Reisenjima T4s

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Reisenjima T4s
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 Fenrir.Ramzus
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By Fenrir.Ramzus 2016-11-15 12:27:27  
Leviathan.Comeatmebro said: »
i don't really see how there's any benefit to mewing albumen, most of his tp is harmless to a tank to begin with

onychophora made sense for a small group, but if you have 6 deaths it's dead in around 10 min with blms anyway.. just have someone sub smn and mewing right after you open compression

Mostly just to minimize dumb ***like doom/terror/hate reset. It isn't *necessary* by any means but if everyone is going to be standing around, then why not?

I don't know if it'll even work, it'll probably end up being too slow unless all the T4s have roughly the same HP.
 Fenrir.Ramzus
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By Fenrir.Ramzus 2016-11-15 12:47:20  
Verda said: »
I will say that for mage setups SMN on Onychophora can do upwards of 600k damage off the first darkness chain. We do SCH Helix II on wind, then when dark comes up RUN gambit/raykes and I mew. I wait for a few deaths to go off then conduit night terror for 30s. Night Terror is doing anywhere between 30k and 55k even without burst, with burst it's even more. We can get the worm to 51% before the 2nd rotation even starts sometimes. As most know most of the fight timer is after the 50% mark but it still helps to get to that point as fast as possible.

I get that SMN is strong, but the first 50% of Onychophora is basically irrelevant regardless of setup. If I had rotated people in from the other party to use their Lucid Wings and still have 12 wings leftover for 50-0, it would take roughly the same amount of time to take it down to 50%. Each WS round with 3 THF was doing 150k, so something like

WS->Wing->WS->Revit/Wing->WS->Wing->WS would take maybe no more than 1 minute total and we'd end up getting the same 600k damage as a SMN, and then we'd still have 12+ Lucid Wings and 0 risk of ever absorbing or having to deal with timing between spells.

I guess I shouldn't advocate that it is the *fastest* way to do it but I definitely found it the least frustrating of the ~5 times I've done it.
 Fenrir.Ramzus
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By Fenrir.Ramzus 2016-11-15 23:55:52  
follow up on albumen:

not SA rudra spam friendly at all
 Odin.Llewelyn
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By Odin.Llewelyn 2016-11-20 15:51:06  
If anyone still cares about Vinipata, with double Idris you can get away with 1 GEO doing Bolster on Languor and another GEO stacking Blaze/Ecliptic Attrition on Focus to reliably SCH Stun everything. Swap Bolster/Blaze JAs when first Bolster wears off and you got 7 mins of reliable Stuns, rendering him pretty much completely harmless the entire fight.
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 Asura.Reidden
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By Asura.Reidden 2016-12-22 22:10:14  
Did you use 2 sch's?
 Odin.Llewelyn
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By Odin.Llewelyn 2016-12-22 22:13:57  
If it's me you're asking, we have 1 SCH Tabula Rasa (if necessary) stunlock and 1 SCH Tabula Rasa Immanence spam. If you kill him fast enough, the SCH stunner won't even need to Tabula Rasa and you'll only need 1 GEO's Bolster, so you can do Vinipata/Zerde back-to-back without any resetting by having each GEO and SCH swap 1-hour roles for the 2 fights.
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 Asura.Reidden
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By Asura.Reidden 2016-12-24 09:46:27  
Cool, thanks for the info.
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 Odin.Llewelyn
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By Odin.Llewelyn 2017-02-18 06:54:51  
Was bored so I went out and got a few updated evasion estimates for some NMs.

Warder of Courage:
1682 acc - 55.87% hit rate (1099 samples)
[Estimated Evasion: 1720]

Onychophora:
1329 acc - 46.35% hit rate (507 samples)
[Estimated Evasion: 1386]

Teles:
1606 acc - 84.87% hit rate (1652 samples)
[Estimated Evasion: 1586]

Albumen:
1682 acc - 29.59% hit rate (970 samples)
[Estimated Evasion: 1773]

That's all I could get by myself. I don't have much people to help at 4 A.M.
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 Odin.Llewelyn
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By Odin.Llewelyn 2017-02-19 03:04:58  
Adding a couple more to the list. Lower samples than the above 'cause of how annoying they can be with damage output and dispels making me have to actually pay attention.

Schah:
1595 acc - 77.95% (440 samples)
[Estimated Evasion: 1589]

Vinipata:
1595 acc - 80.86% (162 samples)
[Estimated Evasion: 1583]

With how close they are to Teles in my limited sample, I'd venture to say they share her evasion, or pretty close to it.
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 Sylph.Braden
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By Sylph.Braden 2017-02-19 11:55:36  
Since Evasion at this level is purely a product of skill and Evasion Boost/Bonus, the three of them should be identical. Aside from Clarsach Call (which Distract III overwrites), I don't think any of them have any sort of evasion buff. Schah and Vini doing dispel/erase spam is a shame though.

A person with 1215-ish base accuracy eating Sublime +1 with maxed Vorseals+Fortitude and a regular Idris Torpor would have 95% hit rate. Pretty good as far as dispel-proof setups go.
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 Asura.Sechs
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By Asura.Sechs 2017-02-21 16:20:31  
Killed Albumen tonight with uh... 15 people I think?
2x RUNs
2x GEO (Idris)
1x afk GEO mule
1x BRD
4x BLMs
1x COR
1x RDM
2x SCH (could've totally gone with just one)
1x WHM
I had to resleep adds only once (my sleep last like... I don't remember, something around 7mins 40 seconds)
We used Soulvoice but only one Bolster because Albumen died before we remembered to use the second lol

So what can I say? Totally doable with mage setup, people were exxagerating when they reported "OMG IT'S IMPOSSIBLE!!"
I'll have to agree though that you can clearly notice a step up in difficulty.
Before the patch we could eat one or two levelups and still kill it.
Now even one levelup it's gonna be quite a huge impact on your killspeed, making you time out eventually if you use our slow strategy (which implies wiping after third wave of adds)
 Asura.Sechs
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By Asura.Sechs 2017-02-21 16:21:16  
For Snaps who was asking buffs used and Fire vs Death:


We used Death. In pairs when Rayke was down, all together when Rayke was up.
Bio2/Poison2/Requiem kept on the nm, Addle2 as well and of course Frazzle3. No clue if our RDM was Saboing, pretty confident he didn't Stymie.

COR was using Caster's/Tactician.
Songs on BLM pt were VictoryMarch, INT etudex2, Balladx2.
When SV dropped I swapped to double march, double int, single ballad out of habit, but honestly with the changes to march probably I should've kept the same buffs and just make sure someone was landing haste1 on them.
Actually I forgot we had a RDM that was probably haste2ing them... to used to do Albumen w/o RDM.

SCH was putting Voidstorm2 on mages then going back to the mid party.
I could tell you the random songs I was using on tanks (Marchx2, Minnex2, Balladx1) but that's hardly relevant tbf.

Don't think we had any other relevant buff.
Last time we tried Fire on Albumen (which is tons of time ago) it was doing ***damage compared to Death so we never went back to fire ever since.


BTW concerning BRD and landing stuff on Albumen.
Of course with NiTro up it's no issue.
But landing Threnody without Nitro was still hard for me, even with my gear (not BiS but pretty close to that) and Pear Crepe up.
I had Focus (Dunna) on me, and Idris Languor on Albumen.
And still... I had to CHRx2 myself and land Light Threnody first, to be able to reliably land Dark Threnody.
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 Leviathan.Comeatmebro
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By Leviathan.Comeatmebro 2017-02-21 16:26:36  
Couldn't get respectable death m.acc on teles using a m.acc death set and the full myriad of buffs(int etudex2, boostint, entrust indi-int, idris focus/languor, crooked warlocks, pear crepe, frazzle3)

probably could still gimp it down that way, but it appears the lack of ability to land threnody makes it a crapshoot, tried using one bolster at a time on languor and it still wasn't enough to get a decent land rate

at least it's not that bad melee
 Asura.Sechs
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By Asura.Sechs 2017-02-21 16:40:11  
macc-needs wise I'm sure Teles would be doable without Threnody, just with Frazzle3 and Idris Bolster stuff etc.

The problem with Teles is her phases and the "get the *** out" during Dia Aura and Mute aura.
Those things can really make you waste a lot of time I guess...


So yeah, think Teles might prove to be harder for us. Wonder if we'll manage to kill her mage-style...
 Fenrir.Snaps
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By Fenrir.Snaps 2017-02-21 16:57:31  
I would agree with that. If you didn't have Frazzle III for Teles then it wouldn't be a very good litmus test for magic accuracy.
 Leviathan.Comeatmebro
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By Leviathan.Comeatmebro 2017-02-21 18:08:17  
oh somehow left frazzle3 out of my buff list, derp

landed for full damage ~1/3 of the time if it was full dispelled

don't doubt it's still possible(got it to 40% in 20 min, but it was obvious i would have timed out and with melee as an option i warped instead of finishing it).. so with tweaks would only need 20-30% better performance than i had to win in time
 Leviathan.Comeatmebro
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By Leviathan.Comeatmebro 2017-02-22 09:19:45  
Anyone taken a physical smn setup to vinipata? With blunt bonus and the further reduced evasion, I bet volt strike wrecks.
 Asura.Avallon
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By Asura.Avallon 2017-02-22 09:37:33  
Leviathan.Comeatmebro said: »
Anyone taken a physical smn setup to vinipata? With blunt bonus and the further reduced evasion, I bet volt strike wrecks.

It does.

IIRC, we've successfully defeated every T4 with SMN now whether using physical or magic BP's.
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 Asura.Frod
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By Asura.Frod 2017-02-22 11:30:17  
Asura.Avallon said: »
Leviathan.Comeatmebro said: »
Anyone taken a physical smn setup to vinipata? With blunt bonus and the further reduced evasion, I bet volt strike wrecks.

It does.

IIRC, we've successfully defeated every T4 with SMN now whether using physical or magic BP's.

Offhand i've personally seen my smn handle well on everything but albumen. I'm unsure of the tactic on him currently.

Zerde smn is top dps, issue is i don't seem to be able to proc him with merited ifrit pact.

Teles, schah and vini are straight overbuff and volt spam.

Onychophora i could solo dps for a group of 4, if i got a cor wc proc. Damage alternates between phys pacts and diabolos for magic mode sub 50.
 Fenrir.Snaps
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By Fenrir.Snaps 2017-02-22 11:49:53  
Onychophora physical evasion is so low it leaves me wondering if it has similarly low magic evasion. Either way its physical evasion is so laughable it seems like you could use melee and stick to weaponskills that don't skillchain (no need for SATA). I could even see a solo DD pulling it off.
 Shiva.Spynx
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By Shiva.Spynx 2017-02-22 11:58:02  
Fenrir.Snaps said: »
Onychophora physical evasion is so low it leaves me wondering if it has similarly low magic evasion. Either way its physical evasion is so laughable it seems like you could use melee and stick to weaponskills that don't skillchain (no need for SATA). I could even see a solo DD pulling it off.

We always did Ony with melee as it's just easier for a melee to time damage spikes compared to nukes (especially if SC is involved). Its evasion wasn't that crazy pre-update but now it's just a joke. The only annoying part is the massive stat- that will make your WS do little dmg but with competent DDs and some luck with fire/earth switches, it's a pretty quick and easy fight.
 Odin.Taffy
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By Odin.Taffy 2017-02-22 12:36:45  
Shiva.Spynx said: »
Fenrir.Snaps said: »
Onychophora physical evasion is so low it leaves me wondering if it has similarly low magic evasion. Either way its physical evasion is so laughable it seems like you could use melee and stick to weaponskills that don't skillchain (no need for SATA). I could even see a solo DD pulling it off.

We always did Ony with melee as it's just easier for a melee to time damage spikes compared to nukes (especially if SC is involved). Its evasion wasn't that crazy pre-update but now it's just a joke. The only annoying part is the massive stat- that will make your WS do little dmg but with competent DDs and some luck with fire/earth switches, it's a pretty quick and easy fight.

We did Ony with the Erinys method and it was just as easy.
 Asura.Frod
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By Asura.Frod 2017-02-22 13:06:16  
Shiva.Spynx said: »
Fenrir.Snaps said: »
Onychophora physical evasion is so low it leaves me wondering if it has similarly low magic evasion. Either way its physical evasion is so laughable it seems like you could use melee and stick to weaponskills that don't skillchain (no need for SATA). I could even see a solo DD pulling it off.

We always did Ony with melee as it's just easier for a melee to time damage spikes compared to nukes (especially if SC is involved). Its evasion wasn't that crazy pre-update but now it's just a joke. The only annoying part is the massive stat- that will make your WS do little dmg but with competent DDs and some luck with fire/earth switches, it's a pretty quick and easy fight.


For onychophora a smn can swap to diabolos for magic mode and land night terror for 15k-20k without mab/macc related buff/debuffs.
 Shiva.Spynx
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By Shiva.Spynx 2017-02-22 13:24:52  
Odin.Taffy said: »
Shiva.Spynx said: »
Fenrir.Snaps said: »
Onychophora physical evasion is so low it leaves me wondering if it has similarly low magic evasion. Either way its physical evasion is so laughable it seems like you could use melee and stick to weaponskills that don't skillchain (no need for SATA). I could even see a solo DD pulling it off.

We always did Ony with melee as it's just easier for a melee to time damage spikes compared to nukes (especially if SC is involved). Its evasion wasn't that crazy pre-update but now it's just a joke. The only annoying part is the massive stat- that will make your WS do little dmg but with competent DDs and some luck with fire/earth switches, it's a pretty quick and easy fight.

We did Ony with the Erinys method and it was just as easy.

So basically tactician+lullaby and just watch for casting modes? Should work fine but feel it would be slower than melee it fulltime and watch for absorb TP moves/magic modes (probably since we bring an army so it has like twice the HP it should have so need a lot of damage)
 Fenrir.Snaps
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By Fenrir.Snaps 2017-02-22 14:58:32  
My experience with sandworms is that once you get more than 2 people full time meleeing them, your progress slows down due to accidental healing.
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 Carbuncle.Papesse
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By Carbuncle.Papesse 2017-02-22 18:25:42  
Asura.Frod said: »
Offhand i've personally seen my smn handle well on everything but albumen. I'm unsure of the tactic on him currently.
I had the same problem for a while but on the last Albumen I did Ramuh was finally able to do 35~60k BPs. I just couldn't really cap acc on this one before Omen gear and the last evasion patch. Guard can completely cripple BPs also.
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 Asura.Frod
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By Asura.Frod 2017-02-22 19:53:53  
Carbuncle.Papesse said: »
Asura.Frod said: »
Offhand i've personally seen my smn handle well on everything but albumen. I'm unsure of the tactic on him currently.
I had the same problem for a while but on the last Albumen I did Ramuh was finally able to do 35~60k BPs. I just couldn't really cap acc on this one before Omen gear and the last evasion patch. Guard can completely cripple BPs also.

Yeah, my few attempts with albumen were quite a bit ago, and involved completely dropping the ball on buffs (bad geo bubbles, no cor rolls, no rdm). i suspect with all three it'd be more reasonable. Whats current acc requirement for regular DD?
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By Asura.Sechs 2017-02-23 01:21:03  
Fenrir.Snaps said: »
My experience with sandworms is that once you get more than 2 people full time meleeing them, your progress slows down due to accidental healing.
This is my fear but honestly has always been the issue with Onychophora even with mage setup.

To a certain extent I think you could say every T4 is harder with a full alliance of people rather whan with a perfect, compact number, but that's even more true with Onychophora.

He can swap Earth/Fire mode even with silenced and even if he does no TP move, right?
About who hypothesyzed Ony to have low meva because of low eva before, I can say it's not true for the Meva.
Not sure if things changed lately (I haven't personally fought Ony in months) but his meva was pretty high and sticking Silence wasn't easy.

Someone claimed his meva drops to the floor during a TP move but somehow that never proved to be true for us =/
 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2017-02-23 01:30:42  
Asura.Sechs said: »
sticking Silence wasn't easy.

That's a huge *** mistake right there, don't silence him, in fact you don't want to silence most of anything big now. This is because spells take time to cast, which we can lengthen using Addle II or Pinning and the longer it's spent casting a spell the less time it's spent doing TP moves. Spells are easy to deal with, it's the TP moves with their shitty status ailments that are hard. In the worms case you want him casting so you can see which mode he's in, silencing him doesn't prevent him from switching modes, it only prevents you from knowing about it.
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