Jack Of All Trades: A Guide To Red Mage

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2010-06-21
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Jack of All Trades: A Guide to Red Mage
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 Odin.Taytar
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By Odin.Taytar 2020-04-06 16:43:31  
Nariont said: »
affinity gear is straight +% dmg calculated at the end of everything else, so pixie is a straight +28% not accounting for the +int on it thats also going to contribute to sanguine

Perfect, thank you!
 Asura.Vanixim
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By Asura.Vanixim 2020-04-06 16:51:53  
Cerberus.Hideka said: »
Autocast said: »
RDM get much use out of mythic or is it extremely niche/novelty?

Niche imo. its very good, dont get me wrong... but i feel its kind of fallen to the wayside when compared to titans like the Crocea/naegling.

its still good for some things, but you'll never really want to melee in it, which makes it effectively a casting stat stick at best.

maybe it has some usage under R15 Afterglow & level 3 AM, but honestly having to use DB, and losing the +500% Enspell/+100% elemental damage from croc, or the Massive boosts from Naegling? i just cant see it.

i kind of feel all the RDM REMA need some love.

1. Excalibur, and even most relics, need a modernization overhaul. they need to have their weaponskills universally beefed up across the board to match the other REMA Skills in either damage or utility. i'd change excalibur's added light damage to proc on all hits, be based on 10% of your current HP, and be effected by Enspell damage + effects and skill. make it so that paladins can do some pretty good AE hits too. +3 Refresh / +30 HP is honestly kind of sad. maybe 10 refresh and 100 HP would make it worth while? IMO One of rdms biggest let downs is that it lacks regen 3 & 4.
2. Murguleis should ABSOLUTELY have the +Enspell damage exceeding what is available on the Crocea. the idea that an auction house weapon absolutely decimates EVERY SINGLE REMA available to the job....
3. Sequence doesnt hold a candle to Crocea or Naegling in any situation. i really wish sequence didnt suck so hard. imo its worse than Xcal/Burt for paladin, Worse than Tizona/almace for BLU, and worse than Crocea/Naegling for red.
4. Almace is still pretty strong if your doing CDC. we cant hold a candle to blu CDC spams due to their superior gear access, but we can definitely still get some usage from it. id like to see something that bought it a bit higher on utility scale.

TL/DR: Get the crocea, and the naegling as a back up with Daybreak/Thibiron offhand, and never look back. Nae is needed for situations where elemental damage isnt cutting it (like omen, or this months ambu). any other setting the AE Damage from crocea is going to absolutely decimate anything the nae is going to put up, and requires ZERO Buffs to do so.

Agree and disagree. Pretty sure people can argue that the 350M (if you R15 it) can be better spent elsewhere, esp. if you play different jobs. But for hardcore RDM enthusiasts that live and die by the job, it is a nice tool in the toolbox. Highest MACC in the game, Convert becomes more like a Vile Elixir, and you can six-step for some insanity damage (credits to Aerix). With sufficient buffs you can six-step Kei.

Mandatory? Definitely not. Cool? Hell yes.
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By SimonSes 2020-04-06 19:40:31  
Asura.Vanixim said: »
and you can six-step for some insanity damage (credits to Aerix). With sufficient buffs you can six-step Kei.

How Murgleis help with 6step other than by improving TP generation? I dont see it opening any option, while:
1. Crocea path B should have higher TP generation
2. Sequence stronger skillchains
3. Excalibur opens more options to skillchain
 Cerberus.Hideka
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By Cerberus.Hideka 2020-04-06 20:54:33  
Asura.Vanixim said: »

Agree and disagree. Pretty sure people can argue that the 350M (if you R15 it) can be better spent elsewhere, esp. if you play different jobs. But for hardcore RDM enthusiasts that live and die by the job, it is a nice tool in the toolbox. Highest MACC in the game, Convert becomes more like a Vile Elixir, and you can six-step for some insanity damage (credits to Aerix). With sufficient buffs you can six-step Kei.

Mandatory? Definitely not. Cool? Hell yes.

looking at murgleis objectively:

1. Convert: Convert really lost a ton of its usage with how much MP Recovery rdm has these days. Considering 75% of things you kill, even when dark resistant, can be energy drained for over 2k MP per drain. i can count on one hand how often i actually convert any more. If im caster mode, im sub SCH, and can just aspir spam with like a 10 second recast. ive got a perfect aspir set, and getting a third to half of my MP per aspir pretty much invalidates it.
2. Magic Accuracy: MA+70 does sound nice on paper for sure..... but its only active in your main hand. This is why i argue that's a problem. The crocea comes packing a flat 50 right off the bat. this creates only a difference of 20 macc between the two weapons. Croeca however comes packing that sick as 20% fast cast, which lets you cap recasting speed from fast cast without compromising far more important slots. Not to mention, you can offhand the daybreak, while mainhanding the crocea, for one of the most potent damage combos in the game available to redmage. Offhanding the daybreak on the murgleis, is nowhere near as beneficial as meleeing in the murg is just a flat out bad idea. The croeca lets you avoid needing to weapon swap on virtually all content and is the most effective combo in the game with the daybreak. tho there is some times where i'll toss on my grivolor + strap just because of the extra skill and stuff. Id argue that murg is only good if you are struggling to land frazzle 2. once you can land fraz2 i just cant see it being worth the insanity tier of investments needed. were talking probably a billionth of a percent improvement in your chance to land something.
3. you can already do this tho as long as your using ullur.... requie > Savage > Cdc > empy > Savage > CDC

and to their point - excal opens better sc options since it wont rely on archery.
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 Asura.Vanixim
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By Asura.Vanixim 2020-04-07 15:03:03  
SimonSes said: »
Asura.Vanixim said: »
and you can six-step for some insanity damage (credits to Aerix). With sufficient buffs you can six-step Kei.

How Murgleis help with 6step other than by improving TP generation? I dont see it opening any option, while:
1. Crocea path B should have higher TP generation
2. Sequence stronger skillchains
3. Excalibur opens more options to skillchain

Murgleis would really only have to do with TP generation. Sorry Simon, no hard evidence to support this, but I believe Murgleis has higher TP generation due to AM3 (I don't believe there is any non-REMA that beats a AM3 Mythic/Ergon for their respective weapon class in terms of TP generation, minus a few exceptions). Raetic comes to mind, but that is generally not sustainable (Tizona being the exception to the exception, and even then...). If this is false, please let me know as I do not want to be spreading misinformation.

Cerberus.Hideka said: »
Asura.Vanixim said: »

Agree and disagree. Pretty sure people can argue that the 350M (if you R15 it) can be better spent elsewhere, esp. if you play different jobs. But for hardcore RDM enthusiasts that live and die by the job, it is a nice tool in the toolbox. Highest MACC in the game, Convert becomes more like a Vile Elixir, and you can six-step for some insanity damage (credits to Aerix). With sufficient buffs you can six-step Kei.

Mandatory? Definitely not. Cool? Hell yes.

looking at murgleis objectively:

1. Convert: Convert really lost a ton of its usage with how much MP Recovery rdm has these days. Considering 75% of things you kill, even when dark resistant, can be energy drained for over 2k MP per drain. i can count on one hand how often i actually convert any more. If im caster mode, im sub SCH, and can just aspir spam with like a 10 second recast. ive got a perfect aspir set, and getting a third to half of my MP per aspir pretty much invalidates it.
2. Magic Accuracy: MA+70 does sound nice on paper for sure..... but its only active in your main hand. This is why i argue that's a problem. The crocea comes packing a flat 50 right off the bat. this creates only a difference of 20 macc between the two weapons. Croeca however comes packing that sick as 20% fast cast, which lets you cap recasting speed from fast cast without compromising far more important slots. Not to mention, you can offhand the daybreak, while mainhanding the crocea, for one of the most potent damage combos in the game available to redmage. Offhanding the daybreak on the murgleis, is nowhere near as beneficial as meleeing in the murg is just a flat out bad idea. The croeca lets you avoid needing to weapon swap on virtually all content and is the most effective combo in the game with the daybreak. tho there is some times where i'll toss on my grivolor + strap just because of the extra skill and stuff. Id argue that murg is only good if you are struggling to land frazzle 2. once you can land fraz2 i just cant see it being worth the insanity tier of investments needed. were talking probably a billionth of a percent improvement in your chance to land something.
3. you can already do this tho as long as your using ullur.... requie > Savage > Cdc > empy > Savage > CDC

and to their point - excal opens better sc options since it wont rely on archery.

I agree for the most part, but in terms of pure-MACC, as you stated, nothing beats Murgleis R15, hands-down (and I believe for TP generation as well, noted in my response to Simon above). I believe investing that 350M for that +20 MACC over Crocea really just comes down to personal choice. It's like how when Aurgelmir Orb +1 came out, it was easily going for 300M-350M. Do the stats from +1 justify it over NQ? For some, it does. I paid a little under 250M for it, and even then it was expensive relative to today's market where I've seen it sell for 100M. The gains are minuscule, but looked at a different way, this game is all about the collective whole of minuscule gains. So, if an item, regardless of its price tag, adds any benefit to the class, I am of the opinion it is worth having. But this is coming from a person that has the luxury to really focus on 1-2 jobs and have mules to support other roles if need be. Everyone's experience may be different, which is absolutely fine. I also took into account that if this game continues into the future, they may likely raise REMA levels beyond R15.

Again, no one should knock any RDM for not having Murgleis and I am in total agreement that it may not justify the price tag if you play other jobs, build other jobs, etc. But I think it has a place in RDM's toolkit. If anything else, it looks cool with their Empyrean gear, lol. Lockstyle is the true endgame.

Simon, it's funny that you mention Path B because that's what I'm currently building after finishing a Path C and the +2 neck (coincidentally, not even because of the follow-up but for my subtle blow set, lol). Hoping that follow-up atk ends up being as cool as it sounds.
 Asura.Nuance
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By Asura.Nuance 2020-04-07 17:53:45  
I have a R15 Murg, path b & C crocea, sequence, almace, and excalibur and if im multi steppin for whatever reason I use path B crocea over murg personally and if I gotta have that fusion property I slum it with Ullr Empyreal Arrow.

Done things like Kei a few times now and never missed an Empyreal Arrow on him myself. Not as "strong" as KoR but, Empyreal Arrow is flashy as hell to toss into the mix :C

Murg only sees action when I feel bad I dont use it, I want that mega Macc, or I happen to be in that odd position to need convert
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By SimonSes 2020-04-07 18:21:45  
Asura.Vanixim said: »
Murgleis would really only have to do with TP generation. Sorry Simon, no hard evidence to support this, but I believe Murgleis has higher TP generation due to AM3 (I don't believe there is any non-REMA that beats a AM3 Mythic/Ergon for their respective weapon class in terms of TP generation, minus a few exceptions). Raetic comes to mind, but that is generally not sustainable (Tizona being the exception to the exception, and even then...). If this is false, please let me know as I do not want to be spreading misinformation.

With high multi-attack AM3 is less effective, while follow up attack always stays the same, because it can proc on top of multi-attack proc.

I dont remember exactly how high triple attack goes now fron temper II, but lets assume 33%. If you then add 5% DA fron Sherida you are 1% DA from the brake point, where 50% follow up attack will start having more avg number of hits per round. So lets say they have very similar tp generstion. So now you would need to consider other things like am3 can proc on WS, but crocea has 30 more base damage. Crocea has +25 subtle blow II, 20% fast cast, hp and mp etc.
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 Bismarck.Indigla
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By Bismarck.Indigla 2020-04-07 18:32:30  
Up to 34% if dual wielding, 32% 33% single I believe.
 Asura.Sechs
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By Asura.Sechs 2020-04-08 03:22:27  
SimonSes said: »
So now you would need to consider other things like am3 can proc on WS, but crocea has 30 more base damage. Crocea has +25 subtle blow II, 20% fast cast, hp and mp etc.
Also Crocea doesn't require you to waste 2 WS by saving 3k TP every 3 minutes to use an inferior WS once just to activate the AM3.
Which is a process that generates a DPS loss and creates more possibilities for human error.
Crocea Mors' follow up attack is active 100% of the time with no possibility for human error and no dps loss or variability whatsoever.
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 Cerberus.Hideka
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By Cerberus.Hideka 2020-04-08 08:03:57  
yea i still cant see how the croc B/C ever loses to the murg... even with that minor 20 macc discrepancy.

like if you already have the murg, i cant blame you for justifiying its usage; but for anyone without it- it would be cheaper and more effective to just make a new croc path b. i feel almace/xcala are both better damage options compared to the murg.

i think they really need to go in, and fine tune each REMA to have specific stats based on the job.


give them a further augmentation system called Specilization, that allows you to cater the weapon directly towards one job available on the weapon, and makes each weapon have some form of utility towards the job.

E.G. - and these are just random ideas.

Murguleis - (RDM)Augments Enspell II effect (Enspell II Now activates on all mainhand hits. +600% Enspell II damage)
Excalibur - (RDM)Augments Phalanx: Enmity, defense, and HP increase based on number of active enhancement effects. (1%-30%)
Almace - (RDM)Augments Composure effect. Buffs applied under the effect of composure cannot be dispelled.
Sequence - (RDM)Augments Convert. Reduces Converts Recast to 180 Seconds. Convert now exchanges 10% HP per 1000 TP. Using convert at 0 TP, consumes 30% of the rdms max hp, for 3000 TP.
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By trinironnie 2020-04-12 10:18:44  
Since we had a change with merits what do we do with tier 2 merits now? Got points all over...
 Odin.Taytar
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By Odin.Taytar 2020-04-13 09:08:23  
If you guys were augmenting Amalric body/legs, and wanted it to be great for nuking as well as sanguine spam what paths would you take? I assume macc and mab?
 Fenrir.Aladeus
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By Fenrir.Aladeus 2020-04-13 11:39:54  
trinironnie said: »
Since we had a change with merits what do we do with tier 2 merits now? Got points all over...

depends what you wanna do. i personally have immunobreak and m.acc.
 Asura.Blitzjr
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By Asura.Blitzjr 2020-04-14 11:31:59  
Asura.Nuance said: »
Cerberus.Hideka said: »
ItemSet 371320

Tryin to work out how i see these other rdms dropping beefy *** Seraph blades in the 30k range. i'm using my ghetto Croc because im still not ready to afford 150m lol.

But the augments are what youd expect - all MND/MAB/MAD/WSD where appliciable. Viti sword is at R18 atm, so its not too far off of the Croc's end damage on Elemental + iirc its like 70% atm or somthing right now? its pretty up there.

All i ever see, is at most 10k damage at 300 TP...

Any ideas on what i'm missing?

I'm thinking Kubi > Baetyl, Shiva > karyieh (need baylds to change), but what else?

Karieyh isn’t the go to ring for seraph from adoulin. You’ll want the Weatherspoon ring for that purpose. Less you actually play other jobs that benefit.

I use the below set minus the crown as caitsith has seen fit to not allow me to have it yet;
ItemSet 368525

Currently running with a mediocre Merlinic Hood. I highly dislike the whole oseem system so I personally avoid it like the plague.

I get mid 40k range in dynamis w3 usually.

The affinity granted by the sash, ring, and club can’t be stressed enough for seraphs.


What would the augments on this cape be?
 Cerberus.Shadowmeld
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By Cerberus.Shadowmeld 2020-04-14 12:58:37  
You'd probably use your sanguine blade cape, which is 30 MND, macc/mdmg +20, WSD +10%.

If you don't have that, you can probably use a nuking cape as a standin (INT doesn't affect anything, but the MAB would), or even a savage cape as a standin until you make one.
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 Odin.Taytar
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By Odin.Taytar 2020-04-14 15:27:19  
I don't see many people talking about blurred knife +1 with Mors, is it that much worse than tauret?
 Asura.Nuance
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By Asura.Nuance 2020-04-14 16:04:06  
well tauret has MAB and magic dmg as well as MND

all of which make a better sanguine
 Asura.Nuance
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By Asura.Nuance 2020-04-14 16:05:23  
Asura.Blitzjr said: »
Asura.Nuance said: »
Cerberus.Hideka said: »
ItemSet 371320

Tryin to work out how i see these other rdms dropping beefy *** Seraph blades in the 30k range. i'm using my ghetto Croc because im still not ready to afford 150m lol.

But the augments are what youd expect - all MND/MAB/MAD/WSD where appliciable. Viti sword is at R18 atm, so its not too far off of the Croc's end damage on Elemental + iirc its like 70% atm or somthing right now? its pretty up there.

All i ever see, is at most 10k damage at 300 TP...

Any ideas on what i'm missing?

I'm thinking Kubi > Baetyl, Shiva > karyieh (need baylds to change), but what else?

Karieyh isn’t the go to ring for seraph from adoulin. You’ll want the Weatherspoon ring for that purpose. Less you actually play other jobs that benefit.

I use the below set minus the crown as caitsith has seen fit to not allow me to have it yet;
ItemSet 368525

Currently running with a mediocre Merlinic Hood. I highly dislike the whole oseem system so I personally avoid it like the plague.

I get mid 40k range in dynamis w3 usually.

The affinity granted by the sash, ring, and club can’t be stressed enough for seraphs.


What would the augments on this cape be?

MND+30 Macc20/mdmg20 WSD10
 Shiva.Arislan
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By Shiva.Arislan 2020-04-14 16:22:50  
Odin.Taytar said: »
I don't see many people talking about blurred knife +1 with Mors, is it that much worse than tauret?

Temper II is just too strong on RDM to trade better offhand stats for OA2.

Blurred is better on jobs w/ limited sources of MA.
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 Odin.Taytar
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By Odin.Taytar 2020-04-14 16:26:36  
Makes sense, thank you!
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By CodCart 2020-04-16 16:10:11  
So, I'm a pretty fresh 119, wearing mostly ambuscade gear with some +1s thrown in. A buddy helped me get the gil + abjurations for amalric hands or feet. I've got the gil to HQ one, but not both - which would be better to prioritize? I'll get the NQ version of the other, and will save up to HQ it eventually. I tend to enjoy the DD side of RDM, but realize that to start participating in endgame content I'll definitely be more on the support angle. Dunno if the fast cast + magic damage on the feet is better than the elemental skill + magic burst II on the hands. They seem mostly even, otherwise. Any advice? I have the gil for an HQ thanks to a very generous donation from said friend, so I won't be able to easily farm up for another HQ one anytime soon.
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By Asura.Schroe 2020-04-18 09:13:25  
HQ Kaykaus +1 hands first. Just use Jhakri for nuking until you get a solid enfeebling set.
 Asura.Shiraj
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By Asura.Shiraj 2020-04-18 14:46:17  
Hey so I'm looking to pull my RDM back out after rage quitting the job cos I suck and looking for a BiS TP set.
The TP set I'm curious about is capped haste and not using Enspells, so no Orpheus Sash involved.

Any help would be appreciated, ty.
 Fenrir.Aladeus
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By Fenrir.Aladeus 2020-04-18 15:15:33  
not..using...enspells...? WHAT KINDA RDM ARE YOU!


=D
 Asura.Shiraj
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By Asura.Shiraj 2020-04-18 15:23:47  
Fenrir.Aladeus said: »
not..using...enspells...? WHAT KINDA RDM ARE YOU!


=D

lol. Well some mobs just don't take magic damage well. Maju for example. I can solo him with ease, but my sets can 100% be improved and looking to maximise what I can do when/if I need to use Savage Blade/CDC as a main source of damage.
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By huttburt<3 2020-04-18 16:09:58  
I'm looking for my new bandwagon job. Thoughts?
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 Asura.Shiraj
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By Asura.Shiraj 2020-04-18 16:39:38  
huttburt<3 said: »
I'm looking for my new bandwagon job. Thoughts?

Monk would be for you. Easiest Bandwagon job.
 Shiva.Applesmash
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By Shiva.Applesmash 2020-04-18 17:59:37  
I heard BLU is pretty OP too
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By huttburt<3 2020-04-18 17:59:48  
Asura.Shiraj said: »
huttburt<3 said: »
I'm looking for my new bandwagon job. Thoughts?

Monk would be for you. Easiest Bandwagon job.
I'm just about finished gearing monk and a couple hundo jps from master. Looking for a new bandwagon.
 Bahamut.Neb
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By Bahamut.Neb 2020-04-18 18:11:04  
Asura.Shiraj said: »
Hey so I'm looking to pull my RDM back out after rage quitting the job cos I suck and looking for a BiS TP set.
The TP set I'm curious about is capped haste and not using Enspells, so no Orpheus Sash involved.

Any help would be appreciated, ty.

ItemSet 372421

cape 10DW
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