Ambuscade Volume 1 - December 2018

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Ambuscade Volume 1 - December 2018
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By Pantafernando 2018-12-13 06:12:12  
Hi.

Anyone have a guesstimation on the mobs HP for D and N.

Thanks in advance
 Asura.Eiryl
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By Asura.Eiryl 2018-12-13 07:10:16  
N is 12,000,000 give or take

Scoreboard skillchains don't always properly add up.
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 Asura.Bayonette
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By Asura.Bayonette 2018-12-13 07:21:29  
Asura.Saevel said: »
Killing the first wave of adds makes this a joke as going from 80% to 0% without endeath or triple reversal is more random then going from 30% to 0%. Triple reversal is random and will straight up kill someone if it hits them and is synched with the MB's TP somehow. The vast vast majority of wipes I've seen have been to a badly timed triple reversal dealing 8K damage to either the kiter or one of the DD's. If you instead kill the first wave and kite the second, even if someone gets killed to bad luck you can still pull a win off.

This was my experience last night. On, N, feeling out the fight, we only won when we killed first set of adds and RUN kited the last set while we zerged boss after 30%. If RUN held the adds with geo wilt, still got dropped, and he was a decked out epeo.

Nin nin run cor geo rdm

One fight triple reversal killed 2 of us and we still won. Other times we all lived.
 Fenrir.Kaldaek
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By Fenrir.Kaldaek 2018-12-13 07:39:47  
We spammed some D last night. NIN SAM COR BRD RUN RDM

prebuffed acession/perp regen5 and swapped onto RDM

RUN kited the adds (first wave) while the rest focused on the boss at the entry spot. Very straight forward fight. If all melee maintain maximum shadows then there is no trouble.

Outside of slow/para and haste2 . Cures weren't used at all. 6-8 minute clears.
 Asura.Sechs
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By Asura.Sechs 2018-12-13 07:42:44  
Fenrir.Kaldaek said: »
If all melee maintain maximum shadows then there is no trouble.
Tell me about it /rolleyes
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 Fenrir.Kaldaek
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By Fenrir.Kaldaek 2018-12-13 07:44:23  
Asura.Sechs said: »
Fenrir.Kaldaek said: »
If all melee maintain maximum shadows then there is no trouble.
Tell me about it /rolleyes

Im unsure if you're in agreement or disagreement. But it's definitely the case lol
 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2018-12-13 07:52:15  
Asura.Sechs said: »
Fenrir.Kaldaek said: »
If all melee maintain maximum shadows then there is no trouble.
Tell me about it /rolleyes

All you gotta do to walk in space is just not die, duh!

Funny thing is lack of shadows isn't whats going to kill someone, it's triple reversal for 8~30K damage. If just one add paths wrong and walks within 15~20 (haven't nailed down the range) of the NM, then triple reversal just became a thing. It's pure luck cause SE's pathing has always been wonky with vertices and the floor isn't even inside there. NM only gets en-death when adds are out, and they are rather squishy and die really fast.

100~80 -> Beat on NM
80 -> Kill Adds
80~30 -> Beat on NM
30 -> Kiter runs Adds in circle with Benny Hill music playing
30~0 -> Beat on NM

Were beating it easily with the following
BLU/NIN
BLU/NIN
DD COR/NIN
DD BRD/NIN
WHM (someone's mule)
PLD (kiter)

The entire "don't heal under x%" is *** in this version, it barely heals at all and we quickly abandoned that idea. Basically the entire fight is just beat down on the main guy with one interlude to deal with the first set of adds and some benny hill antics near the end.
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 Asura.Sechs
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By Asura.Sechs 2018-12-13 07:55:30  
Fenrir.Kaldaek said: »
Asura.Sechs said: »
Fenrir.Kaldaek said: »
If all melee maintain maximum shadows then there is no trouble.
Tell me about it /rolleyes

Im unsure if you're in agreement or disagreement. But it's definitely the case lol
Sorta both.
I agree this approach is not really that complicated, in theory.
Worked fine for me last time this Ambu was up. Farmed a load of points doing VD.
We had a few fails here and there, but mostly it was working fine.

This time around, with the very same crew, we can't tell what's going on but there's *always* at least a Triple Reversal *** the tank.
D, VD, barely makes a difference anyway. It annoys me! I'm not the one kiting so I can't say what's going wrong, but the same people made it work fine last time! /shacklesfist


We tried the kill first wave, which is better but takes too much time for our tastes.
We gonna try the Tank /SMN approach next I guess.
 Fenrir.Kaldaek
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By Fenrir.Kaldaek 2018-12-13 07:55:48  
oh i see. We didn't see triple reversal at all. as rdm i silenced the astrologers and the RUN kited. Then the boss died.. That was all tbh.
 Asura.Sechs
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By Asura.Sechs 2018-12-13 07:57:26  
Asura.Saevel said: »
Funny thing is lack of shadows isn't whats going to kill someone, it's triple reversal for 8~30K damage.
Yeah! I mean I keep reading comments of people treating this boss like it's dangerous or something.
I mean maybe for non-NIN main I could understand, but if you bring NIN main this boss is an absolute cakewalk.
Yeah I mean of course you can occasionally die because you lose attention for a second or for bad luck, but srsly this boss is super easy with NINs.
That's not the dangerous/complicated part, it's the bloody Triple Reversal from adds shotting tank! lol xD
 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2018-12-13 07:57:30  
Fenrir.Kaldaek said: »
Asura.Sechs said: »
Fenrir.Kaldaek said: »
If all melee maintain maximum shadows then there is no trouble.
Tell me about it /rolleyes

Im unsure if you're in agreement or disagreement. But it's definitely the case lol

It's not, shadows won't be what determines a win or loss, it's whether the mobs and NM gets access to triple reversal.

That's the only thing that will kill you in this fight, it deals 8~30K damage, ignores shadows, ignores migawari, ignores EA and scherzo. It's a flat out "you lose, game over" move. If it hits your kiter a wipe will ensue, if it hits a DPS the fight just got really dangerous as bouncing hate is important to keeping damage up.

To demonstrate this I once spent the entire fight using just Occultation and not caring about shadows except for while we killed the first wave adds, since he has endeath during that time, though his attacks are really slow and has no regain.
 Fenrir.Kaldaek
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By Fenrir.Kaldaek 2018-12-13 08:00:20  
I will reach out to the kiter and ask what was special. But tbh it was just kiting around all three pillars with the astrologers silenced. Nothing out of the ordinary. We ambued for acouple hours and didnt see triple reversal once.
 Asura.Sechs
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By Asura.Sechs 2018-12-13 08:02:06  
Not sure if boss has regain or not (hard to stick Yurin, altough possible) but adds definitely do.

Our tank claims he got hit by Triple reversal at 22 yalms but you can never be sure about that. It was 22 yalms on his client for sure, but who knows what the distance was when the TP move was processed and calculated on the server. I'd say the range of Triple Reversal is 20 yalms or lower.
 Asura.Sechs
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By Asura.Sechs 2018-12-13 08:02:49  
Fenrir.Kaldaek said: »
I will reach out to the kiter and ask what was special. But tbh it was just kiting around all three pillars with the astrologers silenced. Nothing out of the ordinary. We ambued for acouple hours and didnt see triple reversal once.
Was your tank speedhacking with third party tools?

We don't know the name anyway, guess you can say safely!
 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2018-12-13 08:04:50  
Asura.Sechs said: »
Fenrir.Kaldaek said: »
Asura.Sechs said: »
Fenrir.Kaldaek said: »
If all melee maintain maximum shadows then there is no trouble.
Tell me about it /rolleyes

Im unsure if you're in agreement or disagreement. But it's definitely the case lol
Sorta both.
I agree this approach is not really that complicated, in theory.
Worked fine for me last time this Ambu was up. Farmed a load of points doing VD.
We had a few fails here and there, but mostly it was working fine.

This time around, with the very same crew, we can't tell what's going on but there's *always* at least a Triple Reversal *** the tank.
D, VD, barely makes a difference anyway. It annoys me! I'm not the one kiting so I can't say what's going wrong, but the same people made it work fine last time! /shacklesfist


We tried the kill first wave, which is better but takes too much time for our tastes.
We gonna try the Tank /SMN approach next I guess.

He's just bragging like the rest.

Triple Reversal happens anytime more then one monster are nearby and have TP, they sync TP moves and you can't out-range triple reverse. It's damage is based on the number of mobs within range, basically always going to one shot you on D and VD. The adds have some sort of crazy TP regain while the boss doesn't. Basically it boils down to how lucky the kiter is on the monster pathing, that room isn't flat and if one add decides to path to the right of the column while the rest go left, the kiter is going to be in activation range for triple reverse and once it's readied the kiter is as good as dead.

I've been the DD and the kiter and the behavior is really obvious if someone takes the time to actually watch.

Seriously just kill the first wave of adds, they are easy to murder as we are overpowered and makes the entire fight stupid easy.
 Fenrir.Kaldaek
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By Fenrir.Kaldaek 2018-12-13 08:05:50  
Nope no speed hacks either... unless it was such a minimal amount that i couldnt notice. epeo run in all BiS gear... every one and awhile her HP went yellow, but the perp regen5 topped her back off.

Silence also lasted the entire fight. all WS's were 99k, outside of the occasional mordant rime only hitting 75-80k
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By Fenrir.Kaldaek 2018-12-13 08:07:10  
Asura.Saevel said: »
Asura.Sechs said: »
Fenrir.Kaldaek said: »
Asura.Sechs said: »
Fenrir.Kaldaek said: »
If all melee maintain maximum shadows then there is no trouble.
Tell me about it /rolleyes

Im unsure if you're in agreement or disagreement. But it's definitely the case lol
Sorta both.
I agree this approach is not really that complicated, in theory.
Worked fine for me last time this Ambu was up. Farmed a load of points doing VD.
We had a few fails here and there, but mostly it was working fine.

This time around, with the very same crew, we can't tell what's going on but there's *always* at least a Triple Reversal *** the tank.
D, VD, barely makes a difference anyway. It annoys me! I'm not the one kiting so I can't say what's going wrong, but the same people made it work fine last time! /shacklesfist


We tried the kill first wave, which is better but takes too much time for our tastes.
We gonna try the Tank /SMN approach next I guess.

He's just bragging like the rest.

Triple Reversal happens anytime more then one monster are nearby and have TP, they sync TP moves and you can't out-range triple reverse. It's damage is based on the number of mobs within range, basically always going to one shot you on D and VD. The adds have some sort of crazy TP regain while the boss doesn't. Basically it boils down to how lucky the kiter is on the monster pathing, that room isn't flat and if one add decides to path to the right of the column while the rest go left, the kiter is going to be in activation range for triple reverse and once it's readied the kiter is as good as dead.

I've been the DD and the kiter and the behavior is really obvious if someone takes the time to actually watch.

Seriously just kill the first wave of adds, they are easy to murder as we are overpowered and makes the entire fight stupid easy.

Im not bragging at all. The adds literally never came back to the boss. Im sure its all about the kiter and their JAs or whatever. Im not a tank so i dont know.

Like said I was support, my usefulness was only perp regen5, swap to rdm for silence/haste2/slow2/dia3

There is no room for bragging on that note lol
 Lakshmi.Buukki
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2018-12-13 08:21:32  
I love how they just keep adding to the list of things that "ignore migawari". SE wants NINs to be tanks but then diminishes the usefulness of one of its best tanking tricks. And then when NIN wants to be a DD so bad, they give it one tier of PDL+. Why does triple reversal "ignore" migawari, what is the logic behind it? Is it the same as Kyou's Unfaltering Bravado where the damage is "Area based" and not singular enough for Migawari to take effect?

edit: Migawari also doesn't work on MH WS, but that makes me believe there's a property in these moves that specifically allows it to circumvent miga. multihit ws might just be that each hit is unique, and doesn't deal the full damage so I understand that. But moves like Triple Reversal, Bravado, why do they not work. Or does it work if there's only one singular ninja in range?
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By Fenrir.Kaldaek 2018-12-13 08:26:33  
Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
I love how they just keep adding to the list of things that "ignore migawari". SE wants NINs to be tanks but then diminishes the usefulness of one of its best tanking tricks. And then when NIN wants to be a DD so bad, they give it one tier of PDL+. Why does triple reversal "ignore" migawari, what is the logic behind it? Is it the same as Kyou's Unfaltering Bravado where the damage is "Area based" and not singular enough for Migawari to take effect?

edit: Migawari also doesn't work on MH WS, but that makes me believe there's a property in these moves that specifically allows it to circumvent miga. multihit ws might just be that each hit is unique, and doesn't deal the full damage so I understand that. But moves like Triple Reversal, Bravado, why do they not work. Or does it work if there's only one singular ninja in range?

Nice finding on the AMAN science. Question, have you tried migawari/rr on the ambuscade? It may be a far reach, but could both these buffs prevent 1 shot?
 Lakshmi.Buukki
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2018-12-13 08:33:36  
Saevel has already reported

Asura.Saevel said: »
That's the only thing that will kill you in this fight, it deals 8~30K damage, ignores shadows, ignores migawari, ignores EA and scherzo.

I really want to know if anyone has tested moves like Unfaltering Bravado as the ONLY recipient of the damage and not as a group damage split.
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By Asura.Saevel 2018-12-13 09:53:32  
Asura.Sechs said: »
Not sure if boss has regain or not (hard to stick Yurin, altough possible) but adds definitely do.

Our tank claims he got hit by Triple reversal at 22 yalms but you can never be sure about that. It was 22 yalms on his client for sure, but who knows what the distance was when the TP move was processed and calculated on the server. I'd say the range of Triple Reversal is 20 yalms or lower.

It has an activation range of 5 yalms like most TP moves, but once readied it will always hit regardless of range. I've zoomed myself to the other side of the room and it still hit me. All that needs to happen is one add path slightly differently from the rest, and go around the other side of a column, that will cause a condition where the kiter will be within 5 yalms of at least one of them. It may decide to use leaping cleave, or triple reversal. If it's a leaping then you can ignore it, if it's triple then your dead and the adds are going to murder your PT while the NM is at 40~70& HP with near zero chance at recovery.


The thing is, this can also happen under 30% and if it does the team is in a much better place to quickly finish the fight before wipe happens.
 Asura.Sechs
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By Asura.Sechs 2018-12-13 10:03:49  
I don't think Triple Reversal can happen above 30%? Or if it can there must be multiple, different conditions from the ones I was experiencing.

In our case (over 6 hours of attempts) it has ALWAYS happened after the boss reached 30% HP, never before.
Talking about D and VD, no clue about the rest.
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By Caitsith.Mahayaya 2018-12-13 10:09:25  
Party of PUPs/support work for this? I think automaton are immune to endeath, and both master and auto can be dishing out damage on stuff that takes double damage which can cap pretty quick if coming from a single source.
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By Nyarlko 2018-12-13 10:11:53  
It could be something weird like the attack itself deals 1 dmg, then anyone who gets hit "loses" a ton of HP. Think like Death/FullCure. Both of their mana costs are technically only 1MP, then consume the rest of your MP.

Or it could be hybrid phys/magic and break the damage calc into small enough chunks that it doesn't even get a chance to trigger.

Or it could just be that it's just a Drain-type move, which probably doesn't technically "deal damage", which sounds like it could definitely get around Migawari.

Or maybe it's untyped damage. Does Migawari work on Mijin Gakure used by NIN mobs in Dyna?
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2018-12-13 10:35:27  
Nyarlko said: »
Or maybe it's untyped damage. Does Migawari work on Mijin Gakure used by NIN mobs in Dyna?

Yes it does.
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By Sylph.Dravidian 2018-12-13 10:52:42  
So for fun I went into VD running react as geo/blm for stuns and seems to stun NP (only have Mangle, Leaping Cleave, Animating Wail at 99%). Has anyone run this setup and know how reliable stuns are from /blm at the lower percent moves? More specifically wondering if the hate reset move is instant or can be stunned.
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By Asura.Saevel 2018-12-13 11:15:37  
Asura.Sechs said: »
I don't think Triple Reversal can happen above 30%? Or if it can there must be multiple, different conditions from the ones I was experiencing.

In our case (over 6 hours of attempts) it has ALWAYS happened after the boss reached 30% HP, never before.
Talking about D and VD, no clue about the rest.

Can happen anytime more then one add is around another or the MB. I've seen it kill the kiter at 70% back when we were kiting. And yes it's a drain move, it straight up says drains 8 ~ 30k HP.
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By Sylph.Brahmsz 2018-12-13 11:24:27  
You can always take the extra 30~60 seconds it wold take to just kill the adds on pop. Even with triple HP (and that's after triple HP because Draugr Qutrub) they go down fairly easily outside of VD.

Triple Reversal seems to be the more dangerous move, the Genku move at least seems to be blinkable. Very Difficult the [4] adds hit like mack trucks and kept screwing up kiting due to one casting nukes. I was taking ~350 damage/hit on PLD even with defense buffs/abilities on. Haven't even tried it on RUN yet.
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By Quetzalcoatl.Xilkk 2018-12-13 12:04:07  
pet with maxed -dt could survive triple reverse. Unless it also ignores dt.
trick would be holding them all
might be fun to try

pups could gang up and not worry about endeath probably.
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By Sylph.Brahmsz 2018-12-13 12:17:46  
If it's a genuine drain move, it will ignore DT- entirely. It's most likely based on number of adds up. Fought it on VE, it still did it but on VE with 0 adds up it only drained 800 HP. Genku was what killed me though.
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