Reisenjima T4s |
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Reisenjima T4s
DirectX said: » Asura.Shiraj said: » which why wouldn't you want It's not a challenge playing the game without them, it's a nuisance. I cleared all content without gearswap at first and I felt like an absolute tool when I did change to gearswap and started using addons. It's so nice to be able to move freely and be a little lazy when knock back happens. There is no challenge about it People don't want a "challenge". That's a complete crock of ***. You post a video of MNK destroying Kin faster than other DDs and you get "woopdeedoo, so wahhht". A lot of players talk that "we want more of a challenge" ***, and then when it's time to clear aeonics, they are looking for all of the nirvana smns and idris geos so they can ezmode the *** outta the content. People just care about clearing stuff as fast as possible, don't even entertain that farce
Lakshmi.Buukki said: » A lot of players talk that "we want more of a challenge" ***, and then when it's time to clear aeonics, they are looking for all of the nirvana smns and idris geos so they can ezmode the *** outta the content.
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Lakshmi.Buukki said: » People don't want a "challenge". That's a complete crock of ***. You post a video of MNK destroying Kin faster than other DDs and you get "woopdeedoo, so wahhht". A lot of players talk that "we want more of a challenge" ***, and then when it's time to clear aeonics, they are looking for all of the nirvana smns and idris geos so they can ezmode the *** outta the content. People just care about clearing stuff as fast as possible, don't even entertain that farce SMN burning Aeonics is the only end-game challenge what do you mean, dude? ***'s almost impossible without 5 Nirvana SMN, Idris geo, Rostam cor. If you don't have them jobs you can't beat Aeonic NMs, especially not golden kist.
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Lakshmi.Buukki said: » People don't want a "challenge". That's a complete crock of ***. You post a video of MNK destroying Kin faster than other DDs and you get "woopdeedoo, so wahhht". A lot of players talk that "we want more of a challenge" ***, and then when it's time to clear aeonics, they are looking for all of the nirvana smns and idris geos so they can ezmode the *** outta the content. People just care about clearing stuff as fast as possible, don't even entertain that farce I agree with you completely, but a lot of the games' mechanics draw a very fine line between challenge and nuissance. A lot of this blurry/gray area lends itself to how poor the user interface is. For example, without gearswap, an Enemy unequips 2 random pieces of armor from your character. Without gearswap, you'd be mashing the same macro (which hopefully, has pre-action/middle/post-action equip-sets), to get your characters gear back to normal for that situation. Combine that random-effect button-mashing, with another poor method for validating if you hurried responses were successful....having to open the equip menu (assuming you're /lockstyle'ed). Also, did my gear change or is this server lag? (Same confusion about server lag, when I spam my macro 10-15 times and it doesn't really register properly). Certain addons/plugins exist to mitigate this pretty poor user experience, but it's an old game, so we take what we can get. But let's forget all that for a moment. We used to put up with some horrendous ***. Remember the one-hour walk to Valkurm Dunes only to realize you forgot to change your sub-job? or the Chocobo ride to Sky to farm LS pops, only to remember you forgot to buy Remedies before leaving town? This game historically has been pretty unforgiving, in many common-sense areas that affect how re-playable content within a game is. (Think of it a different way, you and your friend can play 50 matches of Street Fighter or MvsC2/3 in 2 hours, easily). Can the same be said for ANYTHING in FFXI without making you groan? I don't think removing elements of annoyance/nuisance make content easier. I personally wish SE would stop adding QoL mechanics to GEAR. I mean, regardless of Main Job or Gear, you should: Have the same adjustable movement speed Have the same adjustable knockback distance Negative Auras and random 99k attacks against are great, but not if we can't mitigate them, and usually we can't. The above, according to SE are a means for 'increasing difficulty' ...but in reality, they don't do much to alter the performance of the player or degraded the performance of a particular job. They're just annoying and limit one's desire to try again. Sometimes, playing FFXI is like playing a long game of Monopoly with your younger sibling, who might AT ANY MOMENT, say "*** this ***" and do a table-flip. You kinda can't resume a piece of content, when the possible outcomes are so heavy-handed and above all else, impossible to recover from. (In my opinion, HARD content is one that wiping is likely but recovery is still possible...And SE doesn't do that often, they give us content that hands us a WIPE, and often, we have to just ....home point and try again). There really isn't much that's an unavoidable wipe. There are wipes that can't be recovered, but they could have been prevented in the first place. What moves are you thinking of that are just 'handing you a wipe'?
Lakshmi.Buukki said: » People don't want a "challenge". You're probably right there. Most don't, they want their shinies that they'll parade around Mhaura in town sets and then go into old content completely overpowered and just go to sleep while their gear does the work for them. Doesn't mean all, and most of us who do use more addons and plugins than we can remember also want a challenge. One of the issues is there's a huge difference between challenge and gimmick. Knockback from its inception felt like a gimmick...maybe because we didn't have that mechanic in early FFXI days (I'm aware other games use a similar concept), maybe because we're lazy. Its been circumvented so long now its hard to tell the difference. I think SE has a problem in developing "challenging" mechanics any more. Gear creep makes a more standard mob just not that challenging. Putting in mechanics that we think of gimmicky we just find an addon to avoid it. So what's left? Get cute with things like AV back in the day, and we never figure it out and just abandon the content. I'm curious to see what will be done with Empy+3...will it just be content we can blast through and the only challenge is droprate and lockout timers? Or will they develop unique tactics and mechanics like say the Omen bosses- those were very enjoyable for a long time because of the uniqueness associated with their mechanics. Lakshmi.Buukki said: » ... You post a video of MNK destroying Kin faster than other DDs and you get "woopdeedoo, so wahhht". True. Long gone are the days of people posting 2 hour RDM/NIN solos where it was just cast Bio2/Poison2 and run around, or using terrain to *** with a mob's pathing, and most endgame players are aware of the power of overloading buffs on a single DD vs sending in wave after wave of under-haste'ed, under-buffed DDs that are just feeding TP to the target. Not to mention this annoying little thing called "adulthood" and most of us aren't scouring the interwebz for cool FFXI solos any more. You're not gonna get famous for a solo these days. Lakshmi.Buukki said: » A lot of players talk that "we want more of a challenge" ***, and then when it's time to clear aeonics, they are looking for all of the nirvana smns and idris geos so they can ezmode the *** outta the content. People just care about clearing stuff as fast as possible, don't even entertain that farce This is where I'm gonna disagree. There's a huge difference between groups that have lived and died by the SMN burn for their Aeonics from cycle one and using the tactic to get one member of your shell who missed an event night caught up or finished up. Its just smarter usage of resources- you needn't dedicate an entire event night and your entire LS's forces to get one person 3 HELM kills when a party can take care of that for the one member who had family plans on the scheduled night. Its even a huge difference when groups who have done several cycles in different methods and on that 11th Aeonic cycle they just wanna get it done and get back to more current aspects of the game. Or how about this aspect of SMN burns? Its a nice reward to your BRDs and WHMs who also happen to have SMN leveled and in every other event they don't get to come the "fun" jobs (DDs, CORs, etc), so why not give them a moment in the sun, and let them blast away at 4 year old content? I've been in groups that have cleared Aeonics every way possible- BLM bursting, Melee burns, Ranger burns, SMN burns. I've been on cycles where we've used all 4 of those methods in the same cycle depending on the target. There's TONS of us out there that like mixing it up and don't fall back on SMN burns because we can't do it other ways- we just use it to let our SMNs have a little fun and to speed up content that is now very old to us. What is the difference between a mechanic and a gimmick? All of these moves are gimmicky as hell, which is why people just find ways to circumvent it completely if they can. And you know when I refer to summoner burn, I'm not talking about the group clearing the fight for the fifteenth time or mercing to save time. Many of us have been in groups that have done it other ways, so the repeat fights can be chores.
But we are getting new fights coming out monthly and you cannot pay people to want to do it in any way where there might be some being degrees of win/loss. Just pet setup so I can lot and be done. Stop it. People are generally all about getting the damn shinies as quick and easy as possible using the method of least resistance. People literally gave up on ambuscade this month for that very reason, or try lowered their standards and just grinded diff. Zero page waits. You can't pay anybody to try to figure it out even if it takes 10 straight wipes. Unless you've got a dedicated group of friends who like that sorto challenge. People aren't interested in even bothering with aman trove fights. Nope. Shiny right now or *** this. DirectX said: » Leviathan.Comeatmebro said: » There really isn't much that's an unavoidable wipe. There are wipes that can't be recovered, but they could have been prevented in the first place. What moves are you thinking of that are just 'handing you a wipe'? No. Golden Kist is easy as hell... Literally no reason any group should die to it. Deal with his mechanic and no possible way to wipe. Very easily avoided. Everytime i see Nirvana SNM wipe to Kist trying to AC and fail i just laugh on them at this point, it's embarrassing.
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DirectX said: » Leviathan.Comeatmebro said: » There really isn't much that's an unavoidable wipe. There are wipes that can't be recovered, but they could have been prevented in the first place. What moves are you thinking of that are just 'handing you a wipe'? Is this the hill you wanna die on right now? Very telling Lakshmi.Buukki said: » People literally gave up on ambuscade this month for that very reason, or try lowered their standards and just grinded diff. Zero page waits. You can't pay anybody to try to figure it out even if it takes 10 straight wipes. Unless you've got a dedicated group of friends who like that sorto challenge. Literally I noticed this. This month is "hard" for people just because it's "Anti-meta". I followed the JP video using Su5 Monk, Su5 Rdm, Sch accesion enthunder and beat VD, although took 15 minutes due to "anti-meta"(not great to try spam for points, I know), it's still very easy. Just people too lazy to figure it out or want to try. Difference between a mechanic and a gimmick? A mechanic can be dealt with. It doesn't matter how, but you can see how a mechanic works, adjust methods/tactics to deal with it, and get your win. A gimmick is something that a target does that cannot be mitigated in any way, or if by dealing with it you expose your group and yourself to a possible wipe scenario.
Great example is Kei. Kei has a mechanic where respectable damage can only be dealt after a skillchain, making multi-step skillchains the way to go. It also has an insane regen that can be mitigated via casting of the proper spell to contradict what Kei is casting. Both of these mechanics, if not dealt with, prevent a win. But they are workable. Example of a gimmick? Bastok Dyna-D wave 2 boss with massive knockback and ultra-gravity. You could have everyone stand in front of the mob with backs to a wall, but this then exposes your group to a bevvy of evil attacks that really only Tanks are built to survive in repetition, or to handle at such a level where your mages can cure y'all up without taking hate from massing cure-bombs. Another gimmick move is how the NIN NM in any Dyna-D wave3 can sometimes, regardless of buffs/gear, just oneshot your tank for a max damage Mijin Gakure. Notice I didnt' say Mijin Gakure as a move- that has many ways of surviving said move in many/most situations. But when a mob can completely ignore all your defenses for max damage, what are you supposed to do but die? The gimmick is intended to throw a wrench in your battle and you're expected to recover from it. But that doesn't mean there aren't ways to deal with it or prevent it. It's just not as attractive as ignoring it through an addon
DirectX said: » They could make a separate server for the white knights to play their vanilla FFXI on. I equally support the idea of a separate olympics where performance enhancing drugs are allowed. How is that being annoying? You're the guy making the argument that fights could be harder than they have been creating lately, and yet you're complaining about an NM with a mechanic that can easily be dealt with? Like I said before, you gotta make up your mind.
Highlighted what nonsense? Normally I wouldn't entertain all of your incorrect comments. You've been wrong too many times today for me to keep count. But...
 Leviathan.Celebrindal said: » Difference between a mechanic and a gimmick? A mechanic can be dealt with. It doesn't matter how, but you can see how a mechanic works, adjust methods/tactics to deal with it, and get your win. A gimmick is something that a target does that cannot be mitigated in any way, or if by dealing with it you expose your group and yourself to a possible wipe scenario. By your defination all of your examples are mechanics. Leviathan.Celebrindal said: » Example of a gimmick? Bastok Dyna-D wave 2 boss with massive knockback and ultra-gravity. You could have everyone stand in front of the mob with backs to a wall, but this then exposes your group to a bevvy of evil attacks that really only Tanks are built to survive in repetition, or to handle at such a level where your mages can cure y'all up without taking hate from massing cure-bombs. We have done every single bastok wave 2 boss by using defebsive bubbles and stacking entire alliance against the wall corner then just fight there facing mob. WHM bar spell and pop asylum and just needs to spam curaga IV and esuna(after asylum wears) like mad. Need DT- gears in mid cast set to avoid 1 shot. It IS the most optimal strategy that Ive seen for that NM, after 1-2 min its dead. Sometimes I see groups put mages away from the NM rather than stacking them frontline, then mages will get hit, unprotected by defensive bubbles because they are out of range and took tons of dmg. Then the mage will be knocked back, unable to cure for 3 sec, then they will cast curaga on DDs, got locked out for another 3 sec. Then finally cast cure on themselves, 7+ sec AFTER heavy aoe move fires off. Needless to say very frenquently mages die if next aoe move comes within 7 secs. Everytime when I see this I had to ask why.....if they just have whm stack it takes 1 sec casting time to cure entire pt full. Leviathan.Celebrindal said: » Another gimmick move is how the NIN NM in any Dyna-D wave3 can sometimes, regardless of buffs/gear, just oneshot your tank for a max damage Mijin Gakure. Notice I didnt' say Mijin Gakure as a move- that has many ways of surviving said move in many/most situations. But when a mob can completely ignore all your defenses for max damage, what are you supposed to do but die? I havent done cureskin math but once Ejiin said a very strong full cure can have 10k stoneskin or something? or was 4k SS max amount? In that case just full cure tank before nin mob engage and zerg it down before they wear. Maybe tank can swap to max HP set for extra saftety. My point is that there are countless ways to deal with mechanics. Afania said: » Leviathan.Celebrindal said: » Another gimmick move is how the NIN NM in any Dyna-D wave3 can sometimes, regardless of buffs/gear, just oneshot your tank for a max damage Mijin Gakure. Notice I didnt' say Mijin Gakure as a move- that has many ways of surviving said move in many/most situations. But when a mob can completely ignore all your defenses for max damage, what are you supposed to do but die? I havent done cureskin math but once Ejiin said a very strong full cure can have 10k stoneskin or something? or was 4k SS max amount? In that case just full cure tank before nin mob engage and zerg it down before they wear. Maybe tank can swap to max HP set for extra saftety. I haven't found this that often though as a RUN tank. Mijin is normally resisted fully, if not by half almost all of the time. I've never been 1 shotted by Mijin on Wave 3 in a Magic Evasion based set. Even if I wanna play it safe I can pop One for All and that is a barrier of over 650 HP or so, so it really isn't an issue for tanks. For non-tanks I'd imagine M.Eva set and Indi attunement/vex would work fine. DirectX said: » Try again Shiraj. 10/12 are laughable to kill as a DD with 5 trusts or 2 people with 4. Cactuar requires a very good DD and/or very good buffs if you are solo/duo (or luck, timing on ??? is not consistent) and Kist is another level of annoying. Solo SCH has to zombie to kill it generally and that takes a lot of skill and gear to pull off compared to the other 10, so, yeah. In context of the actual question - it is out of place as a T1. Noone said it is hard, either. Cactuar is very easy and simple. I solo it consistently on RUN with trusts. If you can't kill it on an actual DD job before it does ??? needles you need to look at what can you improve. My advice is skillchain damage, it chunks its HP off. I've witnessed many jobs kill Golden Kist by themselves. Rdm can kill it without any support/trusts. DRK can kill it, SAM can, the list goes on(with trusts, not even an actual party). If you can deal with Kist's mechanic, it is very simple. Only bad SCHs have to zombie kill Kist, or if they get unlucky with Helix resist which of course does happen. Soloing NMs usually do require more gear than doing it in a party, that's common sense. It's still not bad, if anything Sang Buaya is more annoying than Kist for melee jobs. That stun is annoying as hell, worse than Kist's. if you have to zombie kill on sch then they dont know what a magic eva set is
I can claim Kist isn't out of place because I know how to deal with the aura. It's not annoying. It's perfectly fine. If anything is out of place it's Onychophora. Meant to be a T4, but should be a T1-2...
Also no on RDM, DRK, SAM, and other jobs. My RDM sucks ***, easily manages Kist, Blu kills it very easy, as long as you have an Meva set and know how to break the aura, Kist is laughable nothing wrong with it at all. |
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