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Dev Tracker - Discussion
 Phoenix.Iocus
サーバ: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1643
By Phoenix.Iocus 2024-12-28 13:39:22
I am a quitter and I'm your unofficial forums trying to convince you that 14+ year old content should be relevant forever. Normal video game escapism isn't good enough for me, I need double escapism. I deserve to be taken seriously and I'd voluntarily ***on any chance that your game getting it's budget spent on what you actually want if I was important enough to matter.
You could always try smoking meth. Sounds like that might be an improvement for you. You can do it while you find dune parties on the next private server you hop to.
Also who are you asking if they live in Africa, you dumb racist?
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Lakshmi.Buukki
By Lakshmi.Buukki 2024-12-28 13:45:13
This response was interesting to me
Quote: The gameplay itself has not received any changes in quite some time, so I would like to see more new elements added to it.
This is true for a20+ year old game. Have they ever made any significant changes to gameplay that was noteworthy over the past two decades? Not exactly sure what changes they'd make even if they did pursue this. FFXI plays slow and feels just the right pace for the kind of game it is. I struggle to think of a gameplay element they could change or implement that would invigorate the battle system, for example.
edit: now that I think about it more, I think they overhauled the fishing system to what it is now. And they adjusted Beastmaster Ready Move to be a charge system.
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Phoenix.Michelob
サーバ: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 38
By Phoenix.Michelob 2024-12-28 13:46:14
Quote: Also who are you asking if they live in Africa, you dumb racist?
That was clearly a comment about economics, not race. Don't mind me I just can't stand people throwing out that term where it doesn't belong.
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By kinkanat 2024-12-28 14:01:28
Exactly, it was a comment about economics, not race, but I understand that some people are not intelligent enough to understand something so obvious.
Thanks for commenting.
Asura.Eiryl
By Asura.Eiryl 2024-12-28 14:10:46
This response was interesting to me
Quote: The gameplay itself has not received any changes in quite some time, so I would like to see more new elements added to it.
This is true for a20+ year old game. Have they ever made any significant changes to gameplay that was noteworthy over the past two decades? Not exactly sure what changes they'd make even if they did pursue this. FFXI plays slow and feels just the right pace for the kind of game it is. I struggle to think of a gameplay element they could change or implement that would invigorate the battle system, for example.
I would count immanence as a significant change, allowing tp moves and making skillchains without ever touching the mob and can't miss.
I would count the normalization of all gear sets always hitting haste cap a significant change too, just to name a couple.
(addition of flurry and snapshot as well, normalization of always capping fast cast etc)
All speed related things easy to take for granted but have drastically altered the game.
***; level Sync, a mechanical/systemic change that literally saved the game for a while there. Trusts.
By Dodik 2024-12-28 14:20:16
I don't see how buffing Nin to the point it's both a powerhouse DD and a competent tank is "balancing" it.
It's already balanced. It can do it all, dd, burst, nuke, debuff, tank. It cannot do all of those all at the same time at the level of all the other specific jobs because that's not balanced.
The problem is most people just want to dd onry and don't gear/setup for the other things. That's a player problem not a job problem.
 Bahamut.Academic
サーバ: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 52
By Bahamut.Academic 2024-12-28 14:36:44
Content before abyssea were fairly straight forward Yes. Colibri parties. Rip casters!
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Phoenix.Iocus
サーバ: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1643
By Phoenix.Iocus 2024-12-28 14:44:21
Wow you both don't have to advertise that you slept through history class.
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By Nariont 2024-12-28 14:51:29
I don't see how buffing Nin to the point it's both a powerhouse DD and a competent tank is "balancing" it.
It's already balanced. It can do it all, dd, burst, nuke, debuff, tank. It cannot do all of those all at the same time at the level of all the other specific jobs because that's not balanced.
Honestly i just think nin needs to excel at something and itd be fine, before you could say "well it excels at phy dmg mitigation" but now everything encounter wise wipes shadows + deals dmg, so that needs to be looked at again or it needs to get a boost in whatever direction SE wants to take it, could be a DD buff, could improve its nuking/make it a support for nuke parties by placing some debuffs to its nin wheel that actually does something.
As is, aside from when hybrids work(which a sam can also do just as well and still excel in just general dmg) its just okay at everything
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 Bahamut.Senaki
サーバ: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 124
By Bahamut.Senaki 2024-12-28 15:32:03
Apparently everyone in XI does statics, where I rather PUG. Guess I’m a unicorn.
By Shiva.Myamoto 2024-12-28 15:49:45
I don't see how buffing Nin to the point it's both a powerhouse DD and a competent tank is "balancing" it.
It's already balanced. It can do it all, dd, burst, nuke, debuff, tank. It cannot do all of those all at the same time at the level of all the other specific jobs because that's not balanced.
Honestly i just think nin needs to excel at something and itd be fine, before you could say "well it excels at phy dmg mitigation" but now everything encounter wise wipes shadows + deals dmg, so that needs to be looked at again or it needs to get a boost in whatever direction SE wants to take it, could be a DD buff, could improve its nuking/make it a support for nuke parties by placing some debuffs to its nin wheel that actually does something.
As is, aside from when hybrids work(which a sam can also do just as well and still excel in just general dmg) its just okay at everything
I've said this numerous times. Ninja should be able to enfeeble like RDM can. Let RDM keep its Job Point spells, but give NIN the equivalent of everything else it has access to. If making more spells is the issue for whatever reason, give Ninja expendable throwing tools that have a short duration but a high accuracy of additional effect(for example sake, 30-60 second duration + 95% proc provided you have the racc to actually hit). This at least fits the roleplay and makes a completely passive skill actually engaging and useful for once. If they can't create more spells, they can easily create useful items.
I did mention this specifically in the survey, so if they introduce any changes to some jobs, I'll be curious to see what it is as I don't believe for a second that the answer is a damage buff.
By Nariont 2024-12-28 15:55:47
I've said this numerous times. Ninja should be able to enfeeble like RDM can. Let RDM keep its Job Point spells, but give NIN the equivalent of everything else it has access to. If making more spells is the issue for whatever reason, give Ninja expendable throwing tools that have a short duration but a high accuracy of additional effect(for example sake, 30-60 second duration + 95% proc provided you have the racc to actually hit). This at least fits the roleplay and makes a completely passive skill actually engaging and useful for once. If they can't create more spells, they can easily create useful items.
Id be fine if they were just brought back up to what they were(i believe anyway, could be misremembering) which was slightly above the base enfeeb spells but below the T2/3's that only RDM had access to, if more slots are the issue just make futae a sabo style lasting buff and let it apply to enfeebs(and buffs, why not, oh no NIN gets +20 STP/SB instead of 10 or 10~14 shadows that get wiped in 1 aoe, oh nooo)
But this has all been done to death in the NIN thread among other places, the job has all the pieces to excel in one area, just takes SE applying it, tankings the hardest one to pull off imo but even that could potentially be done
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By Shichishito 2024-12-28 16:01:50
Did everyone notice how they excluded BLU from their little job adjustments list and the jobs they mentioned all have some sort of inventory clog going on?
#gottosellthemwardrobes
Apparently they majority is also satisfied with where the game is at right now.
/laughsintidus
Asura.Eiryl
By Asura.Eiryl 2024-12-28 16:22:20
NIN is never going to get a consensus, everyone thinks something else is the problem.
It's good enough at everything and not good enough at anything.
Can't improve the subtle blow. (can't compete with mnk / sam in scenario)
Doesn't matter if it's almost as good as rdm debuffs. (no sleep, no cures, no hastes)
Can't replace gambit/rayke/aegis.
Can't change shadow striping. (it's super op, obviously)
Doesn't matter if it nukes harder. It should, but that's not really a thing that moves the needle. (I'd like the elemental debuff to be dramatically stronger)
The only thing they can do is make Kakka: Ni AoE, now it's a cor. And an across the board katana ws overhaul.
The only way to get a ninja IN the party is to nerf a buffer OUT of the party, and then they're just taking A/nother WAR anyway.
Bahamut.Academic
サーバ: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 52
By Bahamut.Academic 2024-12-28 17:13:34
Apparently they majority is also satisfied with where the game is at right now.
I think its multifaceted.
Not every player is at the very high-tier of endgame and are busy with what the game offers, I fall in this camp.
Then there are those that appears to me at least, being salty and bitter all the time about the game, being burned out or un-subbed a long time ago. Those players want new stuff.
And the last group of people are what I also identify with, being realists and understand its 22+ year old game with technical limitations and isn't supported like FF14 by Square-Enix in both staff and budget, even though Yoshida has stated a number of times that they share resources between the FF14 and 11 teams.
I find it hilarious that they highlighted the 75 style servers and now that group of people take that as a confirmation that is going to happen, spoiler-alert: It's won't. This group of players can't even decide which "75 era" is the correct one.
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Phoenix.Iocus
サーバ: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1643
By Phoenix.Iocus 2024-12-28 17:20:40
Did everyone notice how they excluded BLU from their little job adjustments list and the jobs they mentioned all have some sort of inventory clog going on?
#gottosellthemwardrobes
Apparently they majority is also satisfied with where the game is at right now.
#laughsintidus
Guy this isn't twitter, use your words or start using memes. Your first statement isn't coherent.
And yes the majority of surveys reported satisfied with the game because what else are you going to play if you took the time to fill out a survey for this game? If you're unhappy because they aren't putting out enough of this game to make you feel like you're satisfied but you're still less happy playing other games then satisfied is where you're at if you're being honest with yourself. You know new games are trash, that's why you're playing a 20 year old MMO.
They said they were going to need to do maintenance mode so they could keep the game going. We are through at least some of that, Cloud is next month and Limbus 3.0 is probably this year even if its gonna be November. Maybe the grass is greener over on these amazing private servers that are trying to butt in on this survey to convince SE to make a paid version of what they supposedly are loving currently. But it's probably some homebrew garbage because the logic that you want to pay to do what you're doing currently just doesn't work out at all.
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Bahamut.Academic
サーバ: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 52
By Bahamut.Academic 2024-12-28 17:29:37
To futher add to Iocus comment, they're also working on the race change feature, granted some might not care for that but I welcome it.
Lakshmi.Byrth
VIP
サーバ: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6197
By Lakshmi.Byrth 2024-12-28 17:43:01
Finally all those poor people who chose to be not-taru can fix it!
By Draylo 2024-12-28 17:45:53
What dummies keep telling them about 75 cap servers, some people just can't let it go
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By Shichishito 2024-12-28 17:57:16
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サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 158
By Asura.Sensarity 2024-12-28 18:11:57
Apparently everyone in XI does statics, where I rather PUG. Guess I’m a unicorn. Honestly I miss PUG culture, hate that it's died out tbh.
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 878
By Asura.Iamaman 2024-12-28 19:21:14
The AMA a few years ago said they'd return to job balance changes once TVR was done, but they never did and I assume probably won't. Their vision for some of these jobs is really baffling to me and IMO this is something really disappointing in a game with so many unique classes and content where some of them are so close to being much better.
BST is a good example IMO. You need a bunch of items that clog up your inventory for it to be useful, some are readily available and others aren't, it's an inventory nightmare that rivals even NIN and RNG during 75-cap. Organizing them and remembering which does what is irritating at best. The gear is a weird balance of master DT, pet DT, master damage, and pet damage, you can't really have all four and none of it balances well IMO. The better buffs are only available for pet and master, so it's useless for the rest of the party, even if they are good. The reuse timers, while I recognize they don't want people going SMN with using jugs, are irritatingly and irrationally long. Some of the debuffs, mainly Arthur, are really good, others are decent, but don't offset the loss of damage from not being able to balance DT for real content and still being useful. So it's relegated to TP draining and a few other debuffs during multi-KI Ody runs, with some tweaking it could be a lot more than that. It's on Naegling too, so there is potential there if you could find a good balance of keeping yourself and your pet alive while contributing in other ways.
I asked during the AMA if they planned on adjusting this and their response was: "We're happy with where BST is right now". So basically they are happy with it being a job for certain niche cases and the inventory disaster. I think if you asked about a lot of jobs people take issue with not being as relevant, you'd get the same answer.
I also don't think they know what to do with NIN. It's worth remembering that NIN gets a really good damage tool in the form of 3 great hybrids, people act like this doesn't exist, and it gets access to Naegling, allowing it to be a decent Savage Blade user. It can do really well in segfarms and Dynamis-D, people just don't want to mess with it or don't recognize it. It's a lot more work especially post-MLs when the edge isn't entirely there anymore, but the potential is there. I don't think we'll ever return to the days where NIN was predominately tanking, though, and I think that's also a shame because Migawari has potential in some cases. They boxed themselves into a hole with NIN after reducing the Utsusemi timer decades ago, they put it in a place where balancing is a lot harder and it was probably a mistake. It can't invalidate the other tanking jobs because it's main mechanism for tanking risks being so OP like it was during 75-cap at times. Yet, they give it the ability to mitigate attacks and damage most other jobs can't. OTOH if they buff it's physical damage, the effect of their other capabilities risks it being too OP. Blade: Ten should be better, but they won't do anything with it because in their mind, this is the balance. They've balanced it into a corner, likely because they didn't know what the correct vision for the job was from day one and most relevance adjustments would swing it one way or another.
My question with NIN and BST mainly is: if they are happy with their vision for these jobs, what exactly is that vision? Both of these jobs strike me as something that existed under multiple project managers who all have different visions for what it should look like, only for the end result to be a fuddled mess because it has gone through so many iterations with different visions.
I do like the idea of improving NIN's debuffs, though....I'm not sure it'd pull it into greater relevance but I always thought it'd be interesting to find a balance of debuffing element resistance with a spell then using a hybrid aligned with that element. The problem is most stuff doesn't live long enough for this to be worth it OR it already has a lot of high resistance to hybrid damage like most Gaol bosses
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By buttplug 2024-12-28 19:24:14
Let's go do a pick up group for
Oathsworn Blade Master Trial
PUP/COR/COR/COR/RDM/RNG
Just kidding have hard enough time getting people for ambuscade
Asura.Saevel
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9941
By Asura.Saevel 2024-12-28 19:44:53
Did everyone notice how they excluded BLU from their little job adjustments list and the jobs they mentioned all have some sort of inventory clog going on?
#gottosellthemwardrobes
Apparently they majority is also satisfied with where the game is at right now.
#laughsintidus
Guy this isn't twitter, use your words or start using memes. Your first statement isn't coherent.
And yes the majority of surveys reported satisfied with the game because what else are you going to play if you took the time to fill out a survey for this game? If you're unhappy because they aren't putting out enough of this game to make you feel like you're satisfied but you're still less happy playing other games then satisfied is where you're at if you're being honest with yourself. You know new games are trash, that's why you're playing a 20 year old MMO.
They said they were going to need to do maintenance mode so they could keep the game going. We are through at least some of that, Cloud is next month and Limbus 3.0 is probably this year even if its gonna be November. Maybe the grass is greener over on these amazing private servers that are trying to butt in on this survey to convince SE to make a paid version of what they supposedly are loving currently. But it's probably some homebrew garbage because the logic that you want to pay to do what you're doing currently just doesn't work out at all.
NIN does excel at something, physical damage. Naegling + TP Bonus Katana + Dakan + Innin turns it into a WS spamming monster. Can try to use Katana WS but Blade: Ten needs better mods and the non-hybrids don't scale well with TP.
The issue isn't Ninja but that there are exactly two "end game" events and mechanic nonsense prevents Ninja for participating meaningfully. It's the same for DRK, SAM and a host of other jobs. BLU gets to participate but only as a "tank". WHM doesn't even get to fight Sortie anymore with people adopting a PLD instead.
It all boils down to timed content + six party member limit. If we weren't forced into maximizing the contribution of every single slot, buff and ability, then successful groups would have more job variety.
Asura.Saevel
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9941
By Asura.Saevel 2024-12-28 19:49:02
Apparently everyone in XI does statics, where I rather PUG. Guess I’m a unicorn. Honestly I miss PUG culture, hate that it's died out tbh.
The bosses are simple too insane stat wise for PUGs to work well. "Difficulty" was SE slapping a time limit against bosses with ridiculous stats and special moves. The players then optimize on their side to negate those stats and we end up with a pretty static setup to win.
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 720
By Asura.Chaostaru 2024-12-28 19:56:02
most issues would be resolved with a event Queue..
By Dodik 2024-12-28 20:20:06
It's safe to say SE's vision for bst does not align with the player's vision for bst.
SE see it as a 'fight with pets' job, mostly solo if you're talking xp-ing. It gets wheeled out when the fight needs some special pet ability.
As such, it will always kinda suck at everything cause, hey you have a pet to play with so yay I guess.
It used to be a soloing machine, with unique among MMOs abilities. Now slapping a charm+ on gear is just trolling. It's still great at soloing but not like in the past.
Just imagine bst being able to do what it could in the past and actually charm Odyssey gaol adds and have them fight each other. Mind blowing, I know.
Really most of the pet jobs are kinda meh, and very niche. If you like them you're either all in or just have it for situational use. Could be worse I suppose. You could be a thief.
Asura.Saevel
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9941
By Asura.Saevel 2024-12-28 20:45:35
It's safe to say SE's vision for bst does not align with the player's vision for bst.
It's like the kicker in American Foot Ball, a specialty job.
All three pet jobs in FFXI are like that, either they are awesome or they suck, very little in between. I do think SE kinda screwed up with PUP though by caving to player pressure to make it "another DD". Instead I think they should of gave it MP and a set of pet-only heal and buff spells. But ohh well, at least the robot is nigh indestructible.
Carbuncle.Maletaru
サーバ: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2697
By Carbuncle.Maletaru 2024-12-28 23:07:13
Apparently everyone in XI does statics, where I rather PUG. Guess I’m a unicorn.
Lots of people want to PUG. If by PUG they mean put no effort in at all, but still clear content. People want to sit in town waiting for someone else to form a group, come up with the strategy, find the players, check everyone's gear, etc. So they can show up, do their job, and leave.
Unfortunately, there are 100 people doing this and 0 of them are willing to do any of the work.
Fenrir.Zenion
サーバ: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 216
By Fenrir.Zenion 2024-12-29 01:25:36
Really most of the pet jobs are kinda meh, and very niche. If you like them you're either all in or just have it for situational use.
I have trouble even imagining what summoner's niche is supposed to be. It used to be big spike damage, but now you need so much accuracy, and so little gear has both respectable accuracy and actual damage on it, so you either miss what would otherwise be good weaponskill damage, or hit for what may as well be okay autoattack damage.
Magic damage is even worse, I'm still not entirely convinced that avatar ilvl gives a magic accuracy improvement equivalent to the magic accuracy skill on any ilvl staff or casting club.
Buffs are near, summoner's got a few interesting or even unique buffs, and great duration on them (not quite red mage level, but six 10 minute haste 2s in one cast is pretty good), but it's just so slow that nobody is going to let you use them.
Healing... is a thing that summoner can do if it absolutely needs to.
Like, the job's got a lot of things it can do, it would be an amazing general jack of all trades except it takes forever to change tack and actually use any of these options, and very little of its kit is actually worthwhile enough to forego having a simpler specialist like, say, bard or even perennially nerfed geomancer.
Might be nice to see a stance ability that halves blood pact ward recast and doubles blood pact rage recast, or the other way around, to let the job actually choose to be a competent support or damage dealer rather than just mediocre at both.
This thread is for discussion of recent news from the Dev Tracker - News thread. Keep it civil.
Original thread by Pantafernando archived here.
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