You'll Shoot Your Eye Out! - New FFXI RNG Guide

These are some of my Magical WS feet...I still toy between these and some +5% WSD ones I have, but usually come back to these. There the best in terms of raw MAB I've personally see Oseem give out during a DM campaign.

Cele, that MAB is so sexy! Definately great stuff for all magical WS.

For magical WS, roughly 3 MAB matches around 1 WSD. Thus, your herc pants gives around 15% WSD potency for unresisted magical WS.

Watch how 17 MAB slightly beats an extra 5% WSD in my COR set:

Was discussing the MAB to WSD conversion with friends. Please note mileage may vary depending on factors like job, day, weather, gear set in general and WS when discussing MAB to WSD conversions. The range varies between 3-4 MAB to 1 WSD with magic WS available to RNG & CORs. I know Cele's gear sets are very close to mine.

Aboout to test these bad boys

Carmine +1
AGI +12 MAB+42 0 WSD

Hercuclean Gloves
AGI+ 8 MAB +17 10 WSD

129 Apex Crab @ 300TP Trueflight
Carmine +1 46,758
Herculean Gloves 47,106

And the gloves has 17MACC over Carmine.

So I think I am on board with the general assessment 1wsd = 3-4mab

So true. It really boils down to your entire set, and a balance of everything involved- AGI, MAB, Macc, WSD, even Magic Damage to a smaller extent. Its very safe to assume that 1 WSD = 3-4 MAB, however in terms of a direct comparison it comes down to that balance.

For the longest time I ran with a Trueflight set that was very heavy on WSD- to the tune of pushing 35-40 WSD. AF+3 head, a +6 WSD Herc Body, Relic+3 legs, 9 WSD Herc Feet, Ishvara Earring. It still was solid augments in terms of MAB on the herc pieces...if I recall them both were at least +20 MAB. However, switching to a +33 MAB/2 WSD herc head and the +47 MAB feet above, keeping around 25 WSD instead resulted in much better numbers.

129 Apex Crab @ 300TP Trueflight
Carmine +1 46,758
Herculean Gloves 47,106

And the gloves has 17MACC over Carmine.

Yeah its amazing how godly they looks at first, then you realize they are barely an damage upgrade over Carmine +1. Then you realize even further, that they are just about as good as than theoretical max for Fern stone (+35MAB, 4%WSD).

And is AGL:MAB close to 1:1?

Edit: Answering my own question as I had some time to run some numbers over the weekend lol.

For truelight at least, it looks like AGL:MAB doesnt change so much with TP, mythic bonus or gear and was around the 0.78-0.81 AGL to 1 MAB range in terms of damage increase. On average about 0.8 AGL per MAB or 5 AGL is equivilant to 4 MAB.

In the same tests, I had ~3.3 MAB to 1 WSD for low end sets, 3.8 MAB to 1 WSD for high end sets, and ~4.3 MAB to 1 WSD for high end + r15 mythic bonus. As stated before the ratios will change slightly depending on the values of the others stats in a set.

Opinion on AM3 midshot?

Oneiros/Nusku vs Jupiter's Staff/Brave grip


+10%Crit Damage
+20 R.Acc
+20 R.Atk
STP+3

VS

+15% Crit Rate
+3% Crit Damage

Crit rate from a weapon is only for the weapon if i remember right

oh you're right, thanks

That's only true for level 75-era stuff- so while it doesn't work in the case of Jupiter's, something like Fettering sword (for COR) can work.


Regardless, Oneiros/Nusku is the best option unless you happen to be /NIN for whatever reason.

Was thinking and wondering if anyone had done any testing on if ammo buffs carry over to other weapons. For instance, if I were to get the TP bonus bow and get the STR+10 WSD 20% arrow would I get the 20% WSD on Savage Blade?

Edit: Tested with MAB and Aeolian Edge and that worked so I'm assuming that the WSD+20% will carry over to Savage Blade. Just have to figure out how to make up for RNG's lack of accuracy on AF lol.

Assuming you mean just for the WS itself, with Orion+3 head (and Arcadian +3 legs) not having any melee Acc... since for a melee TP set, you would be better off with Malignance, Adhemar, and Meghanada pieces.

For WS, I'm thinking a set something like:
ItemSet 370485

If using a DW sub, the offhand Tauret would help a lot on Acc concerns. If doing a single wield sub (which might be good for something like /DRG or /WAR), Acc will be a bit harder to deal with.

I don't think the Acc loss is THAT bad on head/legs, since the probable alternatives are Herculean Helm/Trousers... which also have no base acc. I have an Acc+15/WSD+9% Herc Helm, and I'd still go Orion for the significantly higher STR/MND and 1% more WSD.

If you really needed Acc swaps, I'd look more to slots like accessories. Combatant's Torque, Grunfeld Rope, Telos Earring (over Ishvara). And perhaps Regal is a better call than one WSD ring here (for set Acc boost), though if you have 2 WSD rings that's prob better if you can swing the Acc.

At any rate, this makes me excited to add the arrow to my DI list. And gives me a little time to build a damn TP Bonus bow... :P

@Capuchin- RNG definitely benefits from its "Accuracy Bonus VI" job trait, granting an additional +73 racc AND acc, which should allow us to get some leeway in sets for "off" weapons like sword.

Although, I still would opt for some +acc swaps in your WS set to compensate for our D sword ranking. Definitely pair ONE WSD ring with Regal Ring for set bonus and acc/stats on the ring itself. I often use the Telos/Grunfeld swaps you mention even on COR for a functioning Savage Blade set on "legitimate" content.

Doing those three swaps also would allow useage of Odium offhand over Tauret. Similar TP gain to Tauret, and it makes up the missing ~30 acc compared to Tauret (I'm looking at the 13dex vs 15 dex of Odium vs Tauret as essentially equal, but am considering the +250 skill vs +242 skill in favor of Tauret-and of course the +40 acc vs +13 acc).

Why? This gives you a WS stat modifier of +13 STR and +13 MND vs just +15 MND on the Tauret.

I gotta admit, though, while I don't mind being a pure "melee" DD on COR these days, I really don't like the idea of being a pure "melee" DD on RNG, completely giving up the ability to shoot accurately because of using the non-iLvl TP bonus bow. Is interesting at best.

RNG is on blurred +1 isn't it? On COR odium doesn't always beat blurred+1 (more so if player swap to DT set at one point of fight). And since both jobs are nearly identical when it comes to gears I doubt odium is also better than blurred +1 on rng.

I would certainly use odium if I'm closing SC in a group multistep though.

Why? I've considered RNG to be secretly one of the better melees since Naegling came out, as Naegling+Kraken should be quite potent on sufficiently weak enemies or when sufficiently buffed. COR already parses quite well, but doesn't have the benefit of all the PDL traits RNG gets nor the TP gain Kraken affords. Now with the ammo, it should be pretty potent even without considering Kraken and the necessary excessive accuracy you'd need for it.

Agree. I've seen people that refuse to melee on RNG just because it feels "wrong". I can't help but wonder why.

With how niche ranged setup is these days if I'm RNG main then playing rng as a melee job is probably the only way to play it as often as possible.

Even in melee pt shooting still has a niche use. Such as gaining TP when mob uses perfect dodge, shoot when RNG is weakened, getting extra TP round before mob position themselves etc.

A melee rng don't necessarily melee 100% of time and never shoot.
Since RNG has much higher racc it's entirely possible to land shots using a none ilv weapon in situations that favors ranged attack TP gain(slow, weakened etc). Even if you can't land shots it isn't tough to swap weapons with a weapon toggle.

COR is considered a melee ranged hybrid DD these days. Looking at rng gears and JA rng should be able to do both better than COR. So why limit a jobs potential because of "RNG should shoot" kind of mindset.

First: Didn't quote it, but your comment about offhanding Blurred+1 in a Savage Blade build is certainly what I do on Corsair to take advantage of TP overflow, and has sufficient accuracy related to it for Rangers to effectively use. I guess I thought of Odium strictly in terms of the potency of Savage Blade(based purely on stat modifiers), but not remembering that for the overflow and WS frequency Blurred+1 would trounce it.

Now: Yeah, I'm one of those "why melee on RNG, it feels wrong" dudes. And honestly, it boils down to this: If I wanted to melee, I'd bring a job better suited for it, and if I wanted to primarily melee while maintaining the ability to shoot, I'd go Corsair over Ranger any day.

Yeah, it can be done, and on low enough level stuff, it can be done incredibly well. Floors in Omen come to mind- although I'm always meleeing with tauret main hand for Aeolian Cleaving in that situation. A Savage build of Naegling+KClub sounds like a helluva lot of fun, no doubt (I never got to enjoy the kclub sniper shot builds back in the day, leveled/geared RNG too late^^).

I'm just always thinking about what I can pull of during something of the level of HELMs,Dyna wave2-3, etc. I'm not really thinking about devising sets just for more "fodder" level stuff to speed things up by a few seconds here and there. Yes, its in pure numbers probably a better approach (and I only say probably because I haven't done any true testing, not out of doubt- personally I can see it working great in those moments).

Ranger is a job I've built for my personal usage in large scale content while fully buffed, or close to it. I don't use it while soloing, I rarely use it in low-man setups outside of 1 or two fights in a pickup environment. Its why everyone I hung out with on Leviathan and a lot of my new friends on Bahamut knows that I call RNG my "Princess" job, reminiscent of "The Princess and the Pea"...everything has to be JUST RIGHT and then watch out!

As such, I don't often push what's capable for RNG in the solo arena. I'm not saying that a melee RNG should only be useful in those moments. I'm only saying that the way I choose to play RNG is when I'm in situations where ranged damage is the best option, because its often the best raw damage dealer in those situations (barring Leaden Spam when TF spam isnt' equivalent, we'll yield the darkness to the corsairs, let us shine in the bright purity of Trueflight^^).

So go for that melee build, and I'm excited to see how it fares in higher level content situations. Could be a situation where I have a huge blind spot due to my mental concept of "what a Ranger is" and it needs to be taught a lesson.

To steal from Capuchin- Happy PewPew Year everyone!

This right here. It isn't that RNG is incapable of doing good melee-centric damage, but if I wanted to do that, I'd be coming on my SAM or MNK or something... Jobs that do even more melee damage. RNG is also less sturdy than basically any other melee job, even with Malignance in play (other light DDs have Malignance too, the heavy DDs tend to have excellent hybrid sets).

RNG brings nothing unique to the table as a melee. It DOES bring something unique to the table when melee is less viable and you want to do damage from a distance. Hence, pew pew away.

COR is very different, since it also provides buffs. Fitting your damage into the party however it works best in the given scenario (melee or ranged) is the decision you make once you already committed to wanting a job that brings buffs + DPS.

Only time RNG would be able to shine as a melee is an event where you need to be ranged for a significant chunk of the time, but at other times melee is best. That's pretty rare. It won't happen in Ambuscade or pop NMs.

Omen, like Cele said, is one such case - but... it's Omen, you can manage with anything? Cool that RNG has the melee option there on non-boss floors (and then shoot on midbosses/bosses), but overall kinda irrelevant to optimize for omen trash floors.

Dyna[D] is kinda stretching it to me. RNG is totally fine, and you might want to melee wave 1~2 mobs if you happen to bring the job because you want to farm on it, earn neck points, whatever. So again, nice to have the option and I wouldn't dismiss the utility of a Savage setup. But if you're trying to "optimize" things from an overall alliance composition perspective, you really don't need much ranged damage in Dyna - it can be pretty helpful on wave 2 bosses, but otherwise unnecessary. So, bring a better melee job if you really want to melee. Or bring a COR if you want those big magical ranged WS (and get buffs along with that damage). There's really not a huge draw for "slightly worse melee job that can flip to ranged for a short time".

And a double post because I was thinking more...

Another big deal is that with Double Shot up, RNG generates TP WAY faster by shooting than meleeing. With a decent Samurai Roll, I can WS, then a single attack round with Double Shot proc (at an 80%+ rate) will give me enough TP to WS again. And RNG can keep Double Shot up 50% of the time, without accounting for Random Deal/WC). That's way faster than meleeing for TP for another WS, so Savage has to be a LOT better than the alternative in order to make up that ground.

COR gets Triple Shot, but that's only 30% of the time (90 sec of every 5min, again without JA resets). So, similar benefit to shooting for TP for the time that it's up, but that's a lower amount of the time.

Perhaps there's some optimizing to do where shooting for TP is better during Double/Triple Shot, and meleeing when it's down.

kraken would be a possible viability as well for melee. i don't know if thorny got around to trying it since my account isn't active atm, but we planned on kraken even the w3 boss since you can melee the adds without putting them into 1H range before you can one shot them, it would also work great for farming runs

the malignance set is what makes it worth using, store tp, accuracy and all the defensive stats. otherwise you should just shoot.

ItemSet 369911

So basically 2004 era Kclub RNG "reforged". Melee for TP, ranged WS. Maybe that does make some melee TP setups viable.

We were talking more about Naegling SB setups though, particularly with the new WSD+20% ammo and TP Bonus bow. So a little different, but I guess potentially would still work with /NIN or /DNC and offhand Kclub. Whether that's better than ranged WS is still the big question though (or at least, in what situations that really makes sense).

Has anyone tested Hauksbok Arrow (https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Hauksbok_Arrow) yet?

I haven't been able to play much the past two months so I haven't bought anything with the new DI points. Obviously bow RNG hasn't been in style for quite a while, but can +20% WSD on a D110 rACC+30 arrow change that?

If you do test it, do remember that Unlimited Shot shares a timer with Double Shot.

The only thing to test is whether it works on non ranged ws. Unlimited shot will never be worth using until they decouple it from double shot. (They did it with dragoon jumps so there is some precedence.)

Most Rangers were expecting this change with the "Ranger update", yet we didn't get it. Yet another failed opportunity by SE...two huge fixes that we hoped for- fix archery (if nothing else, do what they did for DRK and Scythe would have helped) and split up Unlimited Shot/Double Shot.

Honestly, before the release of these DI ammos, there hadn't been a use for Unlimited Shot since the Delve Bullet. I cant' see giving up Double Shot with everything they've done for it (Oshosi/Relic+3 body). I REALLY doubt there's any boost to a single weaponskill that will be a DPS improvement over 90 seconds of double shot.

Yeah, it comes down to:

Unlimited Shot (with special ammo):
One really strong WS every 3min. Additionally, unless someone confirms otherwise, it's probably safer to assume that Hauksbok's WSD+20% is "normal" WSD that applies to first hit only, and not every hit of the WS. So, unless you're using a single-hit WS (Flaming Arrow? LOL Namas?), your actual average return is going to be something less than 120% of a "normal" WS for stuff like JR or Apex Arrow.

Hauksbok DMG is similar to other high end arrows, so the WSD really is the main difference:
Chrono (Fail-not): DMG:110, Racc+20, Ratk+20
Artemis (Gandiva): DMG:101, Racc+25, Ratk+35
Hauksbok: DMG:110, STR+10, Racc+30, WSD+20%

Double Shot:
(1) SEVERAL additional "normal strength" WS during the same timeframe; something on the order of 5-10 more WS per each Double Shot depending on double shot procs/gear and STP. If you have a decent Samurai Roll, I'd expect something closer to double figures for # of additonal WS;

(2) PLUS the significant extra white damage from Double Shot procs, which may be enough by itself (especially with Gandiva AM3) to outweigh the single strong Unlimited Shot WS.

Doesn't take a genius to realize that giving up Double Shot is straight up insane. Only way Unlimited Shot will ever be worth using is if they uncouple the shared timer.


As I noted above, the other thing that would at least be worth knowing is whether this is "normal" WSD that applies only to first hit, or if for some reason it works more like the associated WS bonuses on Ambu/RMEA weapons and DRG's new WS Damage Boost trait (which apply to all hits of a WS). I would assume it's the former, but would be interesting to see confirmation.

Agreed with your overall take though - this looks more like a Savage Blade ammo than something that would actually make Unlimited Shot worth using.

Or when you Melee for TP and do ranged WS :)

Although flaming arrow is the only special bow WS that I can think of atm. And it's probably not better than using hot shot with gun bullet instead.

That being said new bolt has 10 more AGI than quelling so it can be paired with mythic for a bit stronger TF every once a while in melee mode too.