A Summoner's Gear Guide

Stop posting.

No BP timer should ever be 25sec, if it is then /quit smn..

I have never seen someone posting so much bs with so much confidence XD

You can only get -30sec from base 60sec with BP- gear and gifts. Rest is reduction from Avatar's Favor tiers and those tiers are based on Summoning Skill. Go educate yourself.

Katriina would like a word.

Since everyone else is mocking and I want people to actually have information here, no, this is incorrect. When using avatar's favor you want to have your summoming skill at or near 670. Why? Because the higher tier it is when you BP, the more delay reduction you get. What Avience is talking about is the old way favor used to work. It doesn't work that way anymore. Basically, at 670 skill you get -7 seconds without the Caller's/Beckoner's Horn boost. 575~669 you get -6, 512~574 you get -5, and so on. The tiers are all laid out here: https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Avatar%27s_Favor

You don't need to keep your skill gear on all the time, or even have it be part of your idle. Baayami is useful because it allows you to both max skill up to 670 AND get the - BP delay. You still need max gifts to pull off the -9 seconds though.

Clearifying
When Under the effect of avatar's favor you want to have your summoming skill at or near 670 with Beckoners Horn+1 & BP delay-20 1/2 in BP-precast gear to reach 21s.

Thank you for the complilation Wotasu.

Makes me want to come back to the game so badly.

xoxo

Luna

on your siphon set, telchine's elemental siphon acts as straight +skill to siphon, so telchine beats all baayami slots that aren't above 35, offhand that leaves only baayami body +1.

Thank you for the info! Since I dont own any +1's I couldnt test it w/o running massive numbers..

The Elemental Siphon page is inconsistent. It says elemental staves and obis don’t do anything in one part but uses them as a example in another part. I can probably test it when I get home if I remember, but I’ve been using my build based off the assumption they don’t change anything.

It's not exactly the same. Baayami Slops +1 (skill+35) beats Telchine (siphon+35).

The example is referring to Iridescence.

Yeah, I read that comment but it also mentioned obis and then backtracked on it in the same page so it really doesn’t seem consistent.

Where does it back track? Ive just read the page and it seems consistant to me. I however had the Obi in my sets, just removed them after reading it again.

Day, weather, and the subsequent equipment which enhance their effects for siphon may either enhance siphon (matching element to the spirit) or decrease (opposing element) this factor.

Matching or Opposing Factor Value ±
Irrelevant Day, Weather, etc 0
Day 10%
Single Weather / Double Weather 10% / 15%
Iridescence from Iridal Staff / Chatoyant Staff 5% / 10%
Zodiac Ring * 3%
Twilight Cape 5%

*Zodiac Ring's +3% day bonus does not function during Lightsday and Darksday as they are not "Elemental Magically aligned" elements.
The Elemental Obis obtained from In the Name of Science have no effect on this ability as Day/Weather bonuses are always applied in a similar vein as Helix Spells.
Elemental Staves (eg. Thunder Staff) have no effect on this ability.

Oh, I think I confused myself looking at the suggested set on here and then reading that obis don’t do anything on the Siphon page and just put them together in my head when I was tabbing back and forth. So Obis don’t do anything but apparently Chatoyant does. Never had someone suggest that staff for Siphon before so maybe I’ll give it a shot.

by how much? i was under the assumption that it's a straight 1 for 1 value to that formula.

I just re-tested these to make sure I'm not mistaken. Chatoyant Staff & Twilight Cape don't work on Elemental Siphon. Only Zodiac Ring does, and even that only on weekdays (not light/dark day).

Weather?

Okay, that's what I always thought. Good to have that reaffirmed.

No that wasn't tested under weather, just matching day (it was Earthday).

Uh, so you're saying that Chatoyant and Cape don't work for the day bonus? Because Chatoyant definitely gives bonus under proper weather/storm.

2 MP on neutral day/weather. Baayami Cuffs +1 and Telchine are more or less equal too but depending on the gear/day/weather bonus Telchine almost always gets the upper hand.

Ok well I may have spoken too soon. I did more testing, and the only thing I'm really convinced of is that the spaghetti code is real.

Here's my base set for reference:
ItemSet 282184

Sorry in advance for using Zodiac Ring in all my tests, it didn't occur to me to test without that until I was basically done.

I tested using Water & Lightning Spirits. I tested each set under weather, day, and day+weather respectively.

The base set gives 896 / 918 / 994.

Regarding Twilight Cape:
If I use no cape at all, it gives 847 / 869 / 940.
If I swap to Twilight Cape, it gives 883 / 904 / 976.

So in all regards, it's worse than Conveyance Cape. However, I was wrong about it not working, Conveyance is just too good. Twilight is about +4% in this scenario. That's about in line with going from a +13% bonus (base bonus plus Zodiac Ring) to +18%. Again though, Conveyance is just better.

Regarding Chatoyant Staff:
If I use random staff (Grioavolr), it gives 878 / 887 / 957.
If I swap to Chatoyant, it gives 952 / 900 / 1049.

Again I was wrong, it does work even on day, just not very much. I think something must be broken there, it only gives 13 more MP on matching day (1.4% more), which is 18 MP behind Espiritus. With matching weather, it gives a whopping 74 more MP, which is 56 more than Espiritus! So Lili was right there, Chatoyant is massive with weather up. So I think the verdict on Chatoyant is: use with weather, but otherwise Espiritus for the skill. Also of note, a Chatoyant siphon with weather (but not day) is better than an Espiritus siphon with day (but not weather). So if you have weather up, it should take priority over day element when choosing which element to Siphon. That's going to take some getting used to...

In summary:

Chatoyant Staff: if weather yes, otherwise no
Zodiac Ring: if light/dark, no, otherwise yes
Twilight Cape: technically the only one that actually works like it should, but isn't good enough to use

Hooray spaghetti code!

So /sch meta?

There's something weird about those numbers you're getting. How much skill do you have in that set you posted? I'm counting 672 total skill, am I missing anything? Assuming 672 skill and master, you should be getting 672-50+110+60 = 792 base MP before weather/day bonuses, according to BGWiki formula. None of the numbers you posted match that :\

Also Chatoyant Staff should not be doing anything at all without weather match, as Iridescence is supposedly only a weather bonus... so your day only numbers with Chatoyant should be actually a bit lower than with Espiritus, to reflect the lower skill (~16-17 mp less depending on rounding) .

So, possibilities:
- BGwiki formula is currently wrong
- Siphon JP category is weird
- Chatoyant staff has some additional hidden bonus to Siphon, or maybe it's multiplicative instead of additive.
- I fail at math (always a possibility).

At this point I'd be curious to see what your base number actually is outside of both weather and day.


SMN/SCH and magic bursting during CP parties was a ton of fun!
Having storms always available also lets you floor perpetuation cost with just two slots, Nirvana+Empy hands. Not sure how much use there is for that, but it is a thing that is possible.

Nah, no increase to Siphon is ever going to negate the benefit of Refresh & Convert. Even if you're in a fight where Convert is too risky, if you have Amalric Coif +1 then Refresh is +5 MP versus Sublimation's +2 so I don't see /SCH being competitive MP-wise. Plus you lose Cure IV, among other things.

And yeah Lili, I plan to do more testing without Zodiac Ring, so I'll make sure to check without day/weather bonus while I'm at it. This was just all the testing I had time for last night.

Summoning skill is indeed 672 in that set.

Siphon with no day/weather is 820 MP. Unequipping Zodiac Ring doesn't affect this, as expected.

Removing Espiritus drops it to 804. So I don't think summoning skill is exactly 1:1 with MP gained, as Papesse was hinting at earlier. It's slightly higher.

Chatoyant also gives no bonus, as expected. 804.

Also confirmed Zodiac Ring is keyed on day element only. With weather only, I gain 896 MP in the above set with or without Zodiac Ring.

Edit: Also tested no day/weather with feet removed. 760 MP, exactly 60 below where I am with the Siphon+60 from Beckoner's.

At first glance, it seems like the base MP is something like ((Skill-50) * 1.045). So every 22 skill = +23 base MP. That number seems a little random though, I'm sure I'm missing something.

Edit2: Tested another set, same as above but removed a bunch of skill gear. No day/weather, 536 skill, 677 MP. Formula fits for that number as well. ((536-50)*1.045)+110+60

Why would you be using Espiritus and not Keraunos for siphon?

Honestly I don't carry Keraunos, I use Siphon so rarely that it doesn't seem worth the extra inventory space to me. Siphon is pretty much the one ability SMN has that I'm totally ok with not having the ideal set.