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Reisenjima T4s
 Asura.Sechs
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 10134
By Asura.Sechs 2017-04-23 08:23:21
Asura.Ladyofhonor said: »T4's, barring SMN's, are still the hardest content in the game right now. Well yes but:
1) They're nowhere as hard as they used to be and they already received multiple direct and indirect nerfs (even taking SMN out of the picture)
2) They're still the hardest content because... nothing else got added?
I don't think, in the post Adoulin era of FFXI, many content stayed "hardest in the game" for almost 2 years, and that didn't happen because new content was added more or less regularly, and so nobody was complaining that the "previously hardest content" was getting nerfed and/or becoming more accessible to other people.
I'm pretty confident 90% of the people who are currently whining right now wouldn't be doing that either if SE added more "harder" stuff.
That was kinda my point. What's really bad here it's not really that T4s are getting easier thanks to the SMN strategy (who cares? It's almost 2 years old content) or that T4s are easier (they got nerfed multiple times!) but more the fact that there's nothing else to be doing for hardcore gamers.
Omen is cool and everything but it's an incredibly slow gated grind and it's not really the same thing.
Asura.Sechs
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 10134
By Asura.Sechs 2017-04-23 08:28:06
I still argue that content that has balancing by drastic HP scaling is terrible ***and pushes situations like this. If mobs had static HP and more forms of hard stops in fights, instead of straight zergfest nonsense. This would be a nonissue. I kinda agree, but as I used to say in the old days: what is really bad to zerg strats to me is when you start applying them for EVERYTHING. When you have multiple relevant fights in the current end-game scene and only a few are zergable, I really don't mind zerg at all.
The issue comes when everything becomes a zerg, and at that point ***gets boring.
[+]
 Asura.Frod
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1211
By Asura.Frod 2017-04-23 08:30:37
Omen is cool and everything but it's an incredibly slow gated grind and it's not really the same thing.
I'm done omen, what's your excuse?
I still say Glassy thinker is my favorite of the three to AF/AC spam.
The Omen bosses are great, Varied tactics for each, several have hard stops to prevent a zerg takedown, and they are generally all interesting. My only regret there is that none of them have charm/charmga.
Asura.Sechs
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 10134
By Asura.Sechs 2017-04-23 08:35:59
I'm done omen, what's your excuse? Wut? D:
Not getting what you meant here.
I like Omen eh! A lot, but it's clearly not challenging as T4s are (were?) and it's not content that was created with alliances in mind but PTs.
I like it a lot, bu it's not "the same thing" as I said before.
Also it's kinda getting old quick. I don't see myself doing daily Omen runs for 3 more years to cap all the items I want for all my jobs at the current cards rate.
Event is old enough to allow for better exchange rate and better drop rate.
I'm fine with the 20hr lockdown, but cards/run ratio is off for an event as old as Omen now is (it was fine at start I guess)
Asura.Frod
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1211
By Asura.Frod 2017-04-23 08:44:47
It was sarcasm. I've got all my major drops (sans pet body) and 5/5d the +3 set.
My big complaint with omen is that nothing really warrants scales dropping that *** much. let us turn them into extra ou pops or something.
Ragnarok.Ejiin
サーバ: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 528
By Ragnarok.Ejiin 2017-04-23 08:44:52
FFXI right now is pretty great in that you can make melee, ranged, pet or mage method work on pretty much anything you want, but you still have to deal with NM mechanics, be very well geared with many different sets and be fairly involved in the fight. None of the methods have a very significant advantage over the other that doesn't involve a nearly equal disadvantage(obviously some exceptions).
But why bother with any of that. Any pragmatist would tell themselves 'why should I go above and beyond to make these other setups work when all I need to do is get a 6man conduit group together and faceroll the hardest NMs in the game.' No one can blame them; it's significantly cheaper, safer and faster to do it this way. My issue is not with the people doing it, I do not blame them at all, but I think it's incredibly hard to dispute that it's also unhealthy for the game overall going forward.
Asura.Frod
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1211
By Asura.Frod 2017-04-23 08:53:43
FFXI right now is pretty great in that you can make melee, ranged, pet or mage method work on pretty much anything you want, but you still have to deal with NM mechanics, be very well geared with many different sets and be fairly involved in the fight. None of the methods have a very significant advantage over the other that doesn't involve a nearly equal disadvantage(obviously some exceptions).
But why bother with any of that. Any pragmatist would tell themselves 'why should I go above and beyond to make these other setups work when all I need to do is get a 6man conduit group together and faceroll the hardest NMs in the game.' No one can blame them; it's significantly cheaper, safer and faster to do it this way. My issue is not with the people doing it, I do not blame them at all, but I think it's incredibly hard to dispute that it's also unhealthy for the game overall going forward.
The heavier problem is that you can't use those melee or mage or ranged setups without being penalized for it. It's even more of an uphill climb to use a balanced setup due to hp scaling.
By Sylph.Cherche 2017-04-23 09:22:29
Okay, since you missed my previous point; why would you use a more balanced setup when you can just do an 18 man conduit setup instead?
Asura.Frod
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1211
By Asura.Frod 2017-04-23 09:30:21
Okay, since you missed my previous point; why would you use a more balanced setup when you can just do an 18 man conduit setup instead?
Why use smn when i could throw 18 pups at it. or 18 drgs at it (and laugh?).
Because it'd be a hell of alot easier to make a balanced setup than to find a dozen smn?
The problem isn't simply because i can throw 3-6-12 or 18 smn at it. the problem is i'm actively being punished by HP scaling mechanics for not throwing a specific setup at it.
サーバ: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6052
By Leviathan.Comeatmebro 2017-04-23 09:32:53
You're not being actively punished, you're losing the benefits of what is very clearly an overpowered setup. No other setup is crying that HP scales.
Just the fact you see it that way shows how ridiculous the whole argument is.
[+]
Asura.Saevel
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9933
By Asura.Saevel 2017-04-23 09:37:27
I still argue that content that has balancing by drastic HP scaling is terrible ***and pushes situations like this. If mobs had static HP and more forms of hard stops in fights, instead of straight zergfest nonsense. This would be a nonissue.
Do it wouldn't. The issue is that a small group of SMN's can burn down all content in less then 60s. SE developers did not intend for content to be done that way, they have several mechanics that are of strategic importance to the fight. SMN's unzipping their pants, pissing on all the other players while saying "get on my level bro" isn't something that's healthy for the game in the long term.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/GameBreaker
Quote: An often controversial element of gameplay that unexpectedly trumps all others. Depending upon who you ask, it may or may not be considered cheating. A Game Breaker is a legitimate element of the game used in an unintended way. The Meta Game ends up revolving around who can get the Game Breaker (or use it on the other) first, resulting in Gameplay Derailment. Quote: Game Breakers are often controversial and subjective. Rarely do people actually agree on what is and is not game-breaking. Heated debates (or worse) over Game Breakers spread like wildfire on the Internet, or even around the house. It's obvious that the extremes of the Munchkin or the Scrub are wrong. However, there are techniques whose power is hard or even impossible to call. Quote: Note that this is not another word for 'overpowered'. To be a true game breaker, the ability or character in question must be so hideously unbalanced that it makes people just quit the game in disgust. It's so powerful that there are only two kinds of people: the ones that use it, and the ones that lose to it. That's why people quit in disgust: it destroys all semblance of choice, and quite possibly all semblance of fun. Your available tactics are now limited to one—the one that works. And what if you don't like that tactic? What if it's a gun in a game where you prefer swordplay? What if it involves Attack! Attack! Attack! when you're more of a defensive turtler? What if it requires you to play the Mighty Glacier but you're a Fragile Speedster player? Well, then, it sucks to be you. You can play the game the way you want to, and lose... or you can follow the crowd, and maybe win. Small wonder some players Take a Third Option and Rage Quit instead.
FFXI isn't a competitive RPG but there is competition when it comes to shouts and grouping. This has given rise to those charging a few hundred mil to sell people Aeonic clears and doing the entire thing in a few hours. SMN AC zerging is hideously OP, it breaks the game. No amount of "buff other jobs but let me keep my crown" is going to save SMN. I just hope the nerf isn't too terrible.
 Ragnarok.Inx
サーバ: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 371
By Ragnarok.Inx 2017-04-23 09:42:10
But why bother with any of that. Any pragmatist would tell themselves 'why should I go above and beyond to make these other setups work when all I need to do is get a 6man conduit group together and faceroll the hardest NMs in the game.'
Why are you fighting T4's if not for Aeonic credit? And lets face it, very few people are doing that for Khatvangas! So ironically SMN as a job gains very little from it.
 Ragnarok.Primex
サーバ: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 229
By Ragnarok.Primex 2017-04-23 09:58:11
Alternatively they could leave SMN as is and introduce new content that heavily resists certains types of damage - similar to the Souleater/KC or Critical Hit nerfs. I'd be ok with that. It doesn't address what I believe the core issue with pet jobs in particular; there is way less risk in using pets. But that's another topic all together and one that never ends well (Phuoc - looking at you bro, *** BST)
Asura.Frod
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1211
By Asura.Frod 2017-04-23 10:00:28
Leviathan.Comeatmebro said: »You're not being actively punished, you're losing the benefits of what is very clearly an overpowered setup. No other setup is crying that HP scales.
Just the fact you see it that way shows how ridiculous the whole argument is.
A group of 8 has a harder fight than a group of 6. A Group of 12 has a much harder fight than a group of 6. A group of 18 probably can't clear what a group of 6 can.
If i bring any setup that requires extra slots, I'm actively being punished for it.
サーバ: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6052
By Leviathan.Comeatmebro 2017-04-23 10:22:00
A group of 8 has a harder fight than a group of 6. A Group of 12 has a much harder fight than a group of 6. A group of 18 probably can't clear what a group of 6 can.
If i bring any setup that requires extra slots, I'm actively being punished for it.
Odd, I have 12 chars and I don't feel any more challenged bringing all of them than bringing less. I don't even have any trouble clearing most of them with my 12 and 6 leeches. For most setups, not needing to overlap buff jobs makes more people that much better. A single GEO can handle debuffs for the whole alliance. A single RDM or single BRD can handle threnody/frazzle for the whole alliance. More people means more options. It means more defensive capability. More buffs. The fight may have more hp, but the increase in number of players helps significantly more than the increase in HP hurts if you have competent players.
Guess it's just because I can handle the fight mechanics and am not relying on cheesing it with SMN burns.
サーバ: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1001
By Fenrir.Cherrywine 2017-04-23 10:41:01
Leviathan.Comeatmebro said: »Odd, I have 12 chars and I don't feel any more challenged bringing all of them than bringing less. I don't even have any trouble clearing most of them with my 12 and 6 leeches.
I'm glad you don't have any trouble using your set-up.
Neither do others using a different set-up.
Sounds like balance to me?
Also, what's cheesier:
1) Multi-boxing T4s so you don't need to coordinate with anyone else in a MMO?
2) Coordinating with other players but using the same job in a MMO?
[+]
サーバ: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6052
By Leviathan.Comeatmebro 2017-04-23 10:43:17
I also run a linkshell where I play less than 6 characters out of an 18-man alliance and have no trouble clearing them without SMN in that group either. Swing and a miss, champ.
It's quite a stretch to call SMN burning coordinating, as well. You put up 2 rolls, GEO puts up 2 buffs, RUN uses odyllic subterfuge so nothing will hurt you, and SMNs mash a single macro. To compare that to the fight flow with any other setup is laughable.
サーバ: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1001
By Fenrir.Cherrywine 2017-04-23 10:50:38
You play less than a third of your linkshell. Congrats?
I doubt SE intended us to beat things that way, should nerf that.
Actually, I doubt SE intended us to beat anything, should nerf all the things?
My point is, who cares? So it wasn't me that missed it. You did.
I don't really care if you play your whole crew. Your Master Trial video was super impressive. But it also doesn't effect me in any way. It also has no influence on how I play or enjoy this game.
Why are your panties so knotted up over how other people are playing? If you don't like it, play another way. With other people (or yourself, as the case may be). We share a sandbox, but we can do whatever we want in it. Please respect others and don't piss on their sand castles.
サーバ: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6052
By Leviathan.Comeatmebro 2017-04-23 10:52:32
Having a cheesy thought-free instant win devalues the content, shortens the length of the game, and generally reduces the fun factor. If you don't see that, that's not anyone's problem but your own. We can argue about it until the end of time, with or without reaching a consensus, but SE still has the final say on whether it'll be nerfed or not.
Hint: It will.
サーバ: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1001
By Fenrir.Cherrywine 2017-04-23 11:03:08
Maybe they will, maybe they won't. But they ruin everything they touch. That hurts the game more than validating your position would.
Besides, it isn't instant. It takes 60 seconds, I'm told. So many exaggerations.
People shouldn't have to code to do well at this game.
You win with superior automation.
Others shouldn't be excluded if they lack that. So they use other strategies. What is cheesy is subjective.
Are they excluding you from content? No, you say they aren't. Are you excluding them from content? Maybe. Are SMN burns stealing your buyers? Maybe, I don't know. I really don't know why you care soooooo much.
Going to kill a bunch of Aeonic mobs without SMNs. (I really am.) Peace out.
Ragnarok.Ejiin
サーバ: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 528
By Ragnarok.Ejiin 2017-04-23 11:22:03
FFXI is still very special among MMOs in that it allows and even encourages many different strategies to accomplish a wide variety of content. What conduit burn is currently doing is exactly the same as what happened with Kclub DRK, Blood Rage WAR during VW and MNK during Delve. Each of these methods became so above and beyond more safe/efficient/easy that it not only encouraged everyone to hop on the bandwagon, it also muzzled every other potential strategy from seeing the light of day because everyone was so familiar/dead set on sticking to the current easiest meta that nothing else could thrive.
I have never remembered a time in the history of FFXI that so many different strategies have existed in harmony to accomplish the same goals. The only outlier right now is conduit burn, and if left unchecked, it will(and is now) leading to the phasing out of all the other strategies in the future.
Asura.Saevel
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9933
By Asura.Saevel 2017-04-23 11:27:33
Alternatively they could leave SMN as is and introduce new content that heavily resists certains types of damage - similar to the Souleater/KC or Critical Hit nerfs. I'd be ok with that. It doesn't address what I believe the core issue with pet jobs in particular; there is way less risk in using pets. But that's another topic all together and one that never ends well (Phuoc - looking at you bro, *** BST)
SMN BP damage is the same as any other melee type damage, it's not like BLM bursting which smacks into the resist wall with more then one nuker. SMN during AC is like having several WAR's with a no-weakness Auto-Reraise effect plus Auto-Buff Might Strikes effect doing 20~40K every 2~3 seconds while being in high defense gear.
Outside of AC zerg SMN is perfectly balanced, does great damage from a nice safe distance, can SC, has multiple useful buffs and debuffs, and ultimately is really nice to have in the proper setup. This is why I don't want to see them nerfed too hard, there should be a viable strategy centered around safe pet jobs, it just shouldn't be this "Everything dead in 60s or less" strategy that it's become. SE's become a lot better at targeting nerfs without obliterating jobs, that gives me hope the reduce will be to AC or to BP damage at low pet TP values.
Ragnarok.Inx
サーバ: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 371
By Ragnarok.Inx 2017-04-23 11:36:48
I have never remembered a time in the history of FFXI that so many different strategies have existed in harmony to accomplish the same goals. The only outlier right now is conduit burn, and if left unchecked, it will(and is now) leading to the phasing out of all the other strategies in the future.
I see no evidence of it being much of a trend at all though. Who exactly is doing this? Its funny, I've been challenged twice in this topic about employing a tactic based (presumably) on the single fact that I have a bunch of Aeonics and also happen to play SMN.
Seems to me that there are a lot of assumptions being made about how widespread zerging is.
Ragnarok.Ejiin
サーバ: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 528
By Ragnarok.Ejiin 2017-04-23 11:46:43
Have you really not noticed all the new Nirvana in the past couple months on both the JP and NA side on Ragnarok alone? I'm nearly positive it's catching on like wildfire.
When one setup can do 2M damage in 30 seconds while the other can't even break 1M, you're now in kclub territory. Do you really think SE designed AV to be zerged in 30seconds by 6 kclub DRKs? Nope! We're literally in the exact same situation right now.
Asura.Saevel
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9933
By Asura.Saevel 2017-04-23 11:51:31
Currently you have the following setups off the top of my head
BLM's burst off SCH SC's (contrary to opinion this still works great, the difference is your BLM's and support need actual good gear to do high level content).
Super Buffed Melees (same as above, need really good gear)
Ranger distance strat (used when getting close is dangerous like on Schah or Vini)
Buffed pets (non-SMN zerg), similar to both melee and ranger method.
Then the super situational ones like
SMN Mewing rotation + Storing TP + SA WS
DD RUN tanks
Melee multi-step SC
And now 30~60s SMN AC zerging.
All the top ones take anywhere from 6 to 35 minutes depending on fight, method used and often luck of NM TP moves. SMN method takes ... a minute or less and the target generally isn't alive long enough to do something dangerous. It's ok for a specific setup to be better in a specific fight then others, but it's not good for a specific setup to be better on ALL fights by a few orders of magnitude.
Asura.Saevel
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9933
By Asura.Saevel 2017-04-23 11:55:03
Have you really not noticed all the new Nirvana in the past couple months on both the JP and NA side on Ragnarok alone? I'm nearly positive it's catching on like wildfire.
When one setup can do 2M damage in 30 seconds while the other can't even break 1M, you're now in kclub territory. Do you really think SE designed AV to be zerged in 30seconds by 6 kclub DRKs? Nope! We're literally in the exact same situation right now.
Same on Asura, ***tons of SMN's running around and it's all the rage. Every shout for every fight, even Escha T1's, are asking for SMN's. Not shitting you, saw shouts for Serket and a few others wanting to do SMN burn on them, was a really O.o moment.
Ragnarok.Inx
サーバ: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 371
By Ragnarok.Inx 2017-04-23 12:06:38
Honestly, no. But we're EU time-zone so its not like there's a great deal of activity generally. :D
To be perfectly honest, we've got a couple of members making Nirvanas at the moment, but there's been no pressure to do that and there are plenty of other RME in progress for jobs that aren't so hyped, when alls said and done there's not much else to work on these days.
Asura.Saevel
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9933
By Asura.Saevel 2017-04-23 12:10:20
"There is nothing really wrong with AC SMN zergs"...
"We have a few members making Nirvana's...."
Yeah....
By Blazed1979 2017-04-23 12:26:54
Have you really not noticed all the new Nirvana in the past couple months on both the JP and NA side on Ragnarok alone? I'm nearly positive it's catching on like wildfire. I know 4 people, 5 including myself, that will be done within 2 weeks with i119 Nirvana.
And other than my main jobs,(PLD/WAR/MNK/DRK), everything else I bandwagon the ***out of.
If prime is making a mythic you better recognize its worth nerfing lol
[+]
 Ragnarok.Phuoc
サーバ: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 354
By Ragnarok.Phuoc 2017-04-23 12:30:10
Have you really not noticed all the new Nirvana in the past couple months on both the JP and NA side on Ragnarok alone? I'm nearly positive it's catching on like wildfire. I know 4 people, 5 including myself, that will be done within 2 weeks with i119 Nirvana.
And other than my main jobs,(PLD/WAR/MNK/DRK), everything else I bandwagon the ***out of.
If prime is making a mythic you better recognize its worth nerfing lol
lolMNK!!
[+]
Didn't see a thread up here and the info on BG is all over the place so I figured I'd make a thread to summarize the NM kill strats so far for people who want to try it for themselves. Everyone is welcome to add info themselves and I'll update the OP
Albumen
Ashweed x3 + Void Grass x3 + Vermihumus + Coalition Humus
Notes:
-4x Adds spawn with the main NM
-4 More spawn at 28:00, and 4 more spawn at 26:00 for a total of 12x adds (doesn't spawn any more, may respawn if you kill them, unconfirmed)
-Adds won't hesitate to SP shortly after spawn (about 10 seconds after.) Possibly 2hs are Chainspell, Mijin Gakure, Benediction (I haven't seen a 4th one? It might be the DNC one?)
-Main NM has access to standard Korrigan moves (including Fatal Scream, Petalback Spin etc.)
-Petalback Spin causes hate reset
-Stunnable by GEO/BLM with just focus or languor.
-Main NM can do Hundred Fists (often does Terror->Hundred Fists)
-Main NM has a 5-15 second long enpetrify effect that lands semi-frequently.
Strategies
Source: Ramzus/Lyramion
The only strategies recorded thusfar have been by Lyramion/myself. I don't know the exact details of his but the underlying concept is the same so I'll just add whatever I know, he's welcome to add in points himself after he wants.
Setup: BRD/BLM GEO/BLM PLD WHM | BLM/SCH BLM/SCH BLM/SCH BLM/SCH GEO/WHM COR/WHM | SCH SCH
Buffs:
Languor, Malaise, Focus, Haste, Entrust Acumen
Tactician's Roll, Wizard's Roll, Voidstorm (II)
Part 1: Adds Spawning
BRD pops JAs before spawning it (NT, Marcato, Elemental Seal). Horde Lullaby 2 on spawn immediately before they allahu akbar you. From here on, it's basically just afk until more adds spawn. The BRD needs to pop super revit as soon as possible, and then reuse JAs at ~28:30 remaining in the fight to resleep the 4 new adds that will spawn. After that, afk again until 26:00, once all 12 have spawned, someone can wake up all the adds to wipe your ally as fast as possible.
Part 2: NM Fight
Wait for everyone to recover and for BRDs JA timers to come back up, we rotated the SCH into the BLM pt for voidstorm 2 and then moved them back out.
BRD opened with NT/Marcato/Ele Seal and pulled with Horde Lullaby II (make sure your BRD memorizes how long their Lullaby lasts with NT+Marcato and NT+Marcato+CC) then we moved the Mandragora away from all the babies and started Gravitations alternating Death in pairs. The GEO in the tank PT popped BoG Languor for now.
As soon as possible, The COR should go into the PT with the BRD and RD'd + Super Revit RD'd again to get Marc/Ele Seal/NT back up, as well as got the GEO's BoG back for another Languor. Then at some point, The tank PT GEO did bolster malaise+languor and one of the SCHs tabula rasa'd and we just Death SC'd continuously. The BRD made sure to keep track of her Lullaby timer and told me when it had <30 sec remaining, then I ele seal Breakga'd then the BRD reapplied Lullaby with NT/CC/SV/Ele Seal for an additional 6.5min for a total of 12min. At some point the COR WC'd the BRD+1st bolster to see if they'd get it back (just in case for some reason it takes more than 12 min of fighting to kill). If bolster didn't recover then our GEOs swapped PTs and continued. The GEO/BLM can stun Petalback Spin 100% of the time with just Languor or just Focus, we only got hate reset 1 time because it did it mid-cast so it got through.
Voidsnapper x3 + Ashweed x3 + Mistmelt + Scroll of Tornado
Use THF, THF, THF, THF and THF. Every other DD is an absolute waste of time. Rudra's does 20k+ easily with either SA or TA and way shorter timers.
Buffs: Chaos, Miser, Tactician, Samurai, Frailty, Fury, Wilt, DEX/Barrier
Setup: PLD/BLU WHM, SMN, GEO (WHM was dualboxed by PLD so no /smn)
GEO THF/SAM THF/SAM THF/SAM COR/SMN /SMN
I dualbox'd GEO and did wilt/frailty in the tank pt, and DEX/Fury in the melee pt. The bubbles never wore for the most part (i did switch frailties between pt a few times and changed DEX to Barrier in tank pt) but you should never have an issue with it wearing off.
We also had all 6 members of the THF pt to get both lucid wings1/2 and we timed using them around when all THFs offloaded tp, in reality I should have saved them for when I did bolster but that's just for something to consider in the future.
We had 2 COR/SMN and a SMN rotating lullaby with SMN->COR1->SMN->COR2->SMN etc as soon as timers were up after the initial spacing out of lullabies to get a good cycle going. We opted from using BSTs to kill adds and just mewing lullabied all of them, not a single TP move went off the entire 23min fight.
I should mention that all THF were basically geared from their other jobs without actually dedicated gear (they all geared it from their BLUs/NINs etc) and they all had 0 JP. So if we were to use 3x Aeonic THF with 2100 JP we could probably get the fight down to sub 15 minutes no problem.
Void Crystal x3 + Void Grass x3 + Titanite x10 + Worm Mulch
Notes:
-Absorbs damage during TP moves
-Does relatively little damage, as do adds.
-Luopans soak Gorge/Disgorge damage making it a non-issue.
-Has unique TP move called Psychosis Gorge(sp?) that is an unerasable/sacrificable impact type stat reduction.
-Absorbs magic damage after casting Fire type spells below 50%, switches to absorb Physical Damage when it starts casting Earth spells
-Spawns adds after first SC, will retaliate with Doomvoid if you repeat the same SC, need to cycle some elements (not sure total amount)
-Increasing SC level causes more adds to spawn, can cycle t1 SCs.
-Main NM and babies can all Dustvoid to fully strip tank equipment, need some sort of method of immediately getting it back on so you don't die (our PLD make an equipset and macro'd it and mashed it when it did dustvoid.)
Strategy:
Source: Lyramion, Ramzus
PT1: PLD WHM SCH GEO
PT2: SCH BLM BLM BLM GEO COR
Buffs: Wizard's Roll, Tactician's Roll, Languor, Malaise, Focus, Acumen
I followed Lyra's suggestion of doing Wind->Ice->Fire->Dark->Thunder-> but I'm not sure how much it matters? If possible, Wind->Ice->Dark would probably work the best as those produced the highest damage nukes. I had BLMs self storm on every single SC so I wouldn't have to deal with it. On the wind SC I had the other SCH SC, no one except me MB'd so I could get some super powered Helix off. Without Bolster/Temp I was landing 13k Helix, with Bolster+Soldier the highest I saw was 30k.
There is very relatively little damage dealt by the NM this entire fight, GEOs should theoretically be able to full time BoG bubbles until they wear off naturally, unless they have enough regen (not sure if it's even possible to fully negate?)
During the more important SCs (Wind/Dark) we'd spam dia on the NM to force it to use a TP move before going, just to guarantee not healing it since 3x Death was doing >200k damage total. The TP feed is incredibly slow on this NM so this is a guaranteed method of being able to avoid TP dmg absorption 100% of the time if you SC immediately after it goes.
However, below 50% when it starts absorbing damage based on whether it's casting fire/earth, it starts to do multiple TP moves in a row instead of just one, so do be careful of that. We opt'd out of using silence after the first 3 landed, since it appeared to use spells almost guaranteed after silence wore which disrupted the flow of the battle. I'm not 100% certain, but I think it casts spells every 30 seconds and whether it decides to use Fire or Earth is random? It does use the same element spell multiple times in a row, though. I didn't observe enough to see whether it occurs in phases or not.
Voidsnapper x3 + Gravewood Log x3 + Leisure Table + Trump Card Case
The hardest fight in the game. Tumult Curator might be close, but he doesn't really give anything special. Anyone who wants an aeonic weapon eventually has to face this guy, who is on another level from all of the other NMs required. Even the best geared and most coordinated groups WILL lose to this guy, multiple times, before winning once.
Everything about this is a nightmare. Schah spawns a grand total of 14 adds; 7 Bhata (pawn), 2 Ashva (knight), 2 Gaja (bishop), 2 Ratha (rook), and 1 Mantri (queen). If any Bhata lives for too long (2-3 mins), it "promotes" into another Mantri. Ashva can use Banneret Charge (sets HP to 1) from 100%, which is basically an instant loss if it hits the PLD. Gaja can use Besieger's Bane (20' Terror+Zombie+Bio) from 100%, which is, again, instant loss if it hits the PLD and WHM. Every single caturae possesses knockback TP moves, and they can go into the trees and knock the PLD out of the corner. Hate is nigh impossible to hold; they WILL eventually split off from the PLD and attack others.
There are some good sides, and some key points. Bhata has less health than the other adds, and will almost always die in one SC+MB volley. Ratha does nothing special, so it can be left alone until the two Ashva/Gaja are dealt with. Mantri has FAR more health and defenses than the other adds (letting a second Mantri spawn is basically game over), but she can't use Enthrall (charmga) until 50%. Finally, don't even think of keeping the adds alive; Schah himself takes virtually no damage until they're all dead.
With all adds dead, it becomes a race against the clock. Only Death does any reasonable damage against Schah, so as many of those need to fire off as possible (hence BLM/SCH). Be careful; we have seen Schah use Besieger's Bane, Royal Decree, and Enthrall, as well as all the other caturae TP moves. We haven't seen him use Banneret Charge, but that just might be extremely rare. This is far easier to survive than with adds up, but don't let your guard down. Slack off on damage at any point, and you very well might time out.
The Corsair was dualboxed (by me). Every other job you simply cannot dualbox, too much is required. Setup was PLD/BLU WHM SCH in tank pt, then BLM/SCH BLM/SCH SCH GEO GEO COR. 1 Idris, no mage has any Amalric+1 gear. We did get lucky on Wild Card reset this time, but we have beaten him without it.
Before you start worrying about getting clears for an aeonic weapon, ask yourself if you're ever going to be able to beat this guy...because to get one, you're going to have to. Using a brew won't count either. Up for the challenge?
Void Crystal x3 + Voidsnapper x3 + Siren's Hair + Scroll of Maiden's Virelai
Notes:
-Uses SPs in random order at 79, 59, 39, 29, 19 and 9%. At 9% it will keep using SPs over and over.
-Each SP comes with a mega range aura.
-Soul voice: 1 minute silence aura and it gains access to virelai and a charm TP move called Entice. Vex/attunement will block Entice 99% of the time, but only charm buffer can block virelai reliably. Important to note that charm buffer can be dispelled easily in this fight. We had PLD use Sent. or invincible when this aura was up, but tank party will still have to rely on healing temps if HP goes too low.
-Manafont: 1 minute MDB down aura. Laughably easy to deal with if you have vex/attunement and Aegis on PLD. This is a good period to do as much damage as you possibly can.
-Invincible: 30 second 200-300/tic dia aura. Manawall can block this damage, which leaves the rest of the mage party to heal themselves. As long as no one panics and uses cures/temps, it's not too bad to deal with.
-Heavily favors using Clarsach when someone pulls hate at a distance, usually resulting in the entire backline getting 1shot.
-It's very important to pop this at a spot where the mage party can abuse terrain due to Clarsach's range. There are a few spots that work, but we settled on the spot near warp #2.
Strategy
Source: Ejiin
Tank party: PLDx2 GEOx2 WHM. Mage party: BLMx3 SCH GEOx2.
-PLD x2 was used because it has wonky hate, similar to Seiryu mechanics, where once damage is dealt to it, it will partial reset hate on its current target and chase the person who damaged it. This can be completely negated by having a 2nd tank who tries to get hate during periods when damage is done to it. Doing this, it did not chase BLM even once the entire fight.
-WHM was pulling hate a lot and wiping the backline, so we ended up having the WHM stand with the tanks.
-GEOs were used for vex/attunement/focus/wilt and entrust haste cycle for tank party, which made Teles very manageable to deal with. Focus was so the GEOs in the tank party could land dispel. GEOs in the mage party did standard mage GEO buffs/debuffs.
-Clarsach gives it many buffs, including Attack/MAB/MDB/Meva boosts, so it's a good idea to have several people on Dispel duty.
-Magic burst Death in pairs, spacing them out appropriately to avoid magic resistance mechanic to allow for 99,999 on each death.
Void Crystal x3 + Duskcrawler x3 + Bone Chip x10 + Scarletite Ingot
Notes:
-Spawns with 2 adds, Green Naraka has random hate, Blue one usually stays glued to the tank.
-Astral Flow at around 46 and 16, seems to be a hybrid between AF and Meikyo? Will do Sakra Storm or Yama's Judgment at the end of 4 TP move and spawn 2 more adds at the end of each AF, for a maximum of 6 adds. Will spawn a Green+Blue Naraka each time
-Meikyo Shisui at 74, 49, 24%, and spams it below 10%. Will also do Sakra Storm or Yama's Judgment as its 4th TP move.
-Yama's Judgment is 5-count doom.
-Meikyo Shisui during Raksha Stance : Judgment or Illusion > Judgment or Illusion > Vengeance > Yama's Judgment
-Meikyo Shisui during Yaksha Stance : Bliss or Damnation > Bliss or Damnation > Oblivion > Sakra Storm
-CAN BE STUNNED with elemental seal (save it for the 4th tp move of SP)
-Fairly resistant to most debuffs.
-Will heavily favor Raksha Stance which gives it -50% MDT. Can supposedly be terror/DT reset proc'd by completing a SC in the middle of the animation for a stance TP move.
-Killing adds will cause him to respawn one per TP move until he reaches his current maximum add capacity.
Strategy
Source: Papesse, Ramzus, Lyramion, Geigei
PT1: PLD RUN WHM SCH SCH BRD/BLM
PT2: BLM BLM BLM BLM GEO/WHM GEO/WHM
Buffs: Focus, Haste, Malaise, Languor, Entrust Acumen, Firestorm II
Fight is very heavily terrain dependent, Warp#2 highly recommended.
Like Albumen, this fight is highly dependent on BRD sleeps.
The mages should be positioned at the top of the hill, while the PLD tanks it at the bottom of the hill with their back facing the mages, Vinipata should be on the dirt path. Knock back makes this fight a total bitch, the PLD needs to be very alert and run immediately back to Vinipata if they get knocked back before it gets repositioned closer to the mages.
Part 1: Initial Spawn + Fighting
The BRD should open with NT CC Ele seal and sleep the adds right on pop. The PLD runs the NM down the hill, positions it. As soon as positioning is good, 1 GEO should bolster Focus+Malaise while the other does BoG Languor+Haste. The first SCH can also tabula rasa and then immediately start spamming fusion while the RUN Gamb/Raykes and the BLMs MB Firaja->Fire6. This fight is highly dependent on your ability to push Vinipata down to the next set of adds spawns.
GEOs should be helping with status ailments, particularly spamming cursna on the PLD on Yama's Judgment. Global recasts on Cursna make it hard for a single WHM to consistently remove it on time while dealing with curing+other debuffs.
As you continue to MB it down, prepare yourself at approximately 50% for Astral Flow to occur, and BLMs should change off of Firaja to just single target MBs. As soon as the AF animation goes at ~46, everyone should just gather ontop of it and wipe as soon as possible, having a good Helix II MB on it shortly before 50% is indispensable as it can whittle down a good 10% while someone zombies vinipata during recovery.
Part 2: Saccing
Right before wiping, someone needs to throw a Bio II or Dia II on Vinipata just in case to prevent it from regening while zombing. We had our GEO that used bolster sac it while we all recovered. It is highly important that you wipe TOWARDS THE DIRT PATH AS LOW AS POSSIBLE and remain there while waiting for weakness to wear, otherwise a stray TP move while saccing might wipe all of you again. When ready, get buffs up again, the BRD should this time use CC + SV ontop of the usual JAs for maximum duration sleep on adds, since the goal is to (hopefully) kill it before adds wake up this time.
Part 3: Killing it
Everyone repositions again, mages should hide at the very top of the hill in the little corner to avoid TP move on pull, BRD pulls with Horde Lullaby II again with all JA/SP while PLD stands on bottom of hill ready to flash Vinipata on pull.
Repeat the same thing, the 2nd GEO and SCH should now Bolster/TR (obviously switch bubbles on GEO so that you have Bolster Malaise+Focus again) and start SCing + Firaja/Fire6 with Gambit/Rayke. The RUN should also super revit so that they can Gambit+Rayke at low % again just to force it to 0, as <10% can get messy.
The BRD also needs to super revit before 25% to have JAs ready to immediately sleep adds 5/6 when they spawn. At that point, go back to strictly single target, and throw out another Gambit+Rayke, and hope that it dies before anything wakes up. You should IDEALLY have about 15 minutes left, but you may find that to not always be the case. If you wipe at <10% (we have at least 3 times), continue saccing it until the BRDs JA timers are up, it'll be a really bad time crunch as you have probably 3 min to finish it. You'll need to watch out too because it likes to use Meikyo frequently <10%, and when you start the fight it'll open up with 4 tp moves while repositioning, so everyone needs to stay away, as it will very easily wipe you.
This fight is very very dependent on how frequently it uses Raksha Stance. We've had fights take 12 min, and fights taken 29 min entirely because it stayed in Raksha Stance for 100% of the fight.
Void Grass x3 + Ashen Crayfish x3 + Flan Meat x10 + Black Pudding
Notes:
-Arguably the easiest fight, is a complete Zerg.
-Spawns with 2 adds that cause an approximate 21'? 400 dmg Bio Aura. Killing the adds will drop the aura until new ones spawn.
-Frequently spawns new adds, at <50% it gains access to adds that give a doom aura.
-Auras can be avoided by everyone except for PLD+WHM by abusing terrain on Warp 2.
-Gains access to charm at <50%.
-Can be proc'd with SC+Fire MBs (?)
Strategy
Source: Ramzus, Lyramion.
PT1: RUN PLD/BLU WHM
PT2: BLM BLM BLM SCH GEO GEO
(can alternatively throw SCH into tank PT after storms and bring 4 BLM).
Buffs: Languor, Malaise, Acumen, Focus, entrust Haste, Firestorm II
1 BLM should use elemental seal before pop, and immediately stun it when its popped to avoid a 10 second stun from Just Desserts. The fight entirely relies on this opening stun.
Once positioned, the PLD uses appropriate /BLU spells (Jettatura, Geist Wall, Sheep Song etc.) when adds spawn to hold hate. Everyone should abuse the hill terrain to be a good 23' away from the NM and avoid aura. We had both of our GEOs Bolster + have the SCH TR + Embrava both PTs and just zerged it down with Firaja->Fire 6 MBs in under 2 min.
The PLD+WHM should use Charm Buffer before 50% (around 60 is pretty good) as it goes down pretty fast, and might use charm fairly fast. It has a fairly large range on it, as our WHM got hit by it on our first win, so assume that it'll probably be 20'.
Every time we've fought it, SC+MB proc'd it around 60% and made it take very massive damage (i.e. multiple 99,999 Fire MBs) which made it drop really fast, I'm not sure how easy it is to replicate this.
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