Dev Tracker - Discussion

Maybe it's because Abyssea isn't too story focused?

Sometimes when it comes to narrative in a video game, less is more. The less dialogue/acting there are the more "immersive" it can be. See dark souls, shadows of colossus etc. These games have very limited dialogue and acting, and yet the world feels immersive.

As soon as video games start playing out like movies with tons of dialogue and acting, players have less room to imagine things. Then it either hit your spot or it doesn't, and the quality of writing/acting gets noticable.

If the quality of acting/writing in a CS isn't there, CS become a pain to watch for the players and eventually they will hate it. That's why sometimes a game with less CS can have a more enjoyable story.

IIRC, didn't SE poll their customers around this time? I think they asked us if we wanted ultimate weapons/gear or lots of side grades? SE said the results were lots of side grades. But, I give this a grain of salt, because SE tends to give us the illusion of choice so they do what they want and tell us that was the outcome of the "poll" >_>;

Well, you could be right I guess.
It's not like I hate WotG btw, it's simply my least favourite of the main FFXI plotlines.

I guess another thing that struck me in the wrong way is the fact that I would've sold my soul to be able to visit the real Tavnazia, so when they announced an expansion "in the past" of course I started dreaming that sooner or later we could've been able to visit Tavnazia!
They could've gone with a far away past, before the big war, before Jeuno existed, whatever else, instead they had to go the multiverse spacetripping with the big plot twist of your universe being a "fake" one.
Grrrr

I guess I made peace with that thing when RoV came out.
All those questions I kept asking myself, about why Altana did nothing, about what were the other prime avatars doing, why Odin was left free and so on, nothing made sense to me and it annoyed me.
But after the "retcon" they created with RoV, everything more or less sorta makes sense with Altana trying to keep certain multiverses away from the attention of the Cloud of Darkness, at least the longest possible.

To me the main core of FFXI plot has always been about Altana, "her" avatars, her "beloved" Zilart people, about Promathia.
Everything else is just a cool side-story for me :x

Even if they only have six developers on staff, it’s no excuse for the lack of quality content they’ve come up with.

Lack of developers means a lack of quantity of new content, but shouldn’t mean a lack of quality new content. The small development team decided to spend their time on Domain Invasion revamps and introducing a bunch of new gear specifically for DI that is rarely, rarely used by the majority of the player population (I’m talking about the domain invasion stat boosting gear, not the earring/waist pieces that actually have some decent use). They then came out with Unity Equipment refines through Odyssey, but the vast majority of these refines so far aren’t really sought after either. Very few best in slot pieces or pieces really worth getting.

They may add further refines to unity gear down the road or new content/gear to Odyssey, but it’s still just so puzzling on why they spent time on DI specific gear, unity equipment upgrades, and revamping High Tier Battlefields like Cait Sith all before focusing on Empyrean reforge.

I'm fearful its because the upgrades to Empy+3 will be the final major content for this game, then it will just be left "as-is".

Everything you are saying has little sense really.

1. They only made 3 basic sets with DI only stuff and one weapon for each category. The reason for this is SUPER clear. They made it for new/returning players, so they can enjoy doing DI while farming their gear. DI is now gold mine for gear for new/returning players with all the abjurations and Reisenjima and escha gear. Its also all items with old graphic and very basic stats + huge stat boost for DI. Nothing time consuming to make, nothing that needs to be balanced around end game stuff.

2. You keep saying about quality of content, but your only argument is "not good enough" rewards. Content is not only rewards. Odyssey is really fun, at least for me. You can focus on many different things and still progress toward some goals. You can play Metal gear solid on THF or annihilate stuff. You can play solo or in group. It's a great fundament to build on.

3. At least half of items that cost 1000DI points are BIS/unique and even more ar at least useful.

4. I hope you joking about Odyssey items. First of all those are items from lowest ilvl unity NMs, so they cant make them amazing, because then items from ilvl 135NMs would be op broken.
Still you have MANY bis items already like:

Sailfi belt +1
Macabre Gauntlets +1
Zoar Subligar +1
Acuity belt +1
Gelatinous Ring +1
Lugra Earring +1
Metamorph ring +1
Nourishing Earing +1
Unmoving Collar +1

and few more are not bis but also quite good.

5. Odyssey, DI and HTBF fights are all quite easy to put together. All new HTBF fights also came with very good rewards (Lilith with game breaking set tbh). DI is a fail event, but mainly because of lag, not concept itself (and they updated it to be much less time consuming now). Odyssey and HTBF fights are fun tho and provide challenge and good rewards.

6. Empyrean armor is something totally different and on another level. First of all it's 22 totally different sets that would be added at once. All having some very unique functions and job specific buffs (much more unique, specific and more complicated mechanically, than Relic or Artifact armors) that needs to be reviewed and balanced before being buffed even further. Empyrean armor is also last big job specific series of sets and give opportunity to fix some aspects of the jobs through gear. So stats on those sets is TONS of work to plan, test and balance alone. More work than all the items that came out in last few years together (including all the relic+2 and +3 too). Now you also need some huge event to introduce them too, because dropping them in some revamped event without much effort put into preparing it, would be another lost opportunity.

Eh, despite i didnt pay much atention to abyssea storyline while doing it, i do think its very interesting. The idea of apocalyptic world.

This theme though its very common in most cyberpunk stories. But actually playing in a wasted land is quite an unique feeling.

Some content really need some somehow elaborated plot behind of it to make any sense doing it. It pains me how cheap is the "story" behind Delve, Vagary, Omen, etc.

I mean, Adaberk and Ridill were the major content from like 1807 til 2010

You know, you can do DI as a returning player without the DI stat boosting equipment, right? I get your point that it makes it easier for the new players to participate, but it was already easy beforehand for new players.

You make some good points about the unity gear.

Your argument about the Empy gear though is rather flawed though. First, they don’t have to release all of the armor sets at once. Look how they did it for dynamis divergence. They released the full relic armor set over the course of like 6-8 months! Not all at once. Saying that “oh, it’s a lot to undertake with plenty of testing required” doesn’t excuse the fact that they chose to prioritize stuff like DI over Empy +2/+3. I don’t know about you, but id sure rather get the empyrean reforge before 2024 rather than more DI revampment type content

They already had everything done and ready and able to be shipped gear wise before the first dyna D released. These arent things that are made in a month. Them not releasing something immediately does not mean they dont have something done and ready to ship, it just means they arent going to ship it that day.

I completely understand that. I’m wasn’t expecting them to release Empy +2/+3 right after the relic reforge. But at this point, there’s been a lot more time between relic reforge and the eventual Empy reforge than there was between the AF +2/+3 and relic +2/+3.

Here’s a timeline summary to further prove my point: Omen came out in December 2016 along with the associated AF reforge with it / shortly after. Dynamis Divergence came out in November 2017, with the full set of zones and armor released in Spring 2018.

December 2016 to Spring 2018 is about 1.5 years. We are now in spring 2020 with no timeline on Empy +2/+3 or even the start of the armor release. The development team has had plenty of time since finishing up Dynamis Divergence to work on Empy reforge.

The game is also 17 years old as an MMO, and the devs thought it would be dead years ago, with minimal support. Its unlikely they planned for anything beyond omen, and dyna D was easy to get up and going, given dynamis zones were already their own instanced things. Abyssea has all these huge areas, so its difficult to generate an instanced based thing from that alone, so its going to be a much more intensive development that they didnt plan for after they already shifted devs elsewhere.

Eh, they don’t necessarily have to do Abyssea for Empy reforge, or they could do a condensed version without requiring to instance every zone. Also, They introduced AF reforge with entirely new content. There are many, many ways to focus on getting Empy reforge done on a reasonable timeframe consistent with that of AF/relic reforge timelines as I pointed out above, yet they haven’t done it.

Yes, they introduced AF reforged with new content... that was planned, and with a larger dev team. Which was kinda my point.

Sure. My point is that even though they continue to have a small dev team now, they are focusing on high tier battlefields and DI revamps rather than empy reforge.

The relic reforge finished coming out in Spring 2018. The fact is that it’s taken 2+ years to get to Empy reforge when it only took 1.5 years between AF and relic. We don’t even have a release date or anything yet, I wouldn’t be surprised if it doesn’t come out for another two years.

SE should be prioritizing the Empy reforge content. Instead, they are spending hours on hours revamping Domain Invasion. I’d argue that time should have been spent on Empy reforge to expedite the process of getting that content finished sooner and to compensate for a smaller Dev team.

What you are basicaly saying is they should prepare empy reforge in 2 years of giving us no new content at all, no new anything etc. Just to make empy faster instead of making empy in 3-4 years but giving us job updates, htbf, di, odyssey and more in the process.

Im sorry but as important as empy are, I would never want them to stop developing anything for like 2 years, only to give us empy armor asap.

Also you cant really compare af and relic to empy. Empy are far more job specific with their bonuses. Some pieces are totally game breaking with some augmentations and almost every single piece in every set has some significant boost to job abilities. Many of 119 empy are still used in bis sets. Its WAY more planning and balancig that needs to be done here, than for relic or af. Also like I said its the last series of jse armors, so I bet they will treat it even more special and take that last opportunity to fix aspects of some jobs through gear here.

The game would be dead with this suggestion, assuming you could, hypothetically, take time from everything they did and put it into developing empy +2/3 content. The game would not last multiple years with no updates other than monthly ambu changes.

No it wouldn’t... Are you really going to argue that the amazing Domain Invasion refine kept players from quitting? It most likely did the opposite. I’d rather them take the 0.2 seconds it takes to cycle the ambuscade changes and focus the majority of their time on Empy +3 rather than not focusing on it at all right now. And I’ll clarify: I’m not saying there shouldn’t be any new content, but rather that SE shouldn’t waste their time on stuff like domain invasion revamps.

FYI, it’s possible to focus on Empy +3 reforge and release it on a similar timeline to the time gap between AF and relic reforges (there was plenty of other content that came out between December 2017 and Spring 2018), all while releasing decent new content in the meantime

I never said to give us no new content at all. I said to stop focusing time on new content that isn’t exactly worth their time, which I would argue Domain Invasion revampment would be. As you pointed out earlier, Odyssey was a nice addition for some.

I’m making the point that SE should be prioritizing new content, like Odyssey, Empy reforge, over revamping stuff like Domain Invasion.

Yes, i am saying the new domain invasion both kept players and added more. There has been a MASSIVE lack of entry level gear that was filled by bayld item changes, ambu changes and DI changes. FFXI was hemorrhaging players until the first two changes.

Yeah I think Lothoro looking at everything only from end game player, while not everything is targeted for BIS end game players. Still even for end game players, DI provided at least 8 new very useful items.


Its a big difference for new/returning player to stand around and watching people killing dragon (sometimes from the perspective of being dead) to get you points and to actually kill the dragon yourself doing significant damage and not dying. It makes gameplay fun and you can enjoy it instead of being upset. It's also event that new/returning player will be doing daily for months, so it's important to like it. If you dont understand that, then Im not sure how I can explain it better.

Ok. Both of you make some good points about DI.

I think you’re missing the overall picture that Empy reforge should be more of a priority than it currently is. And that’s what I was trying to emphasize. We had a 1.5 year gap between AF and Relic, while we are 2+ years now between Relic and Empy with no indication of Empy coming every time soon. I’m criticizing that timeline, and I’d argue that defending SE procrastinating the Empy gear is empowering the current timeline of Empy coming out in 2024

Im not missing the overall picture. I adressed your point several times now, but maybe I wasnt clear enough. The reason why gap between relic and empy will be way bigger is because empy armor is is several times harder to reforge. Relic was mainly bunch of stat boost. Almost no unique job specific things. Even augments stayed the same since non ilvl versions. Most Empy items has augments or enhancments to job abilities. You need to really put a lot more effort to every single piece in that case. They are much harder to reforge properly. Simply boosting stats like for relics would be huge opportunity loss and I doubt SE would like to do that (look at their official responces about empy reforge questions)

I don’t completely buy the fact that it’s that much harder to reforge that it delays its release by over six months to indefinitely compared to relic. Btw, relic has enhancements to job abilities as well. They added set bonuses for Artifact armor, and if they really wanted to, they could drop the Empy gear and add the set bonuses later.

We’ll have to simply wait and see. I wouldn’t be shocked if Empy drops in 2021 or later. And then it comes down to judging and determining how much time is reasonable to make Empy reforges. If it takes them five years, would you still argue that it’s completely understandable given the complexity of the gear?

I think a lot of content is already done and finished, they like to beta test stuff for many months though.

It's a lot easier to make this stuff than it is to test it.

They recently answered some question about bst saying something like "maybe we could make something like that on bst empy reforge, let us know if you are ok with that", so at least bst empy has not even finished project, not to mention testing done and I doubt they would make some sets already and havent even finished projects for other.

They should do a weaponskill reforged. Where we can do some stupid series of quests to build a weaponskill. The tech is already kinda there with merit weaponskills where we basically pick a ws and adjust a stat modifier.

like you could be given options but you could only pick like 3-4 after a base components like:
-** choose a base attribute (str, mnd, dex, vit etc...)
- multistrike (4 - 8 hits)
- crit strike
- damage varies with TP
- deals (elemental) damage
- drains target's HP
- additional attribute
etc...the stats could be on a tier system or something~
also don't allow the custom ws to have any skillchain properties to keep it "simple".

and the quests could be like

To add STR as an additional attribute (1% modifier) get 1 Helm of Briareus. to raise it to a 100% modifier fetch a 10000.
or to add multi hit fetch 10000 ancient beast coins. or do 1000 Lv. 99 KSNM/BCNM fights
and we can have the option to respec ws components to something else within the same tier by doing a quest.

It could revitalize many different areas of the game... (just a thought i had from bed this morning)

Man, I cant choose what job to play. If I would need to decide on one custom WS I would freeze in forever "cant decide" error.