By Lili 2019-05-08 09:52:00  
There's something weird about those numbers you're getting. How much skill do you have in that set you posted? I'm counting 672 total skill, am I missing anything? Assuming 672 skill and master, you should be getting 672-50+110+60 = 792 base MP before weather/day bonuses, according to BGWiki formula. None of the numbers you posted match that :\

Also Chatoyant Staff should not be doing anything at all without weather match, as Iridescence is supposedly only a weather bonus... so your day only numbers with Chatoyant should be actually a bit lower than with Espiritus, to reflect the lower skill (~16-17 mp less depending on rounding) .

So, possibilities:
- BGwiki formula is currently wrong
- Siphon JP category is weird
- Chatoyant staff has some additional hidden bonus to Siphon, or maybe it's multiplicative instead of additive.
- I fail at math (always a possibility).

At this point I'd be curious to see what your base number actually is outside of both weather and day.

Asura.Elizabet said: »
So /sch meta?

SMN/SCH and magic bursting during CP parties was a ton of fun!
Having storms always available also lets you floor perpetuation cost with just two slots, Nirvana+Empy hands. Not sure how much use there is for that, but it is a thing that is possible.
 Asura.Pergatory
Offline
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
user: Pergatory
Posts: 1322
By Asura.Pergatory 2019-05-08 09:56:45  
Asura.Elizabet said: »
Asura.Pergatory said: »
Chatoyant Staff: if weather yes, otherwise no

So /sch meta?
Nah, no increase to Siphon is ever going to negate the benefit of Refresh & Convert. Even if you're in a fight where Convert is too risky, if you have Amalric Coif +1 then Refresh is +5 MP versus Sublimation's +2 so I don't see /SCH being competitive MP-wise. Plus you lose Cure IV, among other things.

And yeah Lili, I plan to do more testing without Zodiac Ring, so I'll make sure to check without day/weather bonus while I'm at it. This was just all the testing I had time for last night.
[+]
 Asura.Pergatory
Offline
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
user: Pergatory
Posts: 1322
By Asura.Pergatory 2019-05-08 19:51:38  
Summoning skill is indeed 672 in that set.

Siphon with no day/weather is 820 MP. Unequipping Zodiac Ring doesn't affect this, as expected.

Removing Espiritus drops it to 804. So I don't think summoning skill is exactly 1:1 with MP gained, as Papesse was hinting at earlier. It's slightly higher.

Chatoyant also gives no bonus, as expected. 804.

Also confirmed Zodiac Ring is keyed on day element only. With weather only, I gain 896 MP in the above set with or without Zodiac Ring.

Edit: Also tested no day/weather with feet removed. 760 MP, exactly 60 below where I am with the Siphon+60 from Beckoner's.

At first glance, it seems like the base MP is something like ((Skill-50) * 1.045). So every 22 skill = +23 base MP. That number seems a little random though, I'm sure I'm missing something.

Edit2: Tested another set, same as above but removed a bunch of skill gear. No day/weather, 536 skill, 677 MP. Formula fits for that number as well. ((536-50)*1.045)+110+60
Offline
Posts: 709
By Tarage 2019-05-08 23:07:37  
Why would you be using Espiritus and not Keraunos for siphon?
 Asura.Pergatory
Offline
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
user: Pergatory
Posts: 1322
By Asura.Pergatory 2019-05-08 23:17:46  
Honestly I don't carry Keraunos, I use Siphon so rarely that it doesn't seem worth the extra inventory space to me. Siphon is pretty much the one ability SMN has that I'm totally ok with not having the ideal set.
First Page 2 3 ... 19 20 21
Log in to post.