The A.M.A.N. Trove BC

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the A.M.A.N. Trove BC
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 Bismarck.Firedemon
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By Bismarck.Firedemon 2018-08-11 12:25:12  
Cerberus.Boogs said: »
I would think that the chest is simply near-impossible to beat, with no gimmicks involved (i.e. no proc system, etc). I.e. I don't think the majority of players were meant to defeat the mimic. Otherwise, people would eventually find the weakness and spam this event with mules granting access to 5 non-mules. The drops seem too good to allow for such "high" frequency if the mimic were to be easily vanquished due to some hidden-but-now-known weakness.

If this was the case, SE could have just had the player die upon opening the wrong chest.
 Phoenix.Taplaiceps
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By Phoenix.Taplaiceps 2018-08-11 13:30:54  
Bismarck.Firedemon said: »
Cerberus.Boogs said: »
I would think that the chest is simply near-impossible to beat, with no gimmicks involved (i.e. no proc system, etc). I.e. I don't think the majority of players were meant to defeat the mimic. Otherwise, people would eventually find the weakness and spam this event with mules granting access to 5 non-mules. The drops seem too good to allow for such "high" frequency if the mimic were to be easily vanquished due to some hidden-but-now-known weakness.

If this was the case, SE could have just had the player die upon opening the wrong chest.

I disagree with this actually. FFXI is an over 16 year old game now. Who knows what coding they used 16 years ago. There could very well be no way to code immediate death to a player, without rewriting tons of code that would take many man hours to complete.

However, they do state that if you kill the mimic you can then open the gold chest. Even with that statement, it's very possible it is not intended that you do kill the chest, it's intended you "lose" the event.

Kudos to everyone trying to kill the chest though! Would be very interesting to see if there is a repeatable way to do so.
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 Asura.Geriond
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By Asura.Geriond 2018-08-11 13:58:00  
No, it would be trivial to program instant, unavoidable death should you open the chest using only current mechanics, and there are many ways it could be done.

There could be a 100 yalm, 9999/tic damage aura, or it could instantly inflict RR-wipe plus 100 yalm instant death (KO'd type, so resist death doesn't work), or it could just do a 100 yalm multi-hit 99999 damage attack that ignores shadows and wipes reraise.

They wouldn't even have to have it kill you if they wanted to make it only a lose condition; they could just give it permanent -100% DT, or 100 million HP, or absorb everything all of the time.

The very fact that there is a reward for killing it AND they talk about the reward means that they intend for it to be defeated. People have even been making progress in reducing its HP significantly and learning its gimmicks, so there's literally no reason to think it wasn't mean to be winnable.
 Sylph.Wasenshi
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By Sylph.Wasenshi 2018-08-11 14:18:50  
Not to mention there is a new title "Mimic Masher"
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 Lakshmi.Buukki
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2018-08-11 14:19:34  
It's winnable, and I imagine when players start coming up with a working strategy, it's going to be something where teams save up their orbs in an attempt to farm these runs in mass, for chances at rare bodies. If 6 people have Venus Orbs, thats six chances at something rare, assuming you even need to kill the MImic in those 6 attempts. This was a really lazy way of creating content, but content nonetheless.

Probably is the wisest idea to just save all of your vouchers until there is something that is proven to work, and then spam them all in succession. You're going to have a better chance at omen bodies if you can near-100% guarantee a win, vs just guessing and gambling. At the same time, players who don't want to team up for the challenge are still able to test their luck with very little loss. It's actually a lazy, brilliant idea.
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 Fenrir.Snaps
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By Fenrir.Snaps 2018-08-11 14:37:51  
It's definitely winnable
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 Cerberus.Boogs
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By Cerberus.Boogs 2018-08-12 10:37:30  
Anyone gotten around to throwing SMN's at it?
 
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 Ragnarok.Lockfort
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By Ragnarok.Lockfort 2018-08-12 10:53:30  
Cerberus.Boogs said: »
Anyone gotten around to throwing SMN's at it?

Yep. Didn't work for me.
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By Afania 2018-08-12 12:57:40  
Content only has been released for less than a week and people are already referencing AV at 75, LOL.
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 Fenrir.Ramzus
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By Fenrir.Ramzus 2018-08-12 13:00:44  
It's absolutely winnable. My group has gotten it to the 20%s a few times already, we just haven't had the chance to play in a few days and hammer out some more attempts. The mob behavior changes at 70%/40%/Maybe 10% after each Kathwack. I can post some more details later when I'm home
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 Asura.Zanosan
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By Asura.Zanosan 2018-08-12 13:20:14  
DirectX said: »
Fenrir.Snaps said: »
It's definitely winnable
But will it be winnable at a consistent rate by average to above average players with a variety of set ups? Nope.

This is AV all over again! The devs killed it at 75 without cheating remember!

Have you even actually put significant quality time and effort into beating this? Your comment makes me think otherwise. Maybe you're just much more below average than you think. Saying something is impossible at this point before exhausting your resources in a positive attempt is simply defeatist and instead of being the light of reality you may think you are, you're just dragging down this conversation with these shitty "contributions". Based on what we've figured out and done, it's definitely winnable.

I would say its difficulty is comparable to mid-level Ambuscade VD fights while not being "cheesable" due to its HP and mechanics (so expect fights to be in the 20+ min range, most likely) and there actually seems to be quite a bit of flexibility in set ups at this point, but based on the last (few?) mechanics unknown to my group it may require the locking of another slot to a specific job type. With good sleeps to stop death (and proper positioning to make sure you're enfeeb free to sleep when needed) you remove the only deadly mechanic in the fight. Though maybe it was only that way because we were using MNKs the mitigate its TP gain. How much variety do you expect in a 6 person BC? You'll always need a healer and in any melee fight you can't just simply beat with trusts, you usually have at least 2 support jobs.
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 Asura.Eiryl
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By Asura.Eiryl 2018-08-12 13:29:24  
Bringing back the ghetto stun all the way back from 2005 when I used to lullaby goblin bomb back in exp parties
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By 2018-08-12 13:54:36
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 Leviathan.Comeatmebro
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By Leviathan.Comeatmebro 2018-08-12 14:01:21  
DirectX said: »
I sincerely doubt that they are going to making it consistently winnable when the drop rate of rare as hell omen drops is so high.

The droprate is not hugely altered by being able to win unless it lets you continue opening boxes, and the description implied it wouldn't. If you open a mimic before a thud, you aren't getting the drop either way. The only difference is that you can be greedy and look for second thuds with a bit more confidence.

If you're employing the standard 'get thud, open gold' strategy, being able to kill it is unlikely to even double your loot versus not.
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By 2018-08-12 14:20:08
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By Afania 2018-08-12 14:20:12  
Asura.Zanosan said: »
Saying something is impossible at this point before exhausting your resources in a positive attempt is simply defeatist and instead of being the light of reality you may think you are, you're just dragging down this conversation with these shitty "contributions".

Just FYI, He've done that in multiple job threads and selling threads in the past, randomly drops negative/cynical comments with defeatist mentality, then got mad at people for calling him out for not contributing anything in the conversation.

AV at 75 was attempted by multiple top end ls using absolute best setup possible, that was not even comparable to a group that multi box and lacks brd. I find it ridiculous that a 6 day old content got compared with AV just because people haven't figure things out.
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 Asura.Geriond
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By Asura.Geriond 2018-08-12 14:20:53  
DirectX said: »
No, because admittedly better geared people with more resources (i.e. 5 other top geared real players) are putting effort into it. The skill requirement in this game was removed years ago and basically all gear is only a matter of playtime to obtain and not skill so your petty attempt at an insult is laughable.
I know it's a meme to talk about how easy FFXI is, but you know that it's not actually true that it doesn't take skill, right?
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 Asura.Zanosan
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By Asura.Zanosan 2018-08-12 14:36:50  
DirectX said: »
The skill requirement in this game was removed years ago and basically all gear is only a matter of playtime to obtain and not skill so your petty attempt at an insult is laughable.
I never mentioned skill or gear, I was referencing your own scale of "average to above average players."
Asura.Geriond said: »
I know it's a meme to talk about how easy FFXI is, but you know that it's not actually true that it doesn't take skill, right?
Thanks for saying what I wasn't going through the effort to try and word lmao.


DirectX said: »
Pointing out that it will not be consistently killable with a variety of setups and, likely, less than 6 real players is not saying it is "impossible". Don't argue with yourself over things I've not said.
By stating "impossible" I was directly referencing your "nope" and stating that it can "be winnable at a consistent rate by average to above average players with a variety of set ups". Don't argue with yourself over things I've not said.

DirectX said: »
One has to be a very good RMEA BRD and a real player (unless using a bot to sleep on cast), for sleeps?
I'm sorry not all content is achievable by sparks-level characters? These are the same qualifications that make fights and content that has been available for YEARS possible (SMN burn methods aside). How is this unreasonable? Also, it's been clearly stated that this role is sufficiently met by a COR doing Light shot as well, more variety for you.

DirectX said: »
I sincerely doubt that they are going to making it consistently winnable when the drop rate of rare as hell omen drops is so high.
Oh no! They're making content that's lower difficulty than a lot of VD Ambuscades and providing a way to obtain extremely rare gear that has been available for more than a year now? The fight portion isn't even required for the rewards. Like I said, stop making assumptions about a fight when we barely know anything about it. The key is in the mechanics, not the difficulty. Once we figure out what we're supposed to do, this fight doesn't have much difficulty.
 Asura.Zanosan
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By Asura.Zanosan 2018-08-12 14:39:33  
Afania said: »
Just FYI, He've done that in multiple job threads and selling threads in the past, randomly drops negative/cynical comments with defeatist mentality, then got mad at people for calling him out for not contributing anything in the conversation.

AV at 75 was attempted by multiple top end ls using absolute best setup possible, that was not even comparable to a group that multi box and lacks brd. I find it ridiculous that a 6 day old content got compared with AV just because people haven't figure things out.

Thanks, I've been lurking and am unfortunately too aware of his behavior. We see very eye to eye on the your last paragraph
 
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By 2018-08-12 14:51:17
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 Asura.Geriond
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By Asura.Geriond 2018-08-12 14:55:36  
DirectX said: »
Asura.Geriond said: »
DirectX said: »
No, because admittedly better geared people with more resources (i.e. 5 other top geared real players) are putting effort into it. The skill requirement in this game was removed years ago and basically all gear is only a matter of playtime to obtain and not skill so your petty attempt at an insult is laughable.
I know it's a meme to talk about how easy FFXI is, but you know that it's not actually true that it doesn't take skill, right?
I don't know, depends what we're talking about really. Some SCH solo stuff is skilled for sure, Avesta was skilled, etc. I have done all content in the game bar Dynamis T3 bosses (18 real player LS are rare, etc) numerous times on multiple jobs and mostly 2boxing. Wouldn't really say any of it takes much skill personally.
Then you don't know how to evaluate skill at all. Sorry.
 Leviathan.Comeatmebro
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By Leviathan.Comeatmebro 2018-08-12 14:56:19  
DirectX said: »
Being able to kill it would enable you to get ~2 thud/loud thud per full opening of a set and win 100% of the time.
You are operating under the assumption that you can open all 10 just because you killed the mimic. If that's the case, it is pretty significant, I would agree.

Per the update notes:
Quote:
If you are unlucky, all the treasure chests will vanish and you will have to engage in combat against a fierce mimic.
* If you best the mimic, the gold treasure chest will appear once more and you may open it to clear the battlefield.

It says nothing about the brown chests reappearing. This would mean being able to kill it only gives you the difference between chest where you would have otherwise exited, and chest where you pick mimic. Nowhere near double the drops.
 Asura.Eiryl
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By Asura.Eiryl 2018-08-12 14:56:48  
Asura.Geriond said: »
I know it's a meme to talk about how easy FFXI is, but you know that it's not actually true that it doesn't take skill, right?

It's the MOST true thing you can say about ffxi. Chimps birds and gerbils can stand on crtl and peck/paw 1 and 2 and perform with gearswap.
 
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By 2018-08-12 14:58:16
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 Leviathan.Comeatmebro
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By Leviathan.Comeatmebro 2018-08-12 15:00:52  
In almost all cases, you have 2 potential timelines going. You can move and you can cast or use an ability. Once you use an ability, you have a 1.75 second cooldown. Once you use a spell, you have 3-4 second cooldown. Most fights require no positioning once the fight starts unless the monster is moved.

Thus, you're capping around 30 actions/minute, and most of them are only moderately time-sensitive. If you cure late, you're just as likely to heal an extra hit and get a more effective cure as you are to have the person die on most content. If you ws late, ftp scaling makes up most of your difference.

There is no advanced degree of thought in most jobs play, and even a WHM can at most do a little preemptive curing. The game is not difficult by any stretch of the imagination.

Play even the most basic MOBA, FPS, RTS, and you will see that FFXI is not even 1/10 the game those are in terms of skill. To rate it anything but low-skill would be doing a disservice to games that actually require more than a basic knowledge of mathematics(or the ability to read forums) to excel in.

A player with decent practice and macro setup can effectively play 3 or more characters WITHOUT automation. Good luck playing even 2 in any non-MMO.
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By Afania 2018-08-12 15:03:10  
DirectX said: »
FYI also I could point to several threads where Afania is spamming nonsense over and over and getting destroyed yet repeatedly humiliating themselves and can't stop themselves.
Much more than the 1 lolmnk thread where people are acting like it means anything (hi2u DRK WAR killing faster). The irony is astounding, yet humorous.


I don't troll in buy and sell thread though, nor I resort to personal attacks in a debate like you unless others start it and went overbroad.

Also I thought you made up your mind to never reply to my posts already, changing your mind so fast?
 
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By 2018-08-12 15:04:12
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