Dev Tracker - Discussion

The list was based on, as the title states, whether the +3 upgrade is worth the cost. That, along with the fact that these are just my own opinions that arent worth a damn:


The extra flee from +2 to +3 is 1 second. You can decide if one extra second (5-8 yalm) is worth 6m+


AFAIK, this can be done at +2 hands right? It's just Chainbound tier 1, nothing increases with +3. In this case, they are just a macro swap to create a SC, no? I have the +3 hands personally, but observed nothing different than the prior +2 version.


Maybe. Empyrean +3 comes with a ton of macc, so I had this in mind when I consider these Yes*/No* or whatever decisions. It probably comes out to more Magic Accuracy in total, but the idea behind this list is whether or not its necessary/worth it to +3 the piece. (Actually the QD+ pieces have a TON of magic accuracy, so that's a flat out oversight on my part, see dont take my words worth anything). YMMV, so I don't disagree with anyone's personal reasoning, but just based off my own gearing, I didn't bother with a few extra Magic Accuracy just for light/dark shot land rate, but I could just be totally wrong/gimping it up and didn't math it properly. The legs on the other hand has +15 Snapshot, which are the highest you can get in that slot unless I'm mistaken. Looking at it from the lens of not having flurry (like Gaol or Sortie (rare)), I included it because it makes gearing to the cap overall easier. Something like Arebati KI2 you're unlikely to have Flurry, so the legs are good. But again, you can argue "is it worth 5-6m in upgrade mats?", so the argument about it being less useful is valid.

One extra second of Flee duration over the +2 version's +17 isn't particularly meaningful.

The extra 6% movement speed over the +12% on the +2, for when that Flee wears off, on the other hand...

WFH Fridays, already have excel open, nobody responding to IMs or emails, might as well

I'd sooner upgrade DNC feet than the head. Step acc is overkill and Samba duration doesn't increase past the +1, so head is primarily a DW piece for non defensive sets with low magic haste.

26 MAB with Cardinal Chant +100 head (taking damage since that's what you're probably interested in using CC for) plus 19 skill. Whats that, 44-45MAB or so for non-RA when Mob is to your East? Idk, never did the math, I look at Cardinal Chant like Tenuto tbh (if I can find a use for it, nice, but it never works out organically). I suppose MBB+44 (does this count towards or exceed the cap) if you could somehow take advantage of a North-positioned monster, that would be a nice bonus to Magic Bursts. Again, just never got real utility out of Cardinal Chant, was always a thing that just "kinda" works out (and idek how I would gear for something like that situationally, make a Cardinal Chant Mode? lol)

Good argument, duly noted. I didn't even realize the duration never changed, but I do have it in my steps set just because of the high acc. +82 is cool. In either case, swap head for feet, the number of DNC AF to upgrade past +2 stays the same whichever way you roll, just depends if you value jig duration over step accuracy

FWIW, even though I state my thoughts on which piece I would or would not make, I went ahead and +3'd probably every piece except maybe a handful anyways, just because. If someone were to give me a working list a long time ago on which ones to "make", what I posted is close to what I would have like to know back then. It means nothing to me now, but someone else might get use out of it. IDK

Wrt to is anything cardinal chant worth it, the answer is always no.

GEO: position the mob there and everyone stand here so I can get cardinal chants MAB

everyone else:

While it's next to impossible to get party collaboration to take advantage of Cardinal Chant, the Magic Burst Bonus it gives works as a job trait, so it goes past the gear cap and is multiplicative with everything else. It's very worth trying to position for it when bursting (less so when freenuking, but even then it's still free MAB so if you can why not), within reason.

So while the trait itself is good... the +22 MBB that the af+3 head gives is entirely irrelevant compared to what you lose by not using Ea Hat +1. Might as well not make it at all.

You'll probably gain more ground by using ja0wait blinking away the animation.

On a piece by piece basis, Empy+3 beats them, and Empy+2, Malignance, and augmented Ikenga are also competitive (Ikenga gear does need Macc augment though, 1 point of Macc per level from R16-R30, so subtract 1 from the below numbers for each level below cap). Need to keep in mind that QD accuracy is based on Macc and AGI (2 AGI:1 Macc), so effective total Macc is:

Head
Empy+3: 81
AF+3: 75~76
Ikenga R30: 69~70
Empy+2: 68~69
Malignance: 66~67

Hands
Empy +3: 75
Ikenga R30: 64~65
Empy+2: 62~63
Malignance: 62
AF+3: 61~62

Feet
Empy+3: 88
Ikenga R30: 81
AF+3: 76~77
Empy+2: 75~76
Malignance: 74~75

A set with 3/5 AF+3 gets more Macc due to set bonus (Macc+15 for 2 pieces, Macc+30 for 3 pieces), but of course then you need to make multiple pieces to get the bonus. And assuming a COR has all JSE +3 available, 3/5 AF+3 set with bonus is still dead even with 3/5 Empy+3 (which is also useful for other purposes):
* 3/5 AF+3 (with Macc+30 from set bonus): Macc+243~244
* 3/5 Empy+3: Macc+244

Up to the player as to whether upgrading AF+3 is worth it solely for Sleep and Dispel accuracy on Light/Dark shots, based on how much better it is than reasonable alternatives you probably already have. Especially since the AF+3 head/hands/feet are no longer best for other purposes like QD max damage or STP sets.

Initially I wanted to say maybe it's a super niche use case for a hihgly dedicated COR... but a highly dedicated COR is is likely to also have Empy armor (hands are a staple anyway for roll duration and have WSD+12, and feet for increasing same element damage after QD).

You also have to consider whether you regularly do anything that actually relies on the COR landing Light/Dark shot sleep/dispel effects, and if so, whether those effects would regularly be resisted if using a less than BiS QD Acc set. For me as a fairly well geared but not super hardcore COR, that's approximately never. And for a super dedicated COR, see above - you'll prob want/have Empy+3 anyway.

TL;DR = nah, probably not worth it to upgrade, very niche use at best and there are other close alternatives


The QD+ on AF+3 head/boots is Quick Draw base damage only, not accuracy. And for damage on non-light/dark shots, still loses to stuff with MAB (like relic boots, Nyame or Carmine hands, Ikenga or Nyame head, etc.)

Empy set bonus is also irrelevant for QD accuracy purposes, that's also only a chance (low, 1% per item) of triple damage.

P.S. - all of that way too long post was a waste of time if they upgrade to AF+4. That would seem likely to be new BiS for at least head and feet. Just like AF+1 was back in the 75cap days.