Jack Of All Trades: A Guide To Red Mage

Hi there,

For those without any RMEA weapon, what would be the best combo in capped acc situation?
Dual colada with DA+2?

Niburu blade Path D would Also be an option if you only have 1 Colada

Colada or an Enriching Sword mainhand with Ternion+1 offhand.

Indeed that was my combo few weeks ago.

I got a 2nd colada and Im wondering what augment would be better , stp or da ?
Btw is there any cap to DA ?

And reading these previous post I was wondering if the ternion dagger +1 is better offhand

If anyone has the spreadsheet for comparing your dps for RDM ?(similar to the blu one),

EDIT: Removed BLU data as suggested below. (The point I was attempting to make was that RDM can exceed or compare to any BLU out there, in a spreadsheet, anyway, but this thread already knew that.)

I have been using Ternion +1 since returning February last year. Used to be big into soloing before I quit (2010~) and got back into the game because of a JP RDM soloer on Youtube (Gaji Gaji) who used Ternion +1 at the time. I have not gone away from it since.

Below are spreadsheets showing/comparing RDM capped haste and one with RDM at 30% Haste. The only buffs I have are self buffs. RDM Buffs: Capped GainDEX,Enspell,TemperII(30%),HasteII. I don't have the best gear by a long shot and know these spreadsheets aren't meant to mimic real in game situations. Just thought I'd share Ternion +1 since you asked and for any others curious.

RDM Capped Haste:


RDM 30% Haste:

Edit: I was proven wrong by Boshi below, Although the numbers are rather close Ternion does win! It's very close and in a world where you get lucky a lot Ipetam can win, but that's only if you're in that lucky world.

Thanks for your post. Good stuff with solid suggestions. Much appreciated.

All three Ipetam options lose to both Ternion+1 and agMandau offhand.

You mind sharing why they lose? Also, did you take into account WSD with extra crit, and wsd? If you have a spread it'd love to see numbers behind it instead of just "they all lose this wins" as that proves almost nothing, I believe you but i'd like some numbers.

Question regarding this- could this be a case where, as often happens, white damage is improperly biased in the spreadsheets (as I have seen mentioned in other job forums)? I am not as versed in the spreadsheets, I will openly admit, but this is a complaint about them that I have seen before with the new bias in the game towards WS damage.

Ternion +1 winning out wouldn't surprise me at all. Don't forget about the significant discrepancy in delay.

Top Rows: no additional buffs than ones below
Bottom Rows: corsair 11s on sam/chaos
Target Tojil for all of these.
(note: the way i did dagger i forgot i took off suppo so all of the results with a dagger about a single 1 dps short. I didn't feel like retaking all the ss just for that)

Hume RDM/NIN
Capped magic haste, Dia3
composure on, Temper at 30%
sublime Sushi+1
gain-dex for almace, gain-str for sequence
generic geo frailty

The Colada used in the Almace comparisons is an extremely unrealistic dmg+20 dex+15 acc20 att20 da+4% and is there mainly to showcase the importance of offhand delay.

In this situation acc is capped, but attack is not quite capped.(which should favor ipetam over ternion)

For all of them I just left enspell at 30, it's hard to judge how much it'll do, for the majority of stuff this is an underestimate. Clearly higher enspell dmg favors ternion.

WS sets used:
CDC

Taeon: acc/att20, critrate3, critD3
note: only on the hands: jhakri+2 seem to win if attack is lacking

Savage

note: this set generally wins
at capped attack:
head despairD, ring Rufescent, hands Atrophy+3

~~

additional note on tp sets:
Taeon body 20/20/7/7/2 beats ayanmo even on trivial fodder, but it's never a big gap.
Taeon hands 20/20/7/7/2 beat ayanmo even adjusting for 15 enspell dmg

dw cape generally wins, especially with sam rolls on. stp cape falls off very fast when sam roll comes on. Stp cape holds up better for sequence than it does for Almace (even da cape comes stronger with very low sam rolls). But in general the dwcape -vs- eabani/reiki -vs- suppo/carmineDleg gaps are very small.

For tp taeon 20/20/7/7/2 generally seems to win which is probably due to rdm's low attack. Only on trivial fodder does the critdmg+3% augment in that dusk slot seem to matter, which I was surprised about.

~~ Additional note: for same almace conditions:
AGMurg/AGAlmace
no rolls: 1952.935
11sam/chaos: 3174.735

Why does no one consider using reiki yotai + 4dw chironic gloves?

edit: forgot to adjust gift acc/att for blu->rdm (ty Galaga@Carbuncle) It doesn't change any of the priority list just lowers the number some. ill change that and repost the picture when I get home tonight

I have been gone for about 4-5 months and just came back. I was working on getting my RDM geared up. Omen is completely foreign to me as is the +2 ambuscade gear. Just generally curious if there are any pieces I should look to grab?

Also what are currently the best offhands for Excalibur (Or is excal even worth using anymore) ?

It's worth mentioning that for Sequence based Savage Blade sets, one aught not forget the importance of Karieyh ring if you have one, and that if you are lucky enough Merlinic and Chironic can both get dark matter augments of WSD +10% per slot, I personally got a 9% on feet, and am working on more.

(I'll compile a spreadsheet as well) but with all other slots being BIS or near BIS and with COR/GEO buffs (essentially in a capped pDIF situation) RDM is easily capable of pushing 35k-40k Savage Blades at ~1200TP. Sure, it requires reconfiguring TP sets a bit to focus on slightly higher than normal TP values, and conditions have to permit, but it's still quite good in my opinion.

A good number of you may have already known this, but figured I'd say it for anyone who may have been interested.

Certain slots are more worth it than others as the base STR/MND stats on Chironic are less desirable in some slots than others. The feet and head are both good candidates, while the legs are less compelling due to having low STR and low MND. Obviously a 10% would still be BIS, but when you're calculating how much WSD+ it takes for them to win out, the hose have the largest penalty when compared to their Jhakri +2 counterpart. Just some food for thought.

Also, not exactly being an expert in the field of RDM TP sets, could someone explain where Blurred Knife +1 sits in comparison to Ternion+1 with/without COR rolls?

Due to having a much smaller delay delta than Ternion vs Ipetam, and having OAT on it, would it end up winning? Does it lose, or are they fairly equivalent statistically?

Also for the maintainer of the guide:

on your set for "RDM TP High Acc" it currently has Jhakri +1 as the suggested piece, despite reffering to Ayanmo in the before it. The current option for that slot should be Ayanmo +2 due to not only having equal acc to Jhakri +2, but also superior dex and has plenty of Double attack and even DT.

So as far as my understanding would go with Ternion+1 for Sequence offhand, I'd like to go through a thought experiment.

It's been said in this thread that Temper II makes the OAT of Blurred Knife +1 too weak. The math of this, however doesn't seem to add up and maybe someone could help.

The thought experiment is this, you are Dual Wielding Sequence and a dagger, either Blurred Knife +1 or Ternion +1. You are so baller that you have 999 enhancing skill and your Temper 2 gives you triple strike on every single round for your main hand.

Provided you do not miss, each round will now hit at least 4 times. Already this is giving an impossible situation that favors Ternion, as the higher hits per round you have the more favorable low delay is.

Now we have the off-hand to consider. We have Knife +1 which will put us at a aggregate weapon delay of 429, and Ternion +1 which in contrast puts us at an aggregate delay of 415 (the delta here actually decreases in percentage when dual wield is applied)

Next lets assume you are using a full double attack loadout double earrings is 10% (sherida/brutal) cape is 10, feet are 4, possibly 4 TA from Taeon Tights so we'll consider that 8, Ayanmo body gives 8, and we'll say TA on hands and head as well counts as another 8 (which again at this point you've sacrificed boatloads of accuracy, and if using Ternion, this simply becomes even more pronounced.) and 3 on Belt. 1 on ring. possibly 1 on ammo as well. (and lets not forget, doing this also would cost you all of your dual wield, so it's another unrealistically unbalanced variable)

That puts you at 53 extra potential attacks if parsed as double attacks, but remember many of these are triple attacks and will be slightly higher output with less reliability)

we can look at this as your offhand being 1.53~ attacks per round, and to achieve that you've had to give up Store TP as well as a pretty large degree of accurcy, before you've even considered the lower skill of the dagger itself.

now since you're halfway to guaranteed second hit, you can say that for Blurred knife it's OAT 40% is effectively cut in half, due to proc'ing after DA/TA.

4.53* vs 4.73* average attacks per round

0.20/4.53 nets ~4.41% increased attacks per round, even in this outlandish example

Then there's the delay to contrast this against.

189+240 => 429
Vs
175+240 => 415

14/415 = 3.37% decreased delay

3.37% swing speed increase

You gain a 4.41% increase of swings vs 3.37% decrease in swing delay, these seem statistically pretty similar.

Again though you have to sacrifice plenty of Acc and Store TP to get there, and as you scale back the DA/TA a bit and ramp up the store TP, the OAT becomes more appealing.

I would say that given this scaling the only reason Blurred Knife +1 as an offhand would have lost to Ternion +1 is due to an insufficient sample size.

It may be the case that when STP is scaled back and replaced with DA/TA and Ternion, that in the situation where you have BRD/COR/GEO buffs it might win by a hair's breadth, but it seems like in all realistic situations where you don't have the rest of the party geared around supporting you as a DD, which would be the vast majority of circumstances, that Blurred +1 should win.

Bear in mind I am coming at this from the perspective of Sequence based Savage Blade melee specifically, YMMV in with regards to CDC, which is not where I am putting emphasis in this example.

TL;DR: It seems as if, were we talking about THF or DNC where your multi attack options are plentiful, the Blurred Dagger +1 would be pointless due to not offering much in that regard and not having any particular use in the sense of it not having WSD or similar stats, But on RDM, being DA/TA STP and acc starved, the potential impact of it, at least on paper, seems to be much greater. The only options you have for WSD are Ipetam and Colada, both of which have significantly higher delay... It seems like BK+1 is the way to go.

As wordy as this is though, I'd like to see if someone could walk me through where this logic could be flawed and show me the math.

there's no current maintainer of the main post atm we could post some updated sets though.

uh same setup as before (tojil, sublime+1, generic 990 frail, dia3, boost-str) and capped magic haste no other acc/att other then listed cor rolsl below:
(uh on these i have enspell set to 100 which is more realistic than the 30, I've fixed the gift acc/att to match rdm)

(same savage set - so remember these use 5/5 jhakri+2 which is not possible yet. atm best would prob be like jhak+2 bod/leg with af+3 hands jhak+1 feet and jhak+1 head or despair head)

Sequence/Ternion+1
no rolls: 2191.185
rolls: 4007.658

Sequence/blurred+1 at 40% oats rate
no rolls: 2123.430
rolls: 3906.516

Sequence/blurred+1 at 50% oats rate
no rolls: 2139.967
rolls: 3932.477

(side note: ternion->blurred is acc-7 mainhand, acc+6 offhand. At first glance it looks like it'd be an acc boost but not quite)

Thanks for the speedy reply... I guess it's just a case of things not working out in practice as it would seem like they do on paper :/.

On the bright side this means I have some upgrades I can make >:)

Actually on a side note what does Ayanmo body/hands look like vs Taeon in capped attack? I'd assume Ayanmo might be close to equal if not slightly above? Also, your sets will have some small acc problems in anything that's worth something nowadays, I personally think Taeons head, hands, legs are easily BiS for tping but Ayanmo being so close to Taeon body i think it's best to take that for the added ACC on higher content. The rest looks really good.

All REMA included, what's the best dual wield set up for rdm DD these days? currently have ag excal and sequence, but was considering building another rem.

Merg

>< prove it dancer!

There are notes about it on this very page. Although I haven't modelled it or anything, Excalibur could maybe work out well if doing multisteps. Murg is an enfeebling weapon.

I haven't check spreadsheets for very long time so it doesn't include newest gears, but I believe it completely depends on your augment luck and buffs.

WSD gears favor aeonic savage build and you can get up to 10% wsd from DM if I understand how it works correctly. Crit hit dmg augment or low attack situations favor almace CDC build.

There's also SC capabilities to consider so ideally it's probably better to gear both? Safe to say both almace and sequence are top DPS weapons depending on situations.

Unbuffed
Almace tends to be better at lower buff,
More attack you gave sequence wins out.


This is just with the single ws though, again if someone spamming something where you'd be making lights cdc almasce is better for the group.


Could also make the excal kor>sav>cdc arguement



Piercing weak you got mandau/ternion, also murgleis would win if using a sword mainhand vs the other 3.

Whats the use in having an enhancing duration set outside of a composure duration set. Wont composure generaly be up all of the time? Like unless you were stunning would the 25% more recast really hurt you that much?
I would like to understand when and why composure wouldnt be up because i really cant rhink of any use for a composire down enhancing duration set.