Blade HI - Weapon Skill Set Ish

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Blade HI - Weapon Skill Set ish
 Quetzalcoatl.Senaki
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By Quetzalcoatl.Senaki 2018-08-13 05:38:16  
Ok I know this question has been asked before, but I can't find any forums saying the answer I need. What the heck is the stat to aim after, Crit Dmg, WS Dmg, DA, TA, QA, etc ???

Thank you ~
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By geigei 2018-08-13 06:24:31  
I hear someone claiming wsdmg on cape is better than crit.
 Asura.Sechs
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By Asura.Sechs 2018-08-13 06:32:57  
To my experience in the Spreadsheet, it totally is.
CritHit is easily capped, or dangerously close to be capped, thanks to Innin, external buffs and Mummu gear in some slots for instance (which performs better than you may think, if you lack WSD options for certain slots).

Crit DMG vs WSD is very similar, with the difference that WSD works 100% of the time whereas Crit DMG works only when you crit.
At 100% Crit rate they are theoretically the same.

...theoretically because I guess it depends on the order they get calculated, not sure if someone knows that exactely.
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 Carbuncle.Lunatone
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By Carbuncle.Lunatone 2018-08-13 07:09:19  
I was going to say yeah, Crit DMG 5% should be the exact same as WSD 5% unless WSD is calculated before the critical takes place or something
AGI30 acc/att20 WSD10% should beat out 10% crit cape unless you're wsing in like negative 30% crit
 Asura.Geriond
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By Asura.Geriond 2018-08-13 09:17:04  
If you have 100% crit rate, then the stronger option between WSDMG and Crit damage is whichever you have less of without including the slot in question.
 Asura.Sechs
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By Asura.Sechs 2018-08-13 09:29:28  
Another possible difference between WSD and CritDMG.
WSD doesn't apply to MultiAttack hits on the same WS.
CritDMG... might? I seem to recall on multihit Crit WS, that CritDMG works on every hit, provided they are crit.
The same should apply to multiattack procs, right?

Here we're talking about a single hit WS so it's no big deal, but if you have 100% crit rate AND you proc a multiattack hit, CritDMG should apply to the additional hit as well, whereas WSD of course will not.
I guess this aspect makes CritDMG look slightly better than WSD when u're at capped Crit, or very very close to that.


...I think? Someone please confirm this lol.
 Fenrir.Soothsayer
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By Fenrir.Soothsayer 2018-08-13 09:57:41  
Asura.Sechs said: »
Another possible difference between WSD and CritDMG.
WSD doesn't apply to MultiAttack hits on the same WS.
CritDMG... might? I seem to recall on multihit Crit WS, that CritDMG works on every hit, provided they are crit.
The same should apply to multiattack procs, right?

Here we're talking about a single hit WS so it's no big deal, but if you have 100% crit rate AND you proc a multiattack hit, CritDMG should apply to the additional hit as well, whereas WSD of course will not.
I guess this aspect makes CritDMG look slightly better than WSD when u're at capped Crit, or very very close to that.


...I think? Someone please confirm this lol.


Correct, this is why Crit Dmg+ is used for weaponskills like CDC instead of WSD. Blade: Hi is 1 hit afaik, so WSD and Crit would be equal
 Asura.Eiryl
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By Asura.Eiryl 2018-08-13 10:16:12  
Always offhand, never single hit. Just to say that they wouldn't be equal.

Sechs has the right idea, more hits means more crits, means more damage. But if no multi-proc then just taking Hi as it's single(2hit) WSD is always going to be 10% more.

Where that falls on a spreadsheet to say whats best, dunno.
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By Boshi 2018-08-13 12:08:07  
https://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/33470/the-sealed-dagger-a-ninja-guide/96/#3319531

Page 96&97 there's an in depth discussion on bis blade Hi sets.

The only thing that has come out since then is:
Relic+3 Legs,
new WSD+5 stp-10 Ring.


takeaways:
1. for a good dd job, critrate is overrated on these to an extent. (With really good gear a blu has mache+1 beat out moonshade at 1k flat)
On Hi moonshade is only adding what? ~1.25%c rate?
-because of this brutal should actually beat out moonshade. Obviously if you have Heishi mainhand this makes moonshade even weaker.

2. for hands Ryuo+1, Mummu+2, Kobo Kote are all very comparable and it really depends on what you have overall and the attack tier.
-Kobo have agi40 crit4 but lack any accuracy
-Mummu need to be activated with another Mummu piece (ideally feet or ring)

3. Depending on what Gear you have begruding/Mummu/Ilabrat/Regal are all competitive. Need to see where new ring falls in this.
-Naturally Ilabrat/Regal have advantage at low att (and acc)
-Mummu ring only viable if you have a piece of mummu+2
-begruding devalued with the more mummu+2/kenda you have cause of rate

**Herc is still ideally viable body/feet with agi15/wsd4.

(naturally best slots for DM wsd would be body/feet.

~~

wsd>critD>CritRate>ta=>qa>da
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 Asura.Sechs
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By Asura.Sechs 2018-08-13 13:37:04  
Fenrir.Soothsayer said: »
Correct, this is why Crit Dmg+ is used for weaponskills like CDC instead of WSD.
Not trying to deny what you said, it's undoubtely an important reason, but I think the MAIN reason why people use Cdmg instead of WSD on CDC is mostly because it's a multihit WS :P
You don't really use WSD on multihit WS, tipically, unless you have no better options (there's usually plenty!).

WSD is THE master WS stat mostly for 1hit WS. There's a lot of very good 1hit WSs around.

For those WSs CritDMG is normally worse because it's the same as WSD but only works when the hit is Crit, whereas WSD works all of the time.
With the minor twist we just talked about (multihit procs, close to 100% crit rate etc).

Granted, to be fair, I think this is an aspect that only concerns Ninja.
I can't think of any other 1hit WS that can crit, outside of Climactic Flourish/Sneak Attack.
Think Blade: Hi is the only one actually?
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By Boshi 2018-08-13 13:52:52  
Sooth's quote is out of context he was literally responding to why you don't use wsd on multihit ws specifically.

h2h backhand blow is 1hit crit and club truestrike is 1hit 100crit,
not really important ws.

edit: forgot GA! keene edge 1hit crit anddddd

Ukko's fury is 2hit crit so it basically functions like a 1hit crit.
rate is very high from tp 20/35/55
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 Asura.Eiryl
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By Asura.Eiryl 2018-08-13 13:55:55  
There's at least 2 others, but I kinda doubt you'd gear for them...

Power Slash, Vorpal Scythe
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By Boshi 2018-08-13 13:58:17  
Asura.Eiryl said: »
There's at least 2 others, but I kinda doubt you'd gear for them...

Power Slash, Vorpal Scythe
lol I just looked at my run GS completely forgot..
 Fenrir.Soothsayer
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By Fenrir.Soothsayer 2018-08-13 14:25:47  
Boshi said: »
Sooth's quote is out of context he was literally responding to why you don't use wsd on multihit ws specifically.

Correct, my bad..
 Phoenix.Capuchin
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By Phoenix.Capuchin 2018-08-13 17:22:37  
Boshi said: »
https://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/33470/the-sealed-dagger-a-ninja-guide/96/#3319531

Page 96&97 there's an in depth discussion on bis blade Hi sets.

The only thing that has come out since then is:
Relic+3 Legs,
new WSD+5 stp-10 Ring.

Yeah that's some on point discussion. As for the newer stuff since those posts:

* In spreadsheet testing, I can't manage to get the new WSD+5 ring to be worth using for Hi over some pair of Mummu/Ilabrat/Begrudging, depending on buffs.

* Relic +3 legs as well are gonna come down to target/buffs, but Mummu+2 either win or are close for that slot.

Other variable pieces (depending on buffs/target) would be:
Head - AF+3 or Adhemar+1
Hands - Ryuo+1 or Mummu+2

Hi also has the consideration of having a huge AGI mod (which tends to make Mummu +2 gear stronger for Hi with that set bonus, as well as helping Ilabrat), so that's something to take into consideration if you're applying any of this to some other WS.
 Asura.Sechs
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By Asura.Sechs 2018-08-13 17:53:10  
Overal set dependant of course, but with my gear I always get Regal/Ilabrat beating any combination with Begruding.
I actually had to unmule my old Rancor collar because I'm getting the best results off that (very very close to the second best option, but it's interesting to use since no Begruging Ring in my set)
 Fenrir.Skarwind
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By Fenrir.Skarwind 2018-08-13 21:38:37  
{
ammo="Yetshila +1",
head={ name="Adhemar Bonnet +1", augments={'DEX+12','AGI+12','Accuracy+20',}},
body="Ken. Samue +1",
hands={ name="Ryuo Tekko +1", augments={'DEX+12','Accuracy+25','"Dbl.Atk."+4',}},
legs="Ken. Hakama +1",
feet="Ken. Sune-Ate +1",
neck="Fotia Gorget",
waist="Fotia Belt",
left_ear="Brutal Earring",
right_ear={ name="Moonshade Earring", augments={'Accuracy+4','TP Bonus +250',}},
left_ring="Begrudging Ring",
right_ring="Regal Ring",
back={ name="Andartia's Mantle", augments={'STR+20','Accuracy+20 Attack+20','Weapon skill damage +10%',}},
}
Don't know if the hands were worth it. Hi still sucks for me D:

I didn't make a WSDMG cape just for AGI/Hi yet.
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By Boshi 2018-08-14 09:08:36  
Mummu gonna beat Ken in the leg&feet slot.

ear ishvara>brutal
 Phoenix.Capuchin
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By Phoenix.Capuchin 2018-08-14 13:29:26  
Re: Skarwind's set, agreed with Boshi's comments on Mummu +2 legs/feet. Especially legs, I never see Ken+1 winning. Ken+1 feet are at least close, and I've seen them win some situations, but I default to Mummu.

Ears: Ishavara>Brutal I agree with, but I tend to find Moonshade is the odd man out. Ish/Brutal pair is my standard. Lugra+1 at night can be strong too.

Rings: Begrudging/Regal never comes out best for me. I find Ilabrat as the one constant top 2 Hi ring in pretty much any situation and gear set. Second ring is something from the Regal/Begrudging/Mummu group, depending on gear/buffs/target.
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By Boshi 2018-08-14 13:44:17  
I think a general rule of thumb if you have items like that where they're always very close and vary depending on att, you should favor the one with more attack.

Regal/Ilabrat


(Begruding&Mummu also devalue with the more tp overflow you have, slightly.
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 Fenrir.Skarwind
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By Fenrir.Skarwind 2018-08-14 15:27:31  
I don't have Ilabrat yet.

But I'll try this:

{
main="Heishi Shorinken",
sub={ name="Ochu", augments={'STR+5','DEX+5','Ninjutsu skill +8','DMG:+11',}},
ammo="Yetshila +1",
head={ name="Adhemar Bonnet +1", augments={'DEX+12','AGI+12','Accuracy+20',}},
body="Ken. Samue +1",
hands={ name="Ryuo Tekko +1", augments={'DEX+12','Accuracy+25','"Dbl.Atk."+4',}},
legs="Mummu Kecks +2",
feet="Mummu Gamash. +2",
neck="Fotia Gorget",
waist="Fotia Belt",
left_ear="Brutal Earring",
right_ear="Ishvara Earring",
left_ring="Mummu Ring",
right_ring="Regal Ring",
back={ name="Andartia's Mantle", augments={'STR+20','Accuracy+20 Attack+20','Weapon skill damage +10%',}},
}

Thanks for the advice, I greatly underestimated the impact of Attributes on Hi.
 Asura.Sechs
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By Asura.Sechs 2018-08-15 07:23:15  
From my (small!) tests, Rancor Collar beats Fotia.
Granted that spradsheet doesn't calculate the value of the occasional Save TP, but it's so rare I'm not sure I would hold my breath for that.

Last but not least, Rancor Collar will produce zero results if you're already at 100% Crit rate, whereas in that scenario Fotia would still provide a small damage increase.

Ah of course there's AF+3 head as well, if you wanna upgrade that. No accuracy alas, well aside from the +15 bonus you'd get by pairing it with a Regal Ring.
 Carbuncle.Lunatone
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By Carbuncle.Lunatone 2018-08-15 08:12:59  
I personally do Regal/Brat w/ Rancor Collar and actually get both windbuffet +1 and caudata beating fotia belt w/ my current sets

sets.precast.WS['Blade: Hi'] = set_combine(sets.precast.WS,{
ammo="Yetshila",
head="Hachiya Hatsu. +3",
body="Ken. Samue",
hands={ name="Herculean Gloves", augments={'CHR+5','Weapon skill damage +10%',}},
legs="Mummu Kecks +2",
feet={ name="Herculean Boots", augments={'Pet: Haste+1','CHR+6','Weapon skill damage +7%','Accuracy+5 Attack+5',}},
neck="Rancor Collar",
waist="Caudata Belt",
left_ear="Brutal Earring",
right_ear="Ishvara Earring",
left_ring="Ilabrat Ring",
right_ring="Regal Ring",
back={ name="Andartia's Mantle", augments={'AGI+20','Accuracy+20 Attack+20','AGI+10','Weapon skill damage +10%',}},
})
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