Random Politics & Religion #24

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2010-06-21
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Random Politics & Religion #24
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 Garuda.Chanti
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By Garuda.Chanti 2017-06-08 21:38:22  
Cerberus.Pleebo said: »
Nausi said: »
Cerberus.Pleebo said: »
Since when is the president allowed to just stop an investigation? Lol

The president has that authority, the abilty to pardon is in the consitiution.
Pardons don't stop investigations. It preempts the consequences.
If the subject is pardoned, the investigation has no reason to continue. You are stretching semantics here.
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 Garuda.Chanti
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By Garuda.Chanti 2017-06-08 21:45:44  
 Cerberus.Pleebo
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By Cerberus.Pleebo 2017-06-08 21:59:53  
Garuda.Chanti said: »
Cerberus.Pleebo said: »
Nausi said: »
Cerberus.Pleebo said: »
Since when is the president allowed to just stop an investigation? Lol

The president has that authority, the abilty to pardon is in the consitiution.
Pardons don't stop investigations. It preempts the consequences.
If the subject is pardoned, the investigation has no reason to continue. You are stretching semantics here.
He can pardon Flynn but it wouldn't halt the Russian investigation. The president can't just order the FBI to stop.
 Garuda.Chanti
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By Garuda.Chanti 2017-06-08 22:03:19  
Shiva.Shruiken said: »
Most democrat/independents/lefts that would be good for the job aren't interested in running. No idea what the DNC gonna do for 2020. Corey Booker?
Deep bench with 3 1/2+ years to develop it. Outliers like Garry Locke could be developed in time.

What party is Bloomberg in currently?
 Garuda.Chanti
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By Garuda.Chanti 2017-06-08 22:12:58  
Asura.Kingnobody said: »
Sylph.Shadowlina said: »
Even then if Labour decides to make a co-gov, the current predicted seats. If SNP and Lib dem decide to go into a agreement, then they still dont have a majority.

Lib dems don't want to make an agreement due to the result of the last one, and i believe SNP have said no to the conservatives so.
REALLY, we're kinda praying that somethings messy with the polls or one of those 2 parties are a bit open minded to the idea, at least willing enough to discuss maters on a vote by vote basis. Which makes a super unstable government.
You guys fuuuuuuuuuuuucked.
It could almost be as fun as the Trump Show™
 Garuda.Chanti
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By Garuda.Chanti 2017-06-08 22:16:42  
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
Everyone should just vote for the Monster Raving Loony Party and be done with it.
We once had an Owl party in WA.

The party's name was a double acronym, standing for "Out With Logic, On With Lunacy."
 Garuda.Chanti
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By Garuda.Chanti 2017-06-08 22:24:39  
Been catching up, sorry for all the constitutive posts.

Had a 200 mi, 230 km RT drive and a circus after I got back. Hadn't been to a circus in forever, small one aimed at small towns like mine.

And it had several, politically incorrect, animal acts.
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 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2017-06-08 22:40:53  
Sylph.Shadowlina said: »
Lib dems don't want to make an agreement due to the result of the last one, and i believe SNP have said no to the conservatives so.
REALLY, we're kinda praying that somethings messy with the polls or one of those 2 parties are a bit open minded to the idea, at least willing enough to discuss maters on a vote by vote basis. Which makes a super unstable government.

<.< >.>

This is how the US has worked since shortly after it was created.
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By Ruaumoko 2017-06-08 23:33:16  
To recap the carnage of the election thus far.

  • Conservative Party was projected, by various polls, to win a comfortable majority of at least 80 seats.

  • Conservative Party has instead gone from having a majority to losing it in a rather spectacular manner.

  • The UK is now facing a 'Hung Parliament' (yes, really, it is called that). This occurs when no party has enough seats in parliament to form a majority government.

  • Hung Parliaments mean VERY unstable economies, and indeed the Pound Sterling has fallen off the fiscal cliff.

  • Brexit negotiations were meant to begin in 11 days time... I don't think that's happening now as there's practically no government to negotiate.

  • A minority government is in no position to negotiate for an entire nation, let alone a union of nations, and the negotiators in Brussels know this and will exploit it fully.

  • Theresa May, the current Prime Minister, is expected to resign. Losing in such a colossal way to a socialist opponent in this manner is game over really.

  • Amber Rudd, the Home Secretary of the incumbent Conservative government has is now on her FIFTH recount of her constituency after it looks very apparent that she has lost her seat.

  • Amber Rudd was a contender to take over from Theresa May if/when she resigns, but she can't be nominated if she doesn't have a seat in parliament. This is an absolute disaster for the Conservatives.

  • Boris Johnson, the only remaining MP with any ground-swell to take over has seen his majority vote in his own constituency wiped out - he has only just held onto his seat.

  • UKIP, the champions of Brexit, now have no seats in parliament and their party is facing certain extinction.

  • The Labour Party (left wing, at least now it obviously is) has seen the greatest increase in its share of the vote (40%) since Clement Atlee defeated Winston Churchill in 1945.

  • Jeremy Corbyn and his Labour Party have pulled off one of, if not the most shocking upsets in British political history; taking constituencies that had been held by Conservatives for decades if not centuries.



All-in-all... it's been a night of horrors for the right wing in Britain.
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 Garuda.Chanti
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By Garuda.Chanti 2017-06-08 23:46:55  
Darnit, 320 km.

Also Theresa the Appeaser isn't near as good as Maggie Thacher the Milk Snatcher.
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By Nausi 2017-06-08 23:55:05  
looks like it's more terrorism for the UK.

I salute you it takes guts to go full feels over facts.
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By Viciouss 2017-06-08 23:57:46  
Nausi said: »
looks like it's more terrorism for the UK.

I salute you it takes guts to go full feels over facts.

How is it "full terrorism" when they voted out the PM that made huge cuts to law enforcement? Its ok nausi, we know you don't know anything, most of us don't know UK politics, but the difference is, we don't pretend to.
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By Ruaumoko 2017-06-09 00:01:57  
Hung Parliament is now officially confirmed.

Get the beer and popcorn in, this is going to be good. If you thought the fall-out from Brexit was amazing... watch this.
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By Ruaumoko 2017-06-09 00:08:04  
Nausi said: »
looks like it's more terrorism for the UK.

I salute you it takes guts to go full feels over facts.
Sorry, but have to call this out.

Before she was Prime Minister Theresa May was the Home Secretary who oversaw over 20,000 lay-offs of active police officers and who ran the system designed to track extremists into the ground.

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/june2017/2017/06/theresa-mays-police-cuts-have-returned-haunt-her

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jun/05/theresa-may-police-cuts-margaret-thatcher-budgets

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/london-attack-bridge-theresa-may-police-cuts-conservative-terror-terrorism-general-election-a7773746.html

The fact that the UK has had so many terrorist attacks under the Conservatives is not shocking in the slightest.
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 Bahamut.Ravael
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2017-06-09 00:18:25  
Rises in terrorism are a multi-faceted issue, but being the poster child for a reduced police presence isn't exactly helpful to your cause. Whoever replaces her not only has to reverse that, but also figure out a way to deal with the hilariously under-equipped and under-trained force that's already there.
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 Shiva.Shruiken
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By Shiva.Shruiken 2017-06-09 00:30:25  
Garuda.Chanti said: »
Shiva.Shruiken said: »
Most democrat/independents/lefts that would be good for the job aren't interested in running. No idea what the DNC gonna do for 2020. Corey Booker?
Deep bench with 3 1/2+ years to develop it. Outliers like Garry Locke could be developed in time.

What party is Bloomberg in currently?

I wish Bloomberg wanted the job.
 Sylph.Shadowlina
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By Sylph.Shadowlina 2017-06-09 02:11:39  
A smaller update. May has stated that she isn't going to resign, but there is increasing pressure to do so. There was calls for it after 7 seats declared.
The last hung parliament in 2010 as a reminder, resulted in 5 days of negotiations.
 Asura.Vienner
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By Asura.Vienner 2017-06-09 02:18:30  
Sylph.Shadowlina said: »
A smaller update. May has stated that she isn't going to resign, but there is increasing pressure to do so. There was calls for it after 7 seats declared.
The last hung parliament in 2010 as a reminder, resulted in 5 days of negotiations.
The last time this happened in Belgium in 2010 it took 541 days to form a goverment, think we hold the world record for that.
Does a hung parliament mean, you're looking at a government who doesnt have the support to change much?
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By Sylph.Shadowlina 2017-06-09 03:21:46  
It means no one party has, I believe, 50% of seats. Meaning that technically we now have an unstable government.
In 2010 when we had the same occur, the conservatives made up the gap by forming an agreement with the lib Dems for there seats to vote conservative bills through parliament.
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By Sylph.Shadowlina 2017-06-09 04:41:46  
Paul nutall leader of UKIP, just resigned.
 Cerberus.Tidis
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By Cerberus.Tidis 2017-06-09 05:24:46  
In UK politics they often talk about a working majority and will discount the Sinn Fein seats as they currently refuse to sit in Westminster, as such will never vote on policies. While in practice a party needs 326 for an official majority, 322 will be enough due to the 7 Sinn Fein MPs who will never sit in Westminster thus never cast their vote.

So with 318 the Tories fell 8 short of an overall majority, 4 short if you discount the Sinn Fein seats and it looks like they are going to pursue a minority government, supported by the 10 seats of the DUP.
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By Cerberus.Tidis 2017-06-09 05:28:10  
Look out for any by-elections, with such a small working majority, any by-elections could throw this whole thing into a brand new mess.
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By Sylph.Shadowlina 2017-06-09 05:28:13  
Cerberus.Tidis said: »
In UK politics they often talk about a working majority and will discount the Sinn Fein seats as they currently refuse to sit in Westminster, as such will never vote on policies. While in practice a party needs 326 for an official majority, 322 will be enough due to the 7 Sinn Fein MPs who will never sit in Westminster thus never cast their vote.

So with 318 the Tories fell 8 short of an overall majority, 4 short if you discount the Sinn Fein seats and it looks like they are going to pursue a minority government, supported by the 10 seats of the DUP.
Yes, with of course big issues for many about DUP is that they have some Homophobic views, as well as are very anti-green themselves.

Honestly apart from that though i cant say i know much about DUP
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By Cerberus.Tidis 2017-06-09 05:33:53  
Sylph.Shadowlina said: »
Cerberus.Tidis said: »
In UK politics they often talk about a working majority and will discount the Sinn Fein seats as they currently refuse to sit in Westminster, as such will never vote on policies. While in practice a party needs 326 for an official majority, 322 will be enough due to the 7 Sinn Fein MPs who will never sit in Westminster thus never cast their vote.

So with 318 the Tories fell 8 short of an overall majority, 4 short if you discount the Sinn Fein seats and it looks like they are going to pursue a minority government, supported by the 10 seats of the DUP.
Yes, with of course big issues for many about DUP is that they have some Homophobic views, as well as are very anti-green themselves.

Honestly apart from that though i cant say i know much about DUP
So they hate moderators too?
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 Sylph.Shadowlina
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By Sylph.Shadowlina 2017-06-09 05:36:18  
Cerberus.Tidis said: »
Sylph.Shadowlina said: »
Cerberus.Tidis said: »
In UK politics they often talk about a working majority and will discount the Sinn Fein seats as they currently refuse to sit in Westminster, as such will never vote on policies. While in practice a party needs 326 for an official majority, 322 will be enough due to the 7 Sinn Fein MPs who will never sit in Westminster thus never cast their vote.

So with 318 the Tories fell 8 short of an overall majority, 4 short if you discount the Sinn Fein seats and it looks like they are going to pursue a minority government, supported by the 10 seats of the DUP.
Yes, with of course big issues for many about DUP is that they have some Homophobic views, as well as are very anti-green themselves.

Honestly apart from that though i cant say i know much about DUP
So they hate moderators too?
Yes, seems so. But i cant get clear information, at least not from the BBC anyways.
 Asura.Kingnobody
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2017-06-09 06:05:44  
Cerberus.Tidis said: »
Sylph.Shadowlina said: »
Cerberus.Tidis said: »
In UK politics they often talk about a working majority and will discount the Sinn Fein seats as they currently refuse to sit in Westminster, as such will never vote on policies. While in practice a party needs 326 for an official majority, 322 will be enough due to the 7 Sinn Fein MPs who will never sit in Westminster thus never cast their vote.

So with 318 the Tories fell 8 short of an overall majority, 4 short if you discount the Sinn Fein seats and it looks like they are going to pursue a minority government, supported by the 10 seats of the DUP.
Yes, with of course big issues for many about DUP is that they have some Homophobic views, as well as are very anti-green themselves.

Honestly apart from that though i cant say i know much about DUP
So they hate moderators too?
They are a little behind the times.

Aelius and Krizz have already lost modship, and the current group (other than the Oklahoman) isn't doing too bad.

Unless, of course, The Lina™ is what they are after.
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 Asura.Kingnobody
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2017-06-09 08:05:29  
Candlejack said: »
pants on head mentally ill
No Candlejack, they didn't elect Obama.

That's not how it works in Britain....
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By Nausi 2017-06-09 08:21:03  
Cerberus.Pleebo said: »
Garuda.Chanti said: »
Cerberus.Pleebo said: »
Nausi said: »
Cerberus.Pleebo said: »
Since when is the president allowed to just stop an investigation? Lol

The president has that authority, the abilty to pardon is in the consitiution.
Pardons don't stop investigations. It preempts the consequences.
If the subject is pardoned, the investigation has no reason to continue. You are stretching semantics here.
He can pardon Flynn but it wouldn't halt the Russian investigation. The president can't just order the FBI to stop.

Comey sorta reminded the committee that the president in fact CAN direct the FBI to stop any investigation he wants.
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