Jack Of All Trades: A Guide To Red Mage

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Jack of All Trades: A Guide to Red Mage
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 Asura.Byrne
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By Asura.Byrne 2019-02-17 23:45:12  
Ideally they shouldn't be banking on just sleepaga, if the RDM is RDM/BLM they should open with elemental seal and Sleepga, then when the NM is pulled, Saboteur Distract/Frazzle/Slow/Para, pull off composure for recast speed, and Sleep 2 on all the Qiqirin individually. Not only will that last longer, but they will wake up one at a time, preventing total chaos from ensuing if they don't know their timers down to the second.
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 Asura.Eiryl
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By Asura.Eiryl 2019-02-17 23:47:04  
Yeah but theyre hot garbage and thats not happening. so. It'd be great if they would. asura.
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 Asura.Sechs
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By Asura.Sechs 2019-02-17 23:48:21  
Personally I prefer when they wake up together, I just sleepga them again without even disengaging
 Shiva.Xelltrix
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By Shiva.Xelltrix 2019-02-18 07:16:12  
I went out and timed my sleeps since trying to determine the new Saboteur formula was confusing the hell out of me and this is what I got (give or take a second):

Sleep 1 w/ Saboteur
Leth. Gantherots +1 -- 3:15
Regal Cuffs -- 3:39

Sleep 2 w/ Saboteur
Leth. Gantherots +1 -- 4:38
Regal Cuffs -- 5:12

I have the R20 Duelist's Torque +1 alongside the other duration gear (Kishar's Ring, Regal Cuffs) as well as max JP. Regal Cuffs have better duration than Gantherots even when Saboteur is up, so you will want to use those on all static debuffs.


Sleep duration without Saboteur obviously unchanged (Base Duration x Nonaugmented Duration Gear x Augmented Duration Gear) so that's 2:05 Sleep, 2:51 Sleep 2 for me which means over a minute increase for Sleep and over two minutes for Sleep 2.

You could probably go /sch and Manifestation + Sleep 1 all of the Qiqirn then Manifestation + Sleep 2 them all again with Saboteur and be able to kill them all before they wake up if you have a good group.
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 Cerberus.Shadowmeld
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By Cerberus.Shadowmeld 2019-02-18 08:24:58  
Asura.Byrne said: »
Ideally they shouldn't be banking on just sleepaga, if the RDM is RDM/BLM they should open with elemental seal and Sleepga, then when the NM is pulled, Saboteur Distract/Frazzle/Slow/Para, pull off composure for recast speed, and Sleep 2 on all the Qiqirin individually. Not only will that last longer, but they will wake up one at a time, preventing total chaos from ensuing if they don't know their timers down to the second.

Are you finding that you need Elemental Seal to sleep them? I have had no issues landing anything (except slow II and gravity all month). Slow II I always get after 1 immunobreak
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By Nariont 2019-02-18 09:04:24  
only thing ive noticed is some occasional half-resists, with sabo how it is now e.seal feels kind of redundant, so i can see the appeal of /sch if you plan to use other arts/using a strat to lower cost on impact or something since all you got /blm for is sleepga
 Lakshmi.Buukki
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2019-02-18 09:05:36  
Asura.Eiryl said: »
Yeah but theyre hot garbage and thats not happening. so. It'd be great if they would. asura.

Spot on assessment
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By Afania 2019-02-18 11:24:54  
Nariont said: »
only thing ive noticed is some occasional half-resists, with sabo how it is now e.seal feels kind of redundant, so i can see the appeal of /sch if you plan to use other arts/using a strat to lower cost on impact or something since all you got /blm for is sleepga

If your team can kill mine reliably then /sch, if your team cant then /blm imo.

Casting sleep2 one by one takes more time, so its less time to do everything else such as DPSing. It saves a lot of time to just aoe sleep2 and done.

RDM can dps with just sangine blade + enspell and never interrupt DD SCs. So the less you cast spells then more dps you do.

If mine blow up though, /sch can be dangerous if both book charges are used with all 5 woke up together and kibosh people. In that case /blm is more safe.
 Asura.Topace
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By Asura.Topace 2019-02-20 13:47:00  
Anyone one the Minimal requirements or set for landing stuff on Wave 3 dyna? Never done it on rdm don't want to take my *** in there and start getting resisted.
 Asura.Toralin
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By Asura.Toralin 2019-02-20 14:23:54  
Asura.Topace said: »
Anyone one the Minimal requirements or set for landing stuff on Wave 3 dyna? Never done it on rdm don't want to take my *** in there and start getting resisted.
you will be resisted on wave3 no matter how high your gear is. Prepare for your feelings to get hurt.
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 Asura.Nuance
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By Asura.Nuance 2019-02-20 14:52:44  
The normal volte aren’t bad. It’s the boss volte that are really douchey. Especially if you want to land silence. Frazzle III / AG Rank15 murg with AM and all bis magic Accuracy gear food etc I get resisted on silence a ton still often times they just die before I can land it.

Generally I just open with frazzle 2 with accuracy gear then 3 with potency then work my way down the list of what’s most important for x mob.

There’s only one I blow stymie silence on and that’s the BLU “Volte Joiner”.
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 Asura.Topace
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By Asura.Topace 2019-02-20 15:50:31  
Ahh so would /blm be better than /sch for ES on W3 boss? Or does it not really matter?
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By Torzak 2019-02-20 15:55:42  
Wave 3 bosses aren't hard to enfeeble.
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By Afania 2019-02-20 15:58:05  
Asura.Topace said: »
Ahh so would /blm be better than /sch for ES on W3 boss? Or does it not really matter?


/blm is overall better than /sch in dynamis if you dont have to DD/heal IMO. Mostly quick aoe sleepga without needing book charges. ES helps on volte boss too.

Stun can save lives on NIN mob too.

/sch doesn't do much if you aren't healing/nuking I think.
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 Asura.Cicion
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By Asura.Cicion 2019-02-20 16:22:51  
I think the benefits of /sch is to good to pass up unless a geos stubborn not interested in /blm or brds lazy. Problem with silencing nms on wave3 is you need to immunobreak them a ton to land silence. By the time you get to that point its adds and it are already dead from my experience. (Geos even help with that as well and still takes forever. I use them Immunobreak+1 Chironic Hose as well) Only wave 3 NMs that would rly want it on is blu and rdm. But hey if ES works thats a + can only stymmie 1.

Sad truth is if your not HQ everything gear wise and stewpot its just gonna be a resist fest for you on wave 3. Mind you i'm speaking from before the recent rdm adjustments. I usually don't get geo support for macc ever so it's just my gain Mnd and gear. I dont have issues landing on wave 3 nqs. The odd Nm will resist a frazzle cast. Sometimes the Nms beastmaster pet will resist the sleep i cast on it and needs a 2nd.(Hello Kaja bow upgrade) Otherwise i'm gucci. Wave 3 mega boss is easy to enfeeble.
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By Afania 2019-02-20 16:31:56  
Asura.Cicion said: »
I think the benefits of /sch is to good to pass up unless a geos stubborn not interested in /blm or brds lazy.

Geo still benefit from /rdm more I think. Some extra emergency cure/raise and extra silence to proc immunobreak is nice.

Since brd sits in DD pt but not rdm, it's often more ideal for them to spend more time on DDing instead of running back and forth CCing.

Just for your reference, according to last dyna parse, the best cor was like 23%, the worst DD was 12%, brd was 11%. So more dps is more dps imo.

I'd prefer to let rdm do most of the CC/stun role if rdm sits in tank pt and have another healer healing the tanks, personally.
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 Asura.Byrne
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By Asura.Byrne 2019-02-20 16:44:34  
Asura.Toralin said: »
Asura.Topace said: »
Anyone one the Minimal requirements or set for landing stuff on Wave 3 dyna? Never done it on rdm don't want to take my *** in there and start getting resisted.
you will be resisted on wave3 no matter how high your gear is. Prepare for your feelings to get hurt.

You can land enfeebles as RDM with perfect gear without food, and without even having Gain MND on. So this comment is inaccurate by at least 120 m.acc.

Edit: For this matter, Distract can often be landed before frazzle, so maybe even more. If I have trouble landing frazzle 3, usually using Saboteur prior to it is enough to land it, even on the Volte Leaders (except the SAM for some reason). If you are having trouble with it, try casting Frazzle I in pure m.acc gear, Frazzle II in a high m.acc set with regal gem vice Kaja bow, and finally Frazzle III in full potency gear. You'd be surprised how often you can make things land.
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 Asura.Byrne
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By Asura.Byrne 2019-02-20 16:49:37  
Asura.Nuance said: »
The normal volte aren’t bad. It’s the boss volte that are really douchey. Especially if you want to land silence. Frazzle III / AG Rank15 murg with AM and all bis magic Accuracy gear food etc I get resisted on silence a ton still often times they just die before I can land it.

Generally I just open with frazzle 2 with accuracy gear then 3 with potency then work my way down the list of what’s most important for x mob.

There’s only one I blow stymie silence on and that’s the BLU “Volte Joiner”.

Assuming you're /BLM you should be saving ES for the Volte Leaders that need silence. They generally aren't going to be on every circle.

In these cases, even if you're faced with a Volte RDM and BLU leader at the same time, you can ES one, and stymie the other.

If you have a COR, and lets be honest, why wouldn't you? You can always RD before a circle by which you can see a mage for your RDM or even WC if you know they don't have ES or Stymie up.
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 Cerberus.Shadowmeld
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By Cerberus.Shadowmeld 2019-02-20 17:13:27  
Asura.Byrne said: »
Asura.Toralin said: »
Asura.Topace said: »
Anyone one the Minimal requirements or set for landing stuff on Wave 3 dyna? Never done it on rdm don't want to take my *** in there and start getting resisted.
you will be resisted on wave3 no matter how high your gear is. Prepare for your feelings to get hurt.

You can land enfeebles as RDM with perfect gear without food, and without even having Gain MND on. So this comment is inaccurate by at least 120 m.acc.

Edit: For this matter, Distract can often be landed before frazzle, so maybe even more. If I have trouble landing frazzle 3, usually using Saboteur prior to it is enough to land it, even on the Volte Leaders (except the SAM for some reason). If you are having trouble with it, try casting Frazzle I in pure m.acc gear, Frazzle II in a high m.acc set with regal gem vice Kaja bow, and finally Frazzle III in full potency gear. You'd be surprised how often you can make things land.

ItemSet 365238

This is what I've been going as rdm on. It's a few pieces from BiS. I can't land debuffs on Volte NMs without food and at least 1 geo buff. I'm not 120 macc off of BiS. I'm probably 50.

My Grio is 30 macc 15 enfeeble,
Chironic hose are +32 macc

I've got Kaja bow now, so maybe that will help, and the other pieces are +10 macc +~2 skill for the upgrade (head/body). Vitiation boots +3 would be a slight increase over Skaoi. And of course Duelist's Torque +2 and a second Stikini +1.
 Asura.Byrne
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By Asura.Byrne 2019-02-20 17:30:41  
So missing 30ish~50.macc from just not having R15 mythic, then feet you aren't counting the MND into how much of an improvement they are, The Chironic hose can have 40 m.acc AND 10 MND, body and head can obviously be +3, and that Kaja Bow makes a 20 m.acc difference by itself. Then there's the NQ neck vs HQ2 to consider. This makes you 50 short of BIS how?

Don't get me wrong, your gear isn't bad, but it's also not what I was saying. If you're using a stewpot with that gear and still can't land Distract in accuracy gear, I'd double check your lua to make sure you don't have some funny business going on.

My comment was in response to someone saying it's virtually impossible to land debuffs at all in Wave 3 regardless of gear, which simply isn't true.
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 Asura.Toralin
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By Asura.Toralin 2019-02-20 17:34:35  
R15 Murgy, Chironic Hose +MND15 34macc
Still feel like I get resisted alot

sets.midcast['Enfeebling Magic'].Resistant =
{main="Murgleis",
sub="Ammurapi Shield",
ammo="Kaja Bow",
head="Viti. Chapeau +3",
neck="Dls. Torque +2",
ear1="Regal Earring",
ear2="Digni. Earring",
body="Atrophy Tabard +3",
hands="Kaykaus Cuffs +1",
ring1={name="Stikini Ring +1",bag="wardrobe3"},
ring2={name="Stikini Ring +1",bag="wardrobe"},
back=gear.enf_back,
waist="Luminary Sash",
legs="Chironic Hose",
feet="Vitiation Boots +3"}
 Asura.Byrne
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By Asura.Byrne 2019-02-20 17:44:10  
I recorded a vod of me doing wave 3 and my gear is actually p much that but with Crocea instead, so 20 less m.acc and I was having very little trouble landing things reliably. I mean, when I was using distract, I wasn't even using an accuracy set and I was still landing it like 80% of the time, but then again I make liberal use of Saboteur because there's no good reason not to now. But I mean even Frazzle 3 if I did have food on, if Sabo was up it would land even on RDM and SCH leaders, except with I think one rare case where I was forced to use ES. I wasn't thinking this was something so many were having issues with. Distract in particular was very easy to land.

Silence on the other hand is particularly hard to land on the Volte RDM leader, but that's what ES/Stymie for.

Also maybe we should define as "alot" of resists, because if I'm only getting resisted on one spell that I need to pop an abil for, I really don't consider it really resisty, but I can see how someone could make that case.

Actually I know this is anecdotal, but I think the Wave 2 THF NMs are actually more resistant to Dist/Frazzle than the Wave 3 in general. But the wave 3 SAM and THF leaders are certainly an occasion where I may pop an ability.
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 Asura.Byrne
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By Asura.Byrne 2019-02-20 17:48:52  
That I think is one of the biggest problems with RDM though, and I hope it's what they are fixing in spells. Frazzle shouldn't be aligned with an element as ubiquitous as dark... maybe it shouldn't be aligned with one at all, because it seems like if you DO need it, there's no way you're landing it because it's harder to land than the other spells, generally speaking.

I mean, if you're having trouble landing Distract(Ice), Slow(Earth) and Para(Ice), chances are good that the mob is just resistant to Dark aligned elements... so Frazzle suffers.
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By Aerix 2019-02-20 20:55:10  
If

- Frazzle were non-elemental
- Dia III's Defense down rather than DoT became affected by Enfeebling potency gear
- Enspell IIs procced on multihits
- /WHM gave Curaga III

RDM would be pretty much perfect for almost all intents and purposes.
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By Afania 2019-02-20 21:06:44  
I feel if /whm gives curaga III, people will just make brd geo sub whm and heal lol.
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 Bismarck.Ringoko
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By Bismarck.Ringoko 2019-02-20 23:58:45  
Has anyone putzed around with Crocea Path B?
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By geigei 2019-02-21 01:32:39  
Afania said: »
I feel if /whm gives curaga III, people will just make brd geo sub whm and heal lol.
That would not kill whm 100% but close, allready lots of stuff is handled by /whm, pocket geo healing for 570 curaga2 and near 1k cure4.
You can argue about solace/skin and yagrush but nr1 reason for when whm is needed is big aoe heals.
 Asura.Sechs
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By Asura.Sechs 2019-02-21 02:34:27  
"kill whm" sounds like a bit of a stretch.
Think of all the fights where Yagrush makes a huge difference, or Divine Veil, or Cureskin, or the powerful setbonus empowered Barspells, or Sacrosanctity and so on.

Some of these things are clearly niches, but some others have multiple instances that still make WHM very relevant even if other jobs were to get Curaga3.
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By Aerix 2019-02-21 05:26:40  
Honestly, there's nothing wrong with bringing back BRD/WHM as a full support--some people actually enjoyed playing the job that way instead of a DD. As for GEO: in fights with a lot of AoE you'd likely have to choose between keeping bubbles up or healing due to MP concerns.

/WHM Curaga III would offer RDM and SCH the chance to play as main healers for a lot of midrange content again, whereas at the moment WHM is pretty much the only option. And even with Curaga III spam, RDM would run the risk of emptying all their MP pretty quickly even with Murgleis Convert, since they don't get MP back from healing. And SCH could actually use their strats on AoE -nas instead of Accession Cures.

Regardless, in the majority of the harder endgame content people would still bring WHM over alternatives any day due to Barspells.
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