119 III Weapons

Ok so I did some spread sheeting on warrior 269 skill REM weps. Firstly these were not calculated using ideal sets for each weapon, but are just a rough comparison of the weps on a range of targets:


ilvl Rag Brav conq Ukon / DPS
107 1394 1124 1466 1466
113 1375 1109 1472 1443
120 1373 1100 1435 1443
127 1036 960 1109 1088
135 814 930 898 886
avg dps 1198 1045 1276 1265
% dif 94 82 100 99

Max % dif (dps) Rag (vs)
Rag -
Brav 24.8
Ukon 5.0
Conq 7.0

So Conq is the best weapon (no surprise), but what I find interesting is how close ukon is.. the aftermath boost to triple makes a massive difference (100% increase in AM impact) - that was assuming proc rates are the same as before? ie 50% for AM3. Also this is during AM3, downtime on AM or lower tiers will make a big difference.

Bravura is 12% less dps than rag on average and 18% less than conq. Although the further accuracy falls under cap the more it claws ahead (ending up the best when enough under cap).

Rag is really close to conq now, ~6% difference on average.In some situations its near 25% ahead of bravura and within a few % of conq.

All this Crit % and crit dmg % available these days, paired with the STP falling from the sky makes me lean towards Uko's.

That and UF is a better ws than KJ.

I think Uko will pull ahead in mid-tier content where you can stack up on triple atk gear. and Conq will pull ahead on the top tier content where extensive accuracy in gear slots are needed, and conq's twice/thrice makes a huge difference.

That pretty much negates the entire comparison.

Due to the delay and accuracy differences each use's a different TP set. Rag has 42 more accuracy then either Conq or Ukkon which translates into 21% higher hit rate. Not to mention that Upheaval and Ukko's both suck right now, Reso is only functional because Argosy +1 exists to pump it up. That is why you are seeing Ukkon pulling so close to Conq, GAXE WS's are so crappy that melee damage makes up a larger portion of damage. Rag's 431 delay requires a bit more Store TP while Conq's AM3 is devalued during TP phase by WAR's ridiculous DA. I have 58% double attack during TP without even trying.

In actual usage scenarios what you get is Conq being really good at doing a 4~5 step double light skillchain and Rag being good at spamming high damage resolution's. Rag can technically do a 4 step light but it's not really worth it. The only self SC that is useful is the basic Scourge -> Resolution during AM activation.


Ukko's is a ***WS right now and nothing you do can make it better. It's severely limited in damage potential by it's two hit 2.0 + 1.0 fTP values. Upheaval on the other hand is four hits with the first getting a fTP boost and having 4.625 fTP at 1000TP(+moonshade). It's only downside is being 85% VIT which prevents using Argosy +1. Kings Justice is 50% STR but only 3.5 fTP at 1000TP(+moonshade), Conq makes it do a bit more damage and at 3000TP it's pretty strong at 7.0 (pseudo 9.1 with Conq). So you only use KJ at 3000TP to activate AM3 and then proceed to do a multistep 5 part double light.

King's Justice -> Steel Cyclone -> Upheaval -> Ukko's -> Ukko's

Conq's AM3 is nice but the real power is in it's enhancement to Berserk.

In comparison Resolution is five hits, 85% STR and most importantly copies the fTP onto each hit including double attack procs. That last part is important because WAR has so much natural DA at those procs will happen. Base fTP is 1.11 per hit for 5.55 naturally before DA and 6.66 with one. Pure STR so a full set of Argosy +1 does silly things with it's only weakness being the 15% attack penalty. Thankfully Warrior has the second highest attack in the game and the STR and higher fTP more then compensate for the attack penalty. Unfortunately Great Sword has some very bad SC properties on WAR so multi-steping big SC's isn't particularly strong.

Its good to have posts like these. Thank you. I've always looked at the front end of a situation and make my judgments based on that. The mathy/back end contributions though, never been able to do that or invested the time in it, so when someone like you posts in 2016 its a breath of fresh air providing they can continue to share.

Can you let me know how Apoc does vs lib and Excal does vs Burt and Murg?

It doesn't exactly negate the comparison. But I know what you mean..

Especially at lower ilvl when you're att/acc capped, it's giving a base quality of the weapons and the impact of their respective AM. In reality you will of course gear around the different qualities of the weapons, but as the spreadsheets factor in decimals for ws frequency, delay is accounted for and store tp/multistrikes etc will add similar dps in each case (apart from conq ms gear somewhat). When you start getting into specifics like accuracy/evasion/attack/crit def bonus you would in actual play the comparison changes. When have Spread sheet comparisons ever been that indicitive of actual play though? In reality you will always find yourself in many different situations (different mobs, different buffs, dispel, buffs dropping off, debuffs) so checking the numbers is just a way to look at the weapons potential.

I recently came back to FFXI and suddenly became interested in building a Bravura and upgrading it to 119 III (I have all the plutons ready but not enough currency to bring it to final stage) after I attained lvl 99 WAR since I like Great Axe (I did resolution spam with Fulgurante in Abyssea with DRK and it got pretty stale) and the Damage reduction seem interesting. But after reading this thread I got pretty disappointed and am having my doubts and might just make a Ragnarok instead. My question is, excluding skillchaining, does Bravura actually allow you to do things that you cant do with a Ragnarok? Bravura obviously allows one different gear choices considering the damage reduction but in the end, does it make any difference?

Probably doesnt matter anyway what weapon I choose, from what I have gathered melees arent used for anything really in endgame.
I am making the weapon for myself rly. Would cleaving with a Bravura be more efficient JP farming than single target resolution (crappy reason to choose relic I know, but I have only 100 JPs so far)?

Basically I am trying to justify building a Bravura (it is what made me farm dynamis in the first place) and using up all my plutons on it lol.

I cannot see the investment worth it if you are at the building stage and would say to just go Rag. Upheaval is very underwhelming and while Metatron might be amusing with all the STR gear available these days, it's still a one hit WS that is better used for its utility than its damage dealing potential. (I have not looked at the updated Aftermath for Bravura, but I doubt it does enough to pull it ahead.) the sad fact is that Warrior is in a pretty bad place and has been for a while. we were making Fencer builds for a while to use with either Savage Blade or Cloudsplitter because GA is suffering that badly.

To be honest I want it foremostly for the purpose of attempting soloing/tanking content,for example higher difficulties of high-tier battlefields. But perhaps it is just a waste of time and gil.

I'm surprised how infrequently Aeonics are being mentioned in this thread. While most of them are probably not going to be the best, I think it's worth knowing how they compare with the other weapons.

Pretty hard to say. I think we can all agree that Lionhart would be absolutely insane for WAR and DRK, but SE is a bunch of *** and refuses to give us the best GS in the game.

Chango is interesting, I'm just not sure it's interesting enough to beat the likes of Conqueror given that gaxe already has great skillchain potential. Conqueror does it faster, Chango does it harder and finishes with radiance instead of double light.

Lionheart on WAR on the other hand would've been absolutely hilarious in any situation where you could spam Resolution, buuuuuuut RUN onry.

Bravura is a niche weapon: a) -20DT/regen
b) highest accuracy weapon for WAR

With the update, that -20DT is much easier to maintain (3 minutes at 3000tp, which always means you have to use an inferior ws less frequently.

In today's games, what that aftermath helps you do is stay up, swinging and SCing for mages to mb. There's an argument for MP conservation, but I don't find mages have too many problems these days. And solo.. well you'll take less damage killing mobs faster (unless cleaving as you mention).

The argument is you could just use a higher damage potential weapon with a -DT set. But keeping accuracy/store tp up (which will keep you SCing; why else are you using GA?) whilst capping -DT is where bravura shines.

Now the highest accuracy weapon for WAR is a very nice and content applicable tag to have.. bolstered further by the -40 evasion additional effect. This will make bravura your weapon of choice when that accuracy is needed, which isn't that uncommon in today's game.

It's also worth noting, although it is the lowest damage potential of the REMA options for WAR, it is still greater in terms of DPS than any other non-REMA GA available.

Completely agree with you that reso spam can be dull (unless zerging something to oblivion, which is where it shines anyway but..) and adding utility also adds a fun factor (should be taken into account for any game right?)

So if you're looking for a reason to make a bravura there's a few. Worth noting that if they ever make metatron's def down effect land reliably it's DPS and usefulness will increase. The gap between brav and rag would also close if they buff GA ws, which is overdue in my opinion.

Melee? Yes
Can survive? yes
can land hits/has enough accuracy? yes
Can self sc? yes

The above represents all you need to qualify for end game as a dps in today's FFXI. Who cares if you're swinging a kraken club or a i119III mythic as long as you can SC and live, that's all that matters because God knows you're not there to be the primary damage dealer, just a BLM/RDM/SCH's SC ***.

This is incorrect in the extreme.

Use fury + frailty instead of Acumen Malaise and you can do ridiculous amounts of self SC damage with a multi-step. I do this all the time on WAR and BLU. Killed all the Zi'tah Escha T3's (CL135) using melee self SC along with all the T1 and T2's from the other zones. Rein T3 is a bit of a stretch, you can get the acc for it but the massive AoE's make it not a good idea.

Oh I know its possible to mix things up a bit with GEO and COR, but try convincing the community this. My comment was more of a rant about people being lazy and bandwagoning whatever everyone else is doing instead of God forbid, doing something else but just as, if not more effective.

It's about as effect as "convincing" the community to not use BST on everything, a useless endeavor. Get a solid core group of friends who respect you and are not afraid of trying different things out. What you'll soon realize is that the "common" strategies originated as some small groups prime strategy that got leaked out and bandwagoned, often losing the fine points or reasons why in the process.

Absolute crap lol a solid DD supported properly can deal enough damage to kill 9 mobs out of 10 people say require a sc/mb strategy.

Aside from Zerde in Reisenjima, I'm not sure anything REQUIRES a sc/mb setup. It's just that a whole lotta fights are much easier with one.

But my real reason for posting is to ask if anyone else has noticed Metatron Torment doing more damage after the update. I got on WAR for the first time since the update(Been on DRK when playing fun jobs) and pulled my regular *** 244 skill Bravura to do some CP tests on Apex Bats.

I recall this WS being ***. Tonight it wasn't. I found myself able to destroy these things as a solo DD with a 5 step skillchain using Metatron. It was frequently dealing over 10k damage, which is a lot more than I remember it doing. Admittedly, it's been a while since I messed with it. But comparatively, Resolutions were dealing about the same damage. Both were at 1k tp usually(was having fun starting SCs with GA and swapping to GS to close with Reso), so Reso would be lacking ftp from that.

Anyway, after playing with it tonight I'm going to go ahead and afterglow it to see how it does. I like the utility of Bravura anyway compared to other GAs. Anyone else have one notice Metatron doing better?

No idea if they ninja buffed it?? That would be awesome if they did.. Might just be the 2h ftp update being more noticeable on a 40% boosted ws?

How was the def down proc rate in that situation?

Did the en-evasion proc often also?

I have no idea on either count. I was accuracy capped the whole time anyway(Bravura acc so gud), and I was playing two other characters at the same time with everything in the chat logs turned off for them, so I wasn't really paying attention to either effect.

Also worth noting is that quad. attacks with a 4 hit build are hilarious. I was lucky enough to get some quad attack+3s on some Valorous and was able to maintain my 4hit with them on, and it's quite a lot of fun.

Did you ever afterglow Bravura? What do you think of it and Metatron damage?

Afterglowed Uko's is doing much better than I thought it would.
don't know who it was that was saying UF is garbage compared to Upheavel, but I have some nice screenshots (because no parse atm) on ***that is relevant today that would argue otherwise.

I mean, Ukkos by default as a crit WS would produce better screenshots than Upheaval.

it has consistently done better than upheavel on everything I've fought as WAR. It has consistently delivered upwards of 15k dmg on average without geo, rarely falling below 12.5k, and the OMG DA/TA 223-227 TP return Crit ws's have been upwards of 22k, without geo.
We're taking it out for a test drive today on Tier IIIs with a geo to see how epic it really is.

UF is crap, nothing you do will change that. No amount of buffs will change it either. 3.0 fTP is what cripples it vs Resolution or Upheaval. The AM doesn't effect the WS itself and 50 STR is +40 base DMG and won't raise your damage by 100%. Under the new pDiff system crits have less of an effect due to them being a static 1.0 increase. UF can get some pretty numbers if your lucky, roll double DA's with all four hits criting, but average is what counts and it's average is under that of other WS's.


You see what you want to see.

I really wasn't talking about which is better, just that those screenshots would obviously mean nothing.

I've only managed to finish 1119 III for Ragnarok and Ukonvasara, but I can tell you that Ukon is the vastly superior option. I spammed VD Leviathan for my boulders/plutons/beits, and while I can't math out exactly why or how, UF averaged more damage (9.3k with Qultada trust, berserk, and warcry) than either Upheaval (7.7k same buffs) or Resolution (7.2k same buffs).

I was reminded that Leviathan has massive DEF, which could skew results. Not a math wizard so all I rely on is experimentation and experience, and even though I expected Reso to be the superior WS, the reality of the matter is that Ukko's is top.

I finished Ukon first, then was very disappointed with Rag. While the huge crit rate is nice, it just can't compete with Occasionally Does Triple Damage in the white damage category. YMMV, but no matter what the math says, I go with what actually works in game.

Your gear or buffs sucked horribly. My average on VD Levi and Ifrit, neither has massive defense they just have -DT, was over 12K, over 16K with a real GEO. The math has been done, for pure WS spammage Rag resolution wins, for multi-step SCing GAXE is very attractive. Conq is about the only GAXE that seriously competes with Reso in WS spammage due to it's enhanced berserk and AM3 boosting the weaker GAXE WS's.

For everyone putting their fingers in their ears and screaming "Nahh I won't listen".

https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Ukko's_Fury

two hit, first hit 2.0, each additional hit 1.0 80% STR
20/35/55% crit rate at 1000/2000/3000 TP.

And ... that's it. No extra damage, no copying fTP, no relic / WS bonus effect, no raising fTP values via Tp Bonus, nothing. This WS was really nice in Abyssea with Crit atmas but has long since fell behind everything else. Ukon's only attribute is 50 STR which is +40 WSDMG. The ODT is really nice for melee damage but does absolutely nothing for Ukko's. Conq is the only Legendary GAXE that will enhance WS damage via AM3 procs.

Wouldn't his ukko just pulls ahead due to the lack of attack buffs?(He used NPC buff which is weaker than real cor)

Most of the runs I do are
BLU BLU WAR GEO GEO WHM

So not even a COR NPC. The GEO's are doing Fury + Fraility with the WHM doing Dia II to stack. Stacking Berserk with RCB's and either Warcry or Blood Rage depending on which one is up. The fight is over with in 29~33 seconds with me essentially "tanking" by switching into -DT whenever it readies Spinning Dive or Flaming Crush. I don't do this on purpose but Rag + Reso does so much damage it's nuts.