Iroha Fight Event

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2010-06-21
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Iroha fight event
 Caitsith.Mahayaya
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By Caitsith.Mahayaya 2018-09-04 07:55:31  
I see Carol 1 being used for stuff, does Carol 2 have some drawback to it to not use over Carol 1?
 Sylph.Reain
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By Sylph.Reain 2018-09-04 08:26:32  
SV fire Carol with all carol equipment gives 304 fire resist. (doubled from 152)

SV fire Carol II With all carol equipment gives 100 fire resist (no change from non-SV) and 40% nullification of fire damage (doubled from approx. 20%)

Nullification is situationally useful, whereas huge resist values are fantastic for resisting damage as well as resisting debuffs in most situations.
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 Shiva.Hiep
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By Shiva.Hiep 2018-09-07 19:38:57  
Just in case anyone wanted to watch ):
YouTube Video Placeholder

Can't really confirm, but it looks like Iroha II has more DT if you kill all the adds first. In the JP video, their WSs spike up to 20k, but ours pretty much never go over 10k for physical WSs.
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By Afania 2018-09-08 00:11:42  
Asura.Umopepisdn said: »
YouTube Video Placeholder


The JPs do it very differently.


Just FYI since I didn't see anyone post this: Tarumarurus blog has NM stats listed.

1st Iroha:
1200 acc, geo potency- 50%, pdt- 50%, mdt-25%, 1.8 million hp, mdef 220.

2nd Iroha:
1600 acc, geo potency-, pdt mdt- same as 1st. 6 million hp, mdef 320.

Rest of the adds stat listed in a chart:



From first row to last: acc requirement, PDT- %, MDT- %, Geomancy potency- %.

From left colume to right: lion, prishe, nashmeira, lilisette, arciela.
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 Sylph.Reain
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By Sylph.Reain 2018-09-08 02:28:24  
Shiva.Hiep said: »
Just in case anyone wanted to watch ):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAPGb2jCfrw
Can't really confirm, but it looks like Iroha II has more DT if you kill all the adds first. In the JP video, their WSs spike up to 20k, but ours pretty much never go over 10k for physical WSs.

Nice fight. Was there a reason your bard was using sword madrigal instead of blade towards the end?
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By Shiva.Hiep 2018-09-08 03:24:15  
I think that was a mistake. She might have been nervous or tired, it was getting really late at that point. I kept calling Nashmeira Nashmau during that run -.-
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 Carbuncle.Papesse
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By Carbuncle.Papesse 2018-09-18 12:55:51  
Iroha's second form took 16 mins with RUN WAR COR WHM SMN BRD. As shown on the JP video, Tomahawk removes a good chunk of her DT which drastically speed up the fight.

EA+Scherzo with no MDT/Shell is another effective way to deal with her AoEs. They become so strong that EA/Scherzo proc every time on DDs, reducing damage taken to almost nothing.
Pacifying Ruby is also useful to prevent DDs from taking aggro, otherwise I think it's inevitable they drag Iroha's attention after a while.

Aside of Amatsu: Fuga and Kyori none of her TP moves remove shadows. RUN/NIN can easily keep utsu up to absorb Fire VI and there is still EA/Scherzo if the spell lands unresisted.
The adds couldn't act at all while doing Shock Squall > Thunderspark right before Horde Lullaby.
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 Bahamut.Lexouritis
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By Bahamut.Lexouritis 2018-09-18 23:36:09  
We finally got everyone together and beat this tonight. Good riddance, I did not like this fight as much as the original master trials lol.
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By olson2189 2018-09-21 22:48:26  
Cleared it tonight. Asura. WAR, COR, RUN, SMN, BRD, WHM. Can confirm that planning around EA+Scherzo works nicely. DD's don't turtle up, don't use shell, etc. in order to trigger EA/scherzo procs as much as possible.



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 Bahamut.Shozokui
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By Bahamut.Shozokui 2019-07-18 08:04:15  
I'd like to add my piece to the conversation. We were originally struggling with the fight when we tried it a few times in 2018. A lot of the information out there makes the fight "doable" but there's definitely an optimal way and here's the best we've found.

Setup: PLD, WHM, BRD, RDM, COR, WAR (Using R15 Chango)

Our clear time was 24 minutes.

Here's a few details from the clear:

1. RDM is now overpowered in the fight. You can debuff everything making sleeps easier to land, rendering the boss relatively non-dangerous. RDM can also build huge en-spell passive damage so it's worth having. Inundation is very strong on this fight.

2. BRD was meleeing with Naegling and taking part in skillchains to reduce the DT lockout for every part of the skillchain.

3. Our WAR was using Tomahawk on cooldown. Full Break / Armor Break was used sometimes, but admittedly I was not on top of it.

4. Our COR was strictly using a Leaden Salute setup and meleeing for TP.

5. Light carols. They literally made all damage trivial. LC1/LC2 and you will take basically no damage. At the start of the fight we stacked 10 bard buffs and let the outside bard do SV / CC Scherzo so we'd have it for 18 minutes of the 24 that we were fighting. That freed us up to run both carols for a very large portion of the fight and it made a 100% difference.

Now for the juicy bits. The entire fight consisted of the same strategy - make radiance, but the WAR is closing the last two steps and taking full advantage of Inundation's skillchain damage boost.

Our WS rotation was:
1. Leaden Salute - Always hit between 10~30k damage. (Veeeeery acceptable for the huge DT on the fight.)

2. Savage Blade (BRD or RDM if BRD was singing)

3. Upheaval for AM3 - SC always did between 30 and 50k damage alongside a 20-30k WS.

4. Ukko's Fury - Not much to say, Ukkos sucks, but radiance always did 10-20k dmg

Edit: The reason we use Ukkos here even though the damage is low is the ensure that that next Upheaval is full-damage and experiences no withering effect.

So the whole fight we're generally copious amounts of passive enspell, RDM is also using Sanguine Blade for 5-12k an avg, and then the SC damage is the main driver for the fight.

Our strategy progression was something like this:
Try what's said on BG Wiki - Our RUN kept getting bopped by SCs after her AoE wiped shadows.
Try killing adds - Lion is so annoying
Try just melee zerging - Damage is weak and DDs die somewhat frequently, fight takes too long and adds become unsleepable a little after the 30 minute mark.
Try going hardcore SC on adds - works somewhat, but we end up back at square 1 with "why are we fighting these, it's stupid"
SC zerg Iroha: Only need 2 sleeps so it minimizes RNG on Nitro resets and ensures you do not reach a full-resist state for sleep.

Our total attempt count was around 10~12, but I have not accurately tracked that information since we took a break for several months after attempting this the first couple times.

Here are some photos that recount damage details. This does NOT include the first phase of the fight (which was over in 3 minutes, the SC destroys her too).

Weapon Skill Stats



Total Damage


Clear Pic


All three hours of attempts were streamed and available as VOD here: twitch.tv/shozodrg
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 Asura.Shiraj
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By Asura.Shiraj 2019-07-18 08:24:31  
Congrats on the clear. Not many total have this clear, so it's nice to see more people get it.
I do apologise for some info on BG cos I was the one who edited most of that page and I couldn't remember everything in that fight so parts were missing.
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By Bahamut.Shozokui 2019-07-18 08:50:05  
Asura.Shiraj said: »
Congrats on the clear. Not many total have this clear, so it's nice to see more people get it.
I do apologise for some info on BG cos I was the one who edited most of that page and I couldn't remember everything in that fight so parts were missing.

Thanks my man. I'm just glad there was any information to go on at all! Makes things easier to workshop.
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By Bahamut.Minimuse 2019-07-18 09:25:20  
Asura.Shiraj said: »
Congrats on the clear. Not many total have this clear, so it's nice to see more people get it.
I do apologise for some info on BG cos I was the one who edited most of that page and I couldn't remember everything in that fight so parts were missing.

Arigato, gomabseubnida, warmest thank you Shiraj-san for helping to provide any info on the Iroha Onna-bugeisha Master Trial.

This is what the FFXI community was like 17 years ago with Japanese and a few English speakers pooling our experiences together on various blogs and forums to solve whatever challenges the developers threw at the burgeoning young FFXI community.

Keep sharing so everyone can accomplish fun times crushing end game content.

/smile
 Asura.Shiraj
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By Asura.Shiraj 2019-07-18 10:45:21  
Bahamut.Shozokui said: »
1. RDM is now overpowered in the fight. You can debuff everything making sleeps easier to land, rendering the boss relatively non-dangerous. RDM can also build huge en-spell passive damage so it's worth having. Inundation is very strong on this fight.

I actually really want to try RDM in this fight. When I beat this no one in our group had a viable end game ready RDM let alone a RDM ready for arguably the hardest fight in the game so we never took one. I've recently started gearing RDM and once I feel like I am ready for it I definitely wanna give this a go.

Did you guys find any new info out which may help people? I'm 100% rusty and not as aware of this fight's mechanics as I once was when I went on RUN, so gonna need a refresh on knowledge lol.
It literally has been 299 days since I done this as the necro bump said lol. My memory is jagged from that long.
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By Bahamut.Shozokui 2019-07-18 11:17:29  
The key to our victory was passive damage, crowd control, using the correct bar spells, and taking advantage of Inundation and aeonic aftermath properties.

Other than that, all previous information was somewhat valid. I'd highly suggest against killing all of them. Lion is stupid and a half. By 30~40 minutes, sleep will be nearly impossible to land so the fight has to be over if you're not killing the adds.

We're going to be doing the fight again so there's a few more things I'm going to be incorporating.

1. Skillchain Bonus - Utilizing things like Allies roll over Chaos, gear like Mujin band, Emicho +1 feet, Valorous hands over odyssean

2. Extending the skillchain with more weapon types to maximize inundation bonus.

3. Utilizing a dancer to close skillchains with flourish

4. Because carols helped so much, utilizing a Rune Fencer to extend the skillchain

Just a couple ideas I've been toying with. We still have a good amount of people that want to go through the fight, so we're going to have to be a bit flexible and try new things.
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By Asura.Shiraj 2019-07-18 11:35:57  
Would you try Rune tank again? I found RUN easier to survive than PLD, but possibly just because of gear difference between my PLD and RUN, idk.
But having a RUN tank you could also implement Gambit/Rayke to your arsenal and improve Leaden salute damage.

One thing that did help me on RUN was timing. I timed almost every utsusemi perfectly to survive any Fire 6 magic burst coming my way. Sometimes I slipped, bound to happen, but if I did I had Unda x3 Vallation/Valiance up and that itself stopped me dying from Magic bursts if I was in correct set.
The Fire 6 MBs would hit like 2k maximum in tank set, but midcast set sometimes 3k, pushing 4-5k depending on the set.

I did actually choose to tank with Aettir over Epeolatry for this fight as well just for that extra Magic evasion.
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By Bahamut.Shozokui 2019-07-18 11:56:38  
I'd like the try it, yes. PLD with Burtgang takes very little damage over the course of the run. Aegis is very strong in this scenario. Rampart is also very strong and gets reset often because of the COR spamming resets. Sentinel makes re-sleep transition phases a joke. It's definitely the more defensive way to play.

I also would use Aettir. I'd use a maximum MEVA/MDT set tanking on RUN in this fight as well. I'd also make sure my 80% FC set is equipped for the duration of precast and midcast on Utsusemi. RUN may have hate issues not being able to weaponskill freely though. PLD doesn't rely on WSing at all, so that's another trade off.

In the venn diagram when we were making a choice, paladin had more utility in this scenario than RUN.

DPS is by no means an issue, our alliance DPS was well above 6000, peaking at 7000 during full buff burn phases. We currently hold the record for fastest time on Bahamut, and I believe we would hold that across all servers. So RUNs buffs to that DPS and survivability didn't make as much sense. I could see a 15 minute fight with Rayke/Gambit resets as long as the RUN didn't have issues living.
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By Leviathan.Comeatmebro 2019-07-18 12:00:27  
hate issues aren't a tradeoff, haven't tried PLD on it so i couldn't tell you if it's better or not, but PLD is not in the same league as RUN for hate generation

definitely agree that if aegis makes MB reliably survivable, it's the safer option
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By Asura.Shiraj 2019-07-18 12:11:49  
I honestly reduced my Fast Cast set to roughly 50% FC and decided to add more HP/DT into it to help with HP dip when switching. And when I was casting Utsusemi I was casting in my Magic evasion set as midcast which actually helped so well.

Also I believe Papesse had a 15-16 minute clear? Have to check if i'm wrong, but yeah skipping adds, you can easily clear really fast. What I've learned from my bajillion master trial attempts is that once you clear it once you learn and figure more stuff out if you do the same fight again, this helps improve win time a lot if you make even the slightest improvements.
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By Ricon 2019-07-18 12:23:30  
Leviathan.Comeatmebro said: »
but PLD is not in the same league as RUN for hate generation
I agree 100% that in normal situations Run and PLD are not in the same league. That said, the strat we used wouldn't allow the tank to ws freely, in the pics you can see that I used 2 Atonements in 25 mins. They were using a specific SC to maximize dmg, not saying a RUN couldn't be a part of it but in the event they could not WS then PLD without question has the better hate generation. PLD has access to much more enmity in gear and the same recast on spells, foil would be the only tool RUN has the advantage with and with all the resets PLDs CD's make up for it easy.
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By Leviathan.Comeatmebro 2019-07-18 12:28:37  
Ricon said: »
PLD has access to much more enmity in gear and the same recast on spells, foil would be the only tool RUN has the advantage with and with all the resets PLDs CD's make up for it easy.

Foil is 1/4 the recast of reprisal, and all of RUN's wards and effusions grant substantial hate. Even without damage, they are not close. Differences in enmity gear mean very little (110 vs 130 gear enm is really 240% vs 260% after crusade and base level.. a 1/12 difference).

PLD's biggest advantage(in this and anywhere else) is that it can keep substantial enmity+ while never dropping any DT.
 Asura.Shiraj
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By Asura.Shiraj 2019-07-18 12:30:22  
100% RUN is full tank mode in this fight. I tried hybrid tanking and it did not work, 1 mis-timed WS and you go bye bye. Safer to stay tank. But RUN could also provide one for all as extra safety measure for the party.
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By olson2189 2019-07-18 12:37:41  
Bahamut.Shozokui said: »
In the venn diagram when we were making a choice, paladin had more utility in this scenario than RUN.

These are fighting words in a thread Shiraj is involved in :D

Grats on your clear. Glad to see people still attempting it in 2019.
 Asura.Shiraj
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By Asura.Shiraj 2019-07-18 12:40:15  
olson2189 said: »
Bahamut.Shozokui said: »
In the venn diagram when we were making a choice, paladin had more utility in this scenario than RUN.

These are fighting words in a thread Shiraj is involved in :D

Grats on your clear. Glad to see people still attempting it in 2019.

Lol
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By Bahamut.Shozokui 2019-07-18 12:57:32  
Leviathan.Comeatmebro said: »
Ricon said: »
PLD has access to much more enmity in gear and the same recast on spells, foil would be the only tool RUN has the advantage with and with all the resets PLDs CD's make up for it easy.

Foil is 1/4 the recast of reprisal, and all of RUN's wards and effusions grant substantial hate. Even without damage, they are not close. Differences in enmity gear mean very little (110 vs 130 gear enm is really 240% vs 260% after crusade and base level.. a 1/12 difference).

PLD's biggest advantage(in this and anywhere else) is that it can keep substantial enmity+ while never dropping any DT.

The bad news is that you can't keep hate when you're dead so who can do more enmity isn't a conversation to be had. My only statement was that RUN may suffer because weaponskilling is certainly a large part of their enmity generation.

In this scenario, playing RUN requires perfect play. Anything less, and you will die and cause significant harm to the group's goal of clearing the fight. Anything happens, and it *** the whole run. This game is too old to expect perfect play from anyone, so while it can be done (the evidence being that the first clears used a RUN), it's much safer and lowers the risk of failure by a very significant amount. Someone told me their first attempts took them well over 60 attempts to clear because the fight was so RNG based, and when we started that seemed to ring true. It's not super RNG based, we just weren't doing it right.

PLD is extremely safe and is at almost no risk of dying because of Aegis while being able to safely execute all its duties in the fight.
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By Asura.Pergatory 2019-07-18 16:01:28  
Bahamut.Shozokui said: »
RUN may suffer because weaponskilling is certainly a large part of their enmity generation.
Sorry for going on a tangent as I know this isn't the core of your point, but the above really isn't true. RUN can out-hate a PLD without ever drawing their weapon.

Now, a lot of the modern "lookatme!" RUNs would loath to admit this is true, and would claim there's no drawback to a tank DDing because they love jerking their meat to the tune of Dimi/Reso spam, but it is true.
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By Ricon 2019-07-18 16:49:04  
DirectX said: »
Bahamut.Shozokui said: »
This game is too old to expect perfect play from anyone
You mean we're not young uns with good reflexes anymore?
Mmmmm How I miss being 17 and trying to exp back in 2004. Oh wait, nope I'm good. lol
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By Bahamut.Minimuse 2019-07-18 17:36:43  
Asura.Shiraj said: »
Would you try Rune tank again? I found RUN easier to survive than PLD, but possibly just because of gear difference between my PLD and RUN, idk.
But having a RUN tank you could also implement Gambit/Rayke to your arsenal and improve Leaden salute damage.

Gambit/Rayke might also help elevate Crocea RDM enspell damage high enough to top WAR in total damage as well as enhance Leaden Salute.

Regarding Hate Control:
The way DN cleared this, hate control was only an issue between the tank and the war.

WAR physical damage was the only damage able to generate enough enmity to pull hate off the tank every so often. WAR at least can do some tanking if necessary as long as he is not caught in a WS set.

The DD BRD's physical damage was low enough not to ever take hate from the tank even when the WAR died once.

The white damage from the RDM with enspells is based on elemental magic...little enmity generation.

Leaden Salute is also elemental magic...little enmity generation. The COR could have done a bit more damage with Naegling-Attakos SB, but would have also generated more hate.

We had hate and damage managed appropriately whether we had a RUN or a PLD tank. It's more of an issue of which tanks are available when doing stuff. RUN vs. PLD is moot.
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By Bahamut.Minimuse 2019-07-18 17:40:06  
DirectX said: »
Bahamut.Shozokui said: »
This game is too old to expect perfect play from anyone
You mean we're not young uns with good reflexes anymore?

More like:
  • puppy needs to go outside


  • oh pizza delivery is here brb


  • sorry Comcast is bottlenecking my connection again


  • my taru is too short and on the verge of an epilitic seizure from being in the center of the light SC-radiance



While perfect play is something you can work on to challenge yourself, having fun with a group of people you work well with trumps perfect play. The way a group handles bumps in the road makes the journey worthwhile to do over.

We can certainly trim off kill time with minor tweaks. We can also factor in tolerence levels in getting clears for lesser geared people and other DD combinations.
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