Whm/nin Offhand Question

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Whm/nin offhand question
 Lakshmi.Konvict
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By Lakshmi.Konvict 2016-10-07 09:47:09  
Assuming you have Yag/Emp club with Cursna +100 club would you get the effect of the club off handed or vice versa with Yagrush?
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 Asura.Zihi
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By Asura.Zihi 2017-02-16 10:53:47  
Good question!!! I have and never Wonder to try XD
 Leviathan.Comeatmebro
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By Leviathan.Comeatmebro 2017-02-23 08:22:09  
Also curious about this. I can confirm yagrush won't work offhand, but have any gamb afterglow owners taken the time to check it?
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 Odin.Warusha
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By Odin.Warusha 2017-02-23 08:35:26  
Josiahkf said: »
Looks like Odin.Warusha is the only one registered and still actively posting, I sent him a PM linking to this thread

Heya Warusha~
probably don't remember me

"Bahamut.Pikohan2017-02-23 01:18:39
As for dual wielding clubs, I've been running WHM/NIN for a year or so now and it's been great having dual-wield gada (before ammurapi shield) dual wielding yagrush(must be main'd)/gambanteinn works (AFAIK from success rate I've had but needs proper testing). My first SL master trial attempt was with Yagrush /RDM but the 2 runs after were with Yag/Gamb combo /NIN."

Straight from my source's mouth.

Also I just finished this weapon yesterday so I don't know personally.

Also Also I totally remember you. I haven't done ballista in literal years. Different culture over here on Odin.
 Odin.Warusha
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By Odin.Warusha 2017-02-23 08:38:36  
Leviathan.Comeatmebro said: »
Also curious about this. I can confirm yagrush won't work offhand, but have any gamb afterglow owners taken the time to check it?

Any tips on how to test this? I'd love to know. Also I want to determine removal rate because Piko indicated I should only anticipate an 82% removal rate assuming 26% removal rate base(500 skill- we know it scales past that threshold).
 Ragnarok.Martel
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By Ragnarok.Martel 2017-02-23 09:09:29  
Ideal testing conditions would probably involve a lot of help.

The most controlled test environment is testing in ballista/Brenner with a BLU casting mortal Ray on someone, then the WHM Cursna'ing. The target can be the WHM, but that prevents you from testing the full combination of Cursna+ and Cursna received.

The reasons for lots of help is that Mortal ray has a huge MP cost and recast. 267 MP cost and 150 second recasts. For speedy testing you'd want additional haste and refresh over what blu can self buff, and probably multiple BLUs rotating casts.

The advantages here are that you don't have to deal with an actual combat situation with a mob, so there's no survival requirements, or additional status effects messing things up. That and you can intentionally trigger doom as fast as recast and MP allow. No waiting on the mob to get TP and then actually use doom.

Cons being you're limited by ballista/brenner match timers and need at least one other person to test at all. Preferably more for efficient sample gathering.

There are a couple NMs I can think of that have triggered doom auras, which would be faster for mob based testing then waiting for a doom TP move every time. I'll look them up and make another post on those.
 Leviathan.Comeatmebro
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By Leviathan.Comeatmebro 2017-02-23 09:43:47  
Khun is a good one. Uses doom aura as soon as it pops, so you can have a DD or tank friend pop it without engaging.

Keep them alive and count the cursna casts, 50 casts with gambanteinn offhand and 50 with gambanteinn mainhand and otherwise identical gear(so mainhand something with no relevant stats) should be more than sufficient to identify whether it works offhand. Note that the aura only reapplies every 3 seconds, so if you can recast faster than that add a little bit of delay so you don't cast before doom is back on.

You can test for exact rate/formula this way too, but it's going to be hours and hours of testing. Would say a decent methodology would be:

200 casts at 0 healing skill(probably not able to do this yourself, would need someone to sub whm who had never previously skilled it)

200 casts at 500 healing skill

200 casts at max attainable healing skill

and from there, the results can be used to draw a loose formula and further tests can be made to get a more precise number and possibly identify tiers

of course, nobody expects one person to sit through all of that testing.. the gambanteinn one would only take a half hour or so and be pretty useful info for people considering making it
 Ragnarok.Martel
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By Ragnarok.Martel 2017-02-23 09:55:42  
Doom aura mobs that I can think of...

Xibalba - Abbysea Grauberg. The weakest of the 3 I have in mind, made easier by abyssea buffs.

Gains a doom aura with 30 second duration after using Bloodsaber. Casts various enfeebling -gas. Annoying. And finally, can cast death. That last one is the possible deal breaker.

Tangaroa - Voidwatch NM on Zilart path in Kuftal tunnel.

Gains a Doom aura while in it's shell. But also has poison/plague in the same aura. At lower HP%s, the poison can reach 200 hp/tick.

To make things worse, it has 3 respawning adds.

Aberrant Uragnite - Delve NM in Foret.

Probably the best option for mob based testing. Gains a 10 count doom Aura while in it's shell. still a bit annoying with venom shell, and high damage painful whip.

Could Trust tank these pretty easily, but the adds on Tangaroa could be an issue for a trust tank. I think your Trust would probably kill Xibalba.

If at all possibly, I'd avoid dealing with mobs, and test in ballista/brenner.
 Ragnarok.Martel
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By Ragnarok.Martel 2017-02-23 10:18:02  
How did I forget Khun? I did that fight recently...

I'd love to see testing on 500+ skill to removal rate. can't accurately calculate removal rate right now without knowing the potency of skill+.
 Fenrir.Snaps
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By Fenrir.Snaps 2017-02-23 10:54:15  
I was under the impression that we already knew how Cursna works.

Base Rate * (100 + Cursna success rate)/100

At least that's what the dev post about it indicated. As far as Yagrush vs Gambanteinn, I wrote a simulation a while ago to analyze the performance in group settings. Assuming otherwise BiS Curnsa set (not too hard to come by), the mean number of Cursna casts was nearly the same when you have 2 people. So unless you're doing single target Cursna or dual wielding, Yagrush is on par/better. I suppose you could write some gearswap rules to keep track of how many people have Cursna and use them both (single target when appropriate) though.
 Leviathan.Comeatmebro
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By Leviathan.Comeatmebro 2017-02-23 10:57:47  
We're pretty confident on that, but the questions in this thread are:

1. How does base success rate scale with enhancinghealing skill?

and

2. Does gambanteinn's cursna+100 work when offhanded?

as a side note, since divine caress blocks doom when successfully removed, i'd say blowing accession on gambanteinn is notably better than having yagrush
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 Ragnarok.Martel
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By Ragnarok.Martel 2017-02-23 11:12:04  
Leviathan.Comeatmebro said: »
1. How does base success rate scale with enhancing skill?
Healing skill


Leviathan.Comeatmebro said: »
as a side note, since divine caress blocks doom when successfully removed, i'd say blowing accession on gambanteinn is notably better than having yagrush
Oh, good point.
 Odin.Warusha
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By Odin.Warusha 2017-02-23 16:10:00  
Leviathan.Comeatmebro said: »
friend
Where can I acquire one of these?
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MSPaint Winner
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By Skjalfeirdotter 2017-02-23 16:37:00  
Odin.Warusha said: »
Leviathan.Comeatmebro said: »
friend
Where can I acquire one of these?

Skjalf is your friend. :3
 Odin.Warusha
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By Odin.Warusha 2017-02-23 21:16:23  
Skjalfeirdotter said: »
Odin.Warusha said: »
Leviathan.Comeatmebro said: »
friend
Where can I acquire one of these?

Skjalf is your friend. :3


My friend ditched me for Omen when I was 3 minutes late. Thanks friend.
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 Odin.Warusha
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By Odin.Warusha 2017-02-24 01:08:38  
572 Healing Magic Gambanteinn Off Hand
ItemSet 349681
89.2% removal rate
166 samples

572 Healing Magic
ItemSet 349682
59.2% removal rate
152 samples

I need job cards, goldsmithing ki for debilis, 4 skill on hands, losing 18 skill with yagrush in mainhand, 20 more skill for ebers cap +1 when not dual wielding and accession down.

I have begun to test 500 skill without potency gear, but wow, let me tell you about my boredom in doing THAT. I'm not sure I want to complete that trial. So far I have 61 samples and an abnormally high removal rate of 47.5%

I recognize that I didn't do the stuff mentioned in the thread, but you legit need a second whm to help cursna when you're using ***gear. Khun was definitely the way to go, although he does draw in constantly so you have to actually pay attention.
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 Bahamut.Pikohan
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By Bahamut.Pikohan 2017-02-24 03:51:01  
Leviathan.Comeatmebro said: »
We're pretty confident on that, but the questions in this thread are:

2. Does gambanteinn's cursna+100 work when offhanded?

as a side note, since divine caress blocks doom when successfully removed, i'd say blowing accession on gambanteinn is notably better than having yagrush

Gambanteinn's Cursna +100 works offhand.

Divine caress works with Yagrush mainhand/Gambanteinn offhand on PT members. (doesn't work in auras)

I've had 83.85% success rate on 192 samples with Yagrush/Gambanteinn combo testing just now. (538 Healing Skill)
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 Asura.Pergatory
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By Asura.Pergatory 2017-02-24 10:07:07  
A while back I'd theorized based on the values they gave us at 0 skill and 500 skill that it's 10% base removal with +1% per 30 skill. Let's do some napkin math and see how that lines up:

Warusha's Gamb test:
572 healing = +19% for 29% base
Cursna +205 = 88.45% success rate
Tested value = 89.2%

Warusha's Non-Gamb test:
572 healing = +19% for 29% base
Cursna +105 = 59.45% success rate
Tested value = 59.2%

Pikochan's test:
538 healing = +17% for 27% base
Cursna +210 presumably (he doesn't specify) = 83.7% success rate
Tested value = 83.85%

Seems pretty close!
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