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You'll Shoot Your Eye Out! - New FFXI RNG Guide
By Demhar 2020-01-23 09:57:43
Bahamut.Celebrindal said: »whereas nothing really competes with Gandiva's white damage- the individual arrows hit harder than anything we've got.
This has 0 sense.
R15 Gandiva with Chrono Arrow is 403 damage
R15 Armageddon with Chrono Bullet is 451 damage
Gandiva is 490 delay
Armageddon is 582 delay
Armageddon will hit harder per bullet, but you will shot slightly slower. Armageddon also has 70 AGI which helps a lot with dAGI. I don't see how Gandiva can be much better for white damage. It has slightly better DPS, but considering that 70 AGI on armageddon, Gandiva would barely win for white damage if win at all.
Don't forget about the speed of the bow. with cap snapshot {preshot set} and flury 2 and u usually at true shot distance you will be shooting lots of arrows that crit back to back and AM3 up you will be seeing 13-15k crits very often.
By Demhar 2020-01-23 10:23:05
That's almost the exact same set I use for Jishnu, except for different augment on the hat (str/Dex), and use Moonshade over Sherida. (That earring refuses to drop...)
Benefit of Gandiva is really the white damage. I often find myself just spamming arrows with decoy up and not really bothering with ws unless it makes a skillchain. (May be an overall dps loss, but at least it manages hate)
I did just recently finish my Armageddon, but I haven't played rng yet since finishing it. Curious to see how it fares, as it should pump some pretty good last stands or decent trueflights.
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testing shows difference between moonshade earring and Odr earring are as follows:
Same set up mentioned earlier:
ItemSet 367932
Odr Earring
25033
26171
24877
25092
25325
Moonshade Earring
21243
22719
23188
19475
21657
the 26k never showed up on moonshade earring i spammed about 20 WS with both earrings. With Odr earring lots of 25k and 26k pops ups.
By SimonSes 2020-01-23 10:33:07
With full buffs yes I do 40-70k Jishnus Radiances
I doubt that's the avg.
I took your set from above.
Base: 403
DEX: ~424
fSTR: 0 (this set has very low str and will have hard time to have positive fSTR on anything slightly serious)
True Shot: 15%
Crit Damage: 22%
/DRG: 7%
fTP: 5.55
pdif: 4.88125
Assuming everything crits and at perfect range for true shot I'm getting 33203 damage. That's also not avg too. That's spike with all hits crits. I dont see how you can get 40-70k. What am I missing? Well it will be slightly higher with escha buffs, but still not there.
Don't forget about the speed of the bow.
Are you serious lol? You quoted me, but havent read it? :D I specifically said about delay.
I will actually self correct myself. I wasn't aware that Archery has lower pdif cap than Marksmanship. With max buffs while reaching pdif cap, Armageddon has not only higher white damage per hit, but also actually higher white damage DPS than Gandiva.
[+]
サーバ: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 39
By Odin.Juliano 2020-01-23 11:09:40
Comparison for me would be between Sherida and Moonshade, not Odr and Moonshade. I also have to wonder how much better the Str/Dex hat would be over Dex/Agi. Are spreadsheets still a thing? I'd trust that more than attempting to make conclusions based off of small sample size tests.
Also, not sure if I just haven't been getting buffed "properly", but my Gandiva has been putting up terrible damage against wave 2 bosses, compared to other melee dds. Like embarrassing levels of damage lower. I am excited to try out Arma on my next run though.
By FaeQueenCory 2020-01-23 11:11:02
testing shows difference between moonshade earring and Odr earring are as follows:
Same set up mentioned earlier:
ItemSet 367932Wouldn't the better swap be Sherida=>Odr? So Moonshade+Odr?
It makes perfect sense as why Odr would be better than Moonshade, as 250 TP is just some crit rate, while Odr is a (probably) larger crit rate bonus AND 10 Dex (+8 base damage).
Whereas Sherida isn't really anything more than 5 STR and DEX (+6ish base damage).
Seems like the +?% crit rate from Moonshade would be better than Sherida?
By Demhar 2020-01-23 11:26:23
testing shows difference between moonshade earring and Odr earring are as follows:
Same set up mentioned earlier:
ItemSet 367932Wouldn't the better swap be Sherida=>Odr? So Moonshade+Odr?
It makes perfect sense as why Odr would be better than Moonshade, as 250 TP is just some crit rate, while Odr is a (probably) larger crit rate bonus AND 10 Dex (+8 base damage).
Whereas Sherida isn't really anything more than 5 STR and DEX (+6ish base damage).
Seems like the +?% crit rate from Moonshade would be better than Sherida?
Valid.
I'll test it tonight and post numbers again.
[+]
By Demhar 2020-01-23 11:31:18
With full buffs yes I do 40-70k Jishnus Radiances
I doubt that's the avg.
I took your set from above.
Base: 403
DEX: ~424
fSTR: 0 (this set has very low str and will have hard time to have positive fSTR on anything slightly serious)
True Shot: 15%
Crit Damage: 22%
/DRG: 7%
fTP: 5.55
pdif: 4.88125
Assuming everything crits and at perfect range for true shot I'm getting 33203 damage. That's also not avg too. That's spike with all hits crits. I dont see how you can get 40-70k. What am I missing? Well it will be slightly higher with escha buffs, but still not there.
Don't forget about the speed of the bow.
Are you serious lol? You quoted me, but havent read it? :D I specifically said about delay.
I will actually self correct myself. I wasn't aware that Archery has lower pdif cap than Marksmanship. With max buffs while reaching pdif cap, Armageddon has not only higher white damage per hit, but also actually higher white damage DPS than Gandiva.
A: Just because I quoted you doesn't mean I was trying to prove you wrong... I was agreeing with you and adding clarification to it.
B: This is not an argument which is better R15 Gandiva or R15 Arma..
By Aerison 2020-01-23 11:40:33
Is the Trueflight set on the front page still 5/5 Herc BiS?
By SimonSes 2020-01-23 11:41:31
A: Just because I quoted you doesn't mean I was trying to prove you wrong... I was agreeing with you and adding clarification to it.
B: This is not an argument which is better R15 Gandiva or R15 Arma..
Ok but you added clarification of 40-70k Jishnu and I dont see how thats possible. Can you add clarification where you get those numbers and with what buffs? Because they seems to be unrealistic.
B: This is not an argument which is better R15 Gandiva or R15 Arma..
Well the part about Gandiva vs Arma wasnt directed at you. It was just a follow up on what I wrote on previous page.
By Demhar 2020-01-23 11:55:38
A: Just because I quoted you doesn't mean I was trying to prove you wrong... I was agreeing with you and adding clarification to it.
B: This is not an argument which is better R15 Gandiva or R15 Arma..
Ok but you added clarification of 40-70k Jishnu and I dont see how thats possible. Can you add clarification where you get those numbers and with what buffs? Because they seems to be unrealistic.
B: This is not an argument which is better R15 Gandiva or R15 Arma..
Well the part about Gandiva vs Arma wasnt directed at you. It was just a follow up on what I wrote on previous page.
The only time i get to be buffed (sometimes) is in omen runs so the 40-70k is taken from Omen content.
Capped rattk / idris fury/frailty / capped crit / dex song x2/ boost dex / 40k is very common with spikes up to 70k~ on Ou
Also seen a lot of 40k on RuAn Bosses for Aeonic runs.
Pars sheets and real time testing can be varied. The best way to really get this down is to actually get the weapon and test yourself.
By Afania 2020-01-23 12:01:44
A: Just because I quoted you doesn't mean I was trying to prove you wrong... I was agreeing with you and adding clarification to it.
B: This is not an argument which is better R15 Gandiva or R15 Arma..
Ok but you added clarification of 40-70k Jishnu and I dont see how thats possible. Can you add clarification where you get those numbers and with what buffs? Because they seems to be unrealistic.
B: This is not an argument which is better R15 Gandiva or R15 Arma..
Well the part about Gandiva vs Arma wasnt directed at you. It was just a follow up on what I wrote on previous page.
The only time i get to be buffed (sometimes) is in omen runs so the 40-70k is taken from Omen content.
Capped rattk / idris fury/frailty / capped crit / dex song x2/ boost dex / 40k is very common with spikes up to 70k~ on Ou
Also seen a lot of 40k on RuAn Bosses for Aeonic runs.
Pars sheets and real time testing can be varied. The best way to really get this down is to actually get the weapon and test yourself.
Omen bosses takes extra damage depending on weapon type if I remember correctly. I think Ou takes increased dmg during certain phase too.
In escha your ws avg will be inflated because of vorseals.
I don't think 70k ws avg is norm for any physical ws. Even 40k ws is on very high end among all DDs without TP bonus/overflow. The 40k to 70k you were seeing is probably the result of battle mechanics.
By Demhar 2020-01-23 12:02:48
Is the Trueflight set on the front page still 5/5 Herc BiS?
This one is still wishy-washy one. I just got R15 Gastra and don't have much tests done. But if you really get the right augments on herc 5/5 i suppose this is the bis. The hope is for SE to make Empy Armor upgrade that will allow us to take MAB path and get some realistic results.
By Demhar 2020-01-23 12:06:35
A: Just because I quoted you doesn't mean I was trying to prove you wrong... I was agreeing with you and adding clarification to it.
B: This is not an argument which is better R15 Gandiva or R15 Arma..
Ok but you added clarification of 40-70k Jishnu and I dont see how thats possible. Can you add clarification where you get those numbers and with what buffs? Because they seems to be unrealistic.
B: This is not an argument which is better R15 Gandiva or R15 Arma..
Well the part about Gandiva vs Arma wasnt directed at you. It was just a follow up on what I wrote on previous page.
The only time i get to be buffed (sometimes) is in omen runs so the 40-70k is taken from Omen content.
Capped rattk / idris fury/frailty / capped crit / dex song x2/ boost dex / 40k is very common with spikes up to 70k~ on Ou
Also seen a lot of 40k on RuAn Bosses for Aeonic runs.
Pars sheets and real time testing can be varied. The best way to really get this down is to actually get the weapon and test yourself.
Omen bosses takes extra damage depending on weapon type if I remember correctly. I think Ou takes increased dmg during certain phase too.
In escha your ws avg will be inflated because of vorseals.
I don't think 70k ws avg is norm for any physical ws. Even 40k ws is on very high end among all DDs without TP bonus/overflow. The 40k to 70k you were seeing is probably the result of battle mechanics.
Most definitely. He asked for clarification and I provided.
By SimonSes 2020-01-23 12:07:45
The best way to really get this down is to actually get the weapon and test yourself.
Not everyone will go throw 300-400M of gils and 30h of farming to test a weapon :)
The only time i get to be buffed (sometimes) is in omen runs so the 40-70k is taken from Omen content.
Capped rattk / idris fury/frailty / capped crit / dex song x2/ boost dex / 40k is very common with spikes up to 70k~ on Ou
Also seen a lot of 40k on RuAn Bosses for Aeonic runs.
Im pretty sure that those 40k spikes are simply fighting something that takes additional damage from piercing (quite a lot of that in Omen) and spikes on Ou up to 99999 are easy after Ebullient Nullification.
In Escha with Escha buffs, boost DEX and DEX songs it should be possible to get 40k with crits on all hits, but thats also not an avg and that's very specific buffs.
By Aerison 2020-01-23 12:13:00
Is the Trueflight set on the front page still 5/5 Herc BiS?
This one is still wishy-washy one. I just got R15 Gastra and don't have much tests done. But if you really get the right augments on herc 5/5 i suppose this is the bis. The hope is for SE to make Empy Armor upgrade that will allow us to take MAB path and get some realistic results.
Would 3/5 with +3 head and legs be comparable?
サーバ: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1799
By Cerberus.Shadowmeld 2020-01-23 12:14:44
On top of omen bosses damage adjustments,
Flies/Leeches/Beetles/Worms/Hypogryphs/quite a few omen mobs have piercing weaknesses.
 Ramuh.Austar
サーバ: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 10481
By Ramuh.Austar 2020-01-23 12:38:31
The best way to really get this down is to actually get the weapon and test yourself. the only thing testing is good for is finding unknown variables or mechanics. it's much better to use math to find the best equipment for the given situation
[+]
By Demhar 2020-01-23 12:41:39
Is the Trueflight set on the front page still 5/5 Herc BiS?
This one is still wishy-washy one. I just got R15 Gastra and don't have much tests done. But if you really get the right augments on herc 5/5 i suppose this is the bis. The hope is for SE to make Empy Armor upgrade that will allow us to take MAB path and get some realistic results.
Would 3/5 with +3 head and legs be comparable?
At some point, once you get ~AGI10 + MAB+25~30~[if you get wsd% on top of that] on the head and legs the 10% WSD from +3 legs and hat falls short. I was recently playing around with that. I still use carmine+1 body and carmine +1 hands because the augments are not there yet to take over.
By Demhar 2020-01-23 12:47:24
The best way to really get this down is to actually get the weapon and test yourself. the only thing testing is good for is finding unknown variables or mechanics. it's much better to use math to find the best equipment for the given situation
you do whatever makes you happy! I'm not here to argue... simply sharing results.
By SimonSes 2020-01-23 12:49:43
At some point, once you get ~AGI10 + MAB+25~30~[if you get wsd% on top of that]
You should aim for MAB+5%WSD, not 10AGI+MAB. AGI is not a natural stat for herculean, so it will be rare to get AGI and VERY rare to get AGI with good mab/macc. Also 5%WSD is simply better than 10AGI.
By Demhar 2020-01-23 12:58:15
At some point, once you get ~AGI10 + MAB+25~30~[if you get wsd% on top of that]
You should aim for MAB+5%WSD, not 10AGI+MAB. AGI is not a natural stat for herculean, so it will be rare to get AGI and VERY rare to get AGI with good mab/macc. Also 5%WSD is simply better than 10AGI.
Certainly,and again, whatever augments you get if you're not sure, just go test it out see how it compares with +3 hat and +3 legs.
[+]
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 267
By Asura.Outlawbruce 2020-01-23 13:06:50
At some point, once you get ~AGI10 + MAB+25~30~[if you get wsd% on top of that]
You should aim for MAB+5%WSD, not 10AGI+MAB. AGI is not a natural stat for herculean, so it will be rare to get AGI and VERY rare to get AGI with good mab/macc. Also 5%WSD is simply better than 10AGI.
At some point you have to ask yourself though. Is spending 10-20k stones for 30+macc, 30+mab and 5% wsd worth it over carmine that you can have instantly and have 38macc, 42mab.
Without DM augs you wont be the magic acc. Can get super close though.
Hercs(vest) only benefit that I can see is 3STP for overflow. 7 more AGI. Is that really worth spending (asuras rate) 2k fern stones (20mil) to 10k fern stones (100mil)? Honestly, could be way more based off luck.
[+]
By Demhar 2020-01-23 13:14:47
Asura.Outlawbruce said: »At some point, once you get ~AGI10 + MAB+25~30~[if you get wsd% on top of that]
You should aim for MAB+5%WSD, not 10AGI+MAB. AGI is not a natural stat for herculean, so it will be rare to get AGI and VERY rare to get AGI with good mab/macc. Also 5%WSD is simply better than 10AGI.
At some point you have to ask yourself though. Is spending 10-20k stones for 30+macc, 30+mab and 5% wsd worth it over carmine that you can have instantly and have 38macc, 42mab.
Without DM augs you wont be the magic acc. Can get super close though.
Hercs(vest) only benefit that I can see is 3STP for overflow. 7 more AGI. Is that really worth spending (asuras rate) 2k fern stones (20mil) to 10k fern stones (100mil)? Honestly, could be way more based off luck.
exactly... this is why I'm still comfortable with carmine+1 body and hands
サーバ: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1797
By Bahamut.Celebrindal 2020-01-23 13:24:16
don't forget that a capped augment Samnhua Coat from Sinister Reign is still a very solid option as well for Trueflight Builds, in particular if you already had one from a previous job.
A herculean vest has higher potential, but as mentioned...what are you willing to go thru for it? I'll just keep throwing herc vests at him during DM campaigns and hope for a glimpse of paradise from the SE gods.
[+]
サーバ: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 39
By Odin.Juliano 2020-01-23 21:28:45
I use gyve doublet for tf/wf. :(
By Demhar 2020-01-24 00:46:08
As promised, went back in again and did further testing with the same set up and the results are the following.
ItemSet 370990
22142
22383
24870
22073
18853
17359
19856
21235
17134
15029
ItemSet 367932
23465
20957
20601
26072
22904
20573
22859
19881
25885
23242
The difference very subtle but Sherida Earring pulls ahead. Hope this was somewhat helpful.
By SimonSes 2020-01-24 03:06:11
As promised, went back in again and did further testing with the same set up and the results are the following.
ItemSet 370990
22142
22383
24870
22073
18853
17359
19856
21235
17134
15029 23465
20957
20601
26072
22904
20573
22859
19881
25885
23242
The difference very subtle but Sherida Earring pulls ahead. Hope this was somewhat helpful.
The difference isnt Subtle. 2nd set has 2500 higher avg. Which already shows that this amount of sample is not enough, because 2500 damage is nowhere near the real difference.
That being said, I need to ask you:
1. Do you control the lvl of those bats? Apex bats in Dho gates can have from 128 to 130lv. Testing on 128lv vs 130lv would be fail.
2. Do you always WS at exactly the same TP? If yes, how much TP it is?
By FaeQueenCory 2020-01-24 08:25:30
As promised, went back in again and did further testing with the same set up and the results are the following.
ItemSet 370990
22142
22383
24870
22073
18853
17359
19856
21235
17134
15029
ItemSet 367932
23465
20957
20601
26072
22904
20573
22859
19881
25885
23242
The difference very subtle but Sherida Earring pulls ahead. Hope this was somewhat helpful. 20k v 22.5k rough average. Though this then brings into consideration if Begrudging or Ilabrat is the better ring. Up to 5% crit rate v 10 DEX (+8 base damage).
Since the earrings were +?% crit v +6ish base damage... Similar results may happen for the rings too.
Su3 feet might be worth looking into as well, since they have the same or more crit rate as the relic feet, 10 less DEX, but an additional +3/4% double shot and +2/3% triple shot to proc. The additional hits may make up for the loss of 8 base damage.
サーバ: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1797
By Bahamut.Celebrindal 2020-01-24 08:46:00
20k v 22.5k rough average. Though this then brings into consideration if Begrudging or Ilabrat is the better ring. Up to 5% crit rate v 10 DEX (+8 base damage).
Since the earrings were +?% crit v +6ish base damage... Similar results may happen for the rings too.
Su3 feet might be worth looking into as well, since they have the same or more crit rate as the relic feet, 10 less DEX, but an additional +3/4% double shot and +2/3% triple shot to proc. The additional hits may make up for the loss of 8 base damage.
My AM3 sets for Armageddon and Gandiva include Oshosi Leggings+1, but for my Jishnu's set, its Thereiod Greaves. Its 4% vs 10% crit RATE, but comes with that lovely +5% crit DAMAGE. Paired with other +crit damage gear like Darraigner's Brais and you can build a pretty spooky set with higher peaks than a pure crit rate based set, but you will lose some consistency.
 Asura.Ajirha
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 140
By Asura.Ajirha 2020-01-24 08:46:50
are you completely disregarduing the 81 ranged attack from the relic feet? oshosi only has the racc, not the ratt. so bit higher chances of multi hits vs 10 less dex and 81 ratt.
i'm a bit curious as to what we consider here.
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