Reisenjima T4s

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Reisenjima T4s
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 Fenrir.Ramzus
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By Fenrir.Ramzus 2016-10-30 17:03:04  
Fair enough, I've found it to be less reliable with mages but the ally isn't mostly controlled by 2-3 people when we do it mage style
 Siren.Kyte
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By Siren.Kyte 2016-10-30 18:12:51  
Quote:
WHM should also use Baraero to reduce Clarasch Call damage.

Isn't it light damage?
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 Fenrir.Ramzus
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By Fenrir.Ramzus 2016-10-30 18:26:44  
Siren.Kyte said: »
Quote:
WHM should also use Baraero to reduce Clarasch Call damage.

Isn't it light damage?

I dunno, but baraero seems to help reduce damage although that's not easily quantifiable since damage is sort of random in the first place anyway
 Sylph.Braden
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By Sylph.Braden 2016-10-30 19:02:50  
It's definitely Wind/Breath, we tested it with Liement and DT gear a while ago. Don't know where Light came from.
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 Siren.Kyte
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By Siren.Kyte 2016-10-30 19:11:47  
Is Sonic Buffet also wind? That's one fight I've never gone RUN on, so I've never had the chance to check myself. Given the absorption mechanic and spell usage, it isn't terribly surprising that its magical moves would be wind-based as well.
 Sylph.Braden
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By Sylph.Braden 2016-10-30 19:17:49  
Yeah, both of em are Wind. edit: here's the link to our findings:
http://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/48529/the-official-bgwiki-thread/4/#3101382

Has anyone ever seen a !! proc off of Darkness? Pretty sure the only time I ever saw it was when we melee'd it, our THF was dead and I was making solo Distortion > Darkness instead of our usual Darkness > Darkness.
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By Afania 2016-11-03 02:25:57  
Fenrir.Ramzus said: »
For anyone curious in trying melee strats, they are the definitive way of doing Kirin/Teles/WoC.

I believe 1150 base acc before food/vorseals/buffs is enough to cap accuracy on WoC and Kirin (Bolster Torp/Precision, SV Honor/Mad/Mad) and you need a little bit more for Teles.

For WoC I like to use:

BLU BLU BLU BLU GEO WHM
PLD GEO GEO RDM

RDM can ES sabo Distract III during bracelets and help baby sit the PLD, as can the GEOs in that PT. Buffs are Bolster Precision/Attunement (melee pt), and Bolster Torp/Frail/Vex/Wilt. I think he does maybe 400 dmg total per person in the course of the fight. We also use 2 outside CORs for Sam/Rogue/Fight/Miser, and an outside BRD for Honor March/V March/Mad/Mad/Scherzo.

We buff in front of the Temporary Item NPC so our CORs can spam buy Super Revitalizers to guarantee 11s on all rolls via Snake Eye spam.

We've managed to kill WoC in 2min 45sec via this method without losing yet, the increase in kill speed really reduces the variability in winning since it has a smaller chance of using Benediction/Charm. You can also replace a BLU for a THF to Larceny PD or Invincible if it uses it.

Just want to chime in and say that 1 tank 4 DD 3 geo(+sch cor brd prebuff) setup works extremely well on woc. But I wanted to add a few more thoughts...

2nd healer in tank pt is completely not necessary because we take so little dmg most of the time with extra defensive bubbles. In fact even DD pt healer is not all that necessary if you get a pro healer geo. You can probably move whm to tank pt for extra DD spot or remove whm from ally and only use prebuff whm for bar and proshell.

We managed to push kill speed to 2 min 10 sec using war, run and thf as DD x4. I wouldn't be surprised if a DDx5 setup like this ended up pushing the kill time closer to 1.5 min

Pt1 Tank geo geo rdm(or whm, rdm generates more dps with inundation but whm has cureskin)
Pt2 War war war war thf geo(sj whm to help with cure)

Prebuff sch, cor x2, brd

Every war ms mid fight of course. Thf is there to steal pd, maybe change 1 war to another thf for sc purpose since mandalic stab sc with reso.
 Asura.Chiaia
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By Asura.Chiaia 2016-11-03 05:59:07  
Afania said: »
Prebuff sch, cor x2, brd
Prebuff?!?!? Wheres the DD COR love at Afania?

P.S. I know you were showing an (maybe) optimal setup. :P
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By Afania 2016-11-03 07:52:54  
Oh and forgot to mention one more thing, people have been suspecting woc having crit-hit rate- trait during bracelet mode, this is probably true according to parse data. There's one longer fight that woc bene and killed one DD with Mijin, the DD that died early(thus spent more time tp pre bracelet) ended up parsed 31% crit rate while the other 2 none WAR DDs that spent majority of time tp during bracelet only parsed 17% crit rate. The gap seems huge so the rumor is probably true.

That probably made crit hit ws DD such as blu not so ideal in this fight.

Asura.Chiaia said: »
Afania said: »
Prebuff sch, cor x2, brd
Prebuff?!?!? Wheres the DD COR love at Afania?

P.S. I know you were showing an (maybe) optimal setup. :P

I would totally DD COR if I can reset MS with WC all fight, every fight =X
 Fenrir.Ramzus
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By Fenrir.Ramzus 2016-11-03 08:57:59  
I did say that I only took 400 damage total across the entire fight! One can infer that a WHM isn't necessary based off of that 8D

But yes, we've been meaning to gear up a few GS WARs to try things... all of the WARs in our LS are sword or Gaxe Q_Q. My RUN has been parsing particularly well on things too
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By Afania 2016-11-03 09:16:57  
With many endgame NM favoring melee zerg with 1hr spam I'm kinda surprised that WAR isn't being bandwagoned more :p
 Odin.Llewelyn
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By Odin.Llewelyn 2016-11-03 09:23:48  
People finally get the opportunity to play their main/favorite melee jobs on high level content. Some people would rather do that than play a job they may not care about just because it's faster.
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 Asura.Avallon
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By Asura.Avallon 2016-11-03 09:31:17  
Afania said: »
With many endgame NM favoring melee zerg with 1hr spam I'm kinda surprised that WAR isn't being bandwagoned more :p

Not all WAR's are created equal - at least not that I've seen.
 Asura.Fiasko
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By Asura.Fiasko 2016-11-03 09:41:49  
Afania said: »
rdm generates more dps with inundation but whm has cureskin

And to be fair War x 4 are not skillchaining at all with a Resolution spam.
 Fenrir.Snaps
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By Fenrir.Snaps 2016-11-03 10:52:45  
Afania said: »
With many endgame NM favoring melee zerg with 1hr spam I'm kinda surprised that WAR isn't being bandwagoned more :p

I can't say this about every end game linkshell, but I know that for our group we focused on BLU because of its perceived advantages. Then we realized the fTP for CDC was much lower than originally thought, and that it's only average. The reason we don't use WAR for melee zergs is because we have BLU leveled and geared and it's good enough. That said, a good WAR (with Mighty Strikes up) can do 60%~ or more marginal damage than the way our BLUs are set up. I can see even a mediocre WAR outparsing a godly BLU (assuming playstyle is equal).
 Fenrir.Snaps
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By Fenrir.Snaps 2016-11-03 10:53:33  
Asura.Fiasko said: »
Afania said: »
rdm generates more dps with inundation but whm has cureskin

And to be fair War x 4 are not skillchaining at all with a Resolution spam.

Neither are 4x BLU with the right buffs. WS just go off too fast.
 Asura.Avallon
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By Asura.Avallon 2016-11-03 11:09:19  
Anything can happen. I saw a well-geared RDM beat a BLU in parse on a VD HTBC.
 Asura.Boogerballs
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By Asura.Boogerballs 2016-11-03 13:12:37  
Afania said: »
Fenrir.Ramzus said: »
For anyone curious in trying melee strats, they are the definitive way of doing Kirin/Teles/WoC.

I believe 1150 base acc before food/vorseals/buffs is enough to cap accuracy on WoC and Kirin (Bolster Torp/Precision, SV Honor/Mad/Mad) and you need a little bit more for Teles.

For WoC I like to use:

BLU BLU BLU BLU GEO WHM
PLD GEO GEO RDM

RDM can ES sabo Distract III during bracelets and help baby sit the PLD, as can the GEOs in that PT. Buffs are Bolster Precision/Attunement (melee pt), and Bolster Torp/Frail/Vex/Wilt. I think he does maybe 400 dmg total per person in the course of the fight. We also use 2 outside CORs for Sam/Rogue/Fight/Miser, and an outside BRD for Honor March/V March/Mad/Mad/Scherzo.

We buff in front of the Temporary Item NPC so our CORs can spam buy Super Revitalizers to guarantee 11s on all rolls via Snake Eye spam.

We've managed to kill WoC in 2min 45sec via this method without losing yet, the increase in kill speed really reduces the variability in winning since it has a smaller chance of using Benediction/Charm. You can also replace a BLU for a THF to Larceny PD or Invincible if it uses it.

Just want to chime in and say that 1 tank 4 DD 3 geo(+sch cor brd prebuff) setup works extremely well on woc. But I wanted to add a few more thoughts...

2nd healer in tank pt is completely not necessary because we take so little dmg most of the time with extra defensive bubbles. In fact even DD pt healer is not all that necessary if you get a pro healer geo. You can probably move whm to tank pt for extra DD spot or remove whm from ally and only use prebuff whm for bar and proshell.

We managed to push kill speed to 2 min 10 sec using war, run and thf as DD x4. I wouldn't be surprised if a DDx5 setup like this ended up pushing the kill time closer to 1.5 min

Pt1 Tank geo geo rdm(or whm, rdm generates more dps with inundation but whm has cureskin)
Pt2 War war war war thf geo(sj whm to help with cure)

Prebuff sch, cor x2, brd

Every war ms mid fight of course. Thf is there to steal pd, maybe change 1 war to another thf for sc purpose since mandalic stab sc with reso.

Im kinda curious why u guys are using a pld over a run for this. With that much firepower theres no way in hell the pld is going to keep hate. Run can hold the adds and still put out a good amount of dmg. Hell, with a good healer the run might even be able to use lionheart instead of epo. Ill have to ask my ls tanks on using lionheart over epo but i do know the pld is a wasted slot.
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By Nocki 2016-11-03 13:16:44  
I was with Afania last night when we tried this, and she held hate on RUN just fine. It's fairly easy to do so if there's no skillchain damage happening, and if the THFs (if there are any) TA the tank. We had 1 run where the WAR pulled hate but it was because the other THF and I both TAd him at the beginning. I personally think RUN is better than PLD for these fights because if he summons WYnavs and then does Astral Flow combo, you can just Sforzo it.

With the buffs we did last night the tank party only got marches and defensive rolls, so the hybrid DD tank RUN wouldn't have been fully buffed to the same extent as the DDs. DD party had SV Honor March + Madrigal x2, Bolster Idris Precision, and CC 11 Hunter's Roll. If we had a 3rd outside COR, another GEO, and coordinated BRD timing better then perhaps that's a possibility. But as it stands currently, using Lionheart would just result in a lot of missing.
 Asura.Avallon
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By Asura.Avallon 2016-11-03 13:19:49  
Nocki said: »
I was with Afania last night when we tried this, and she held hate on RUN just fine. It's fairly easy to do so if there's no skillchain damage happening, and if the THFs (if there are any) TA the tank. We had 1 run where the WAR pulled hate but it was because the other THF and I both TAd him at the beginning. I personally think RUN is better than PLD for these fights because if he summons WYnavs and then does Astral Flow combo, you can just Sforzo it.

Sshschforzo...

(inside joke)
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 Fenrir.Ramzus
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By Fenrir.Ramzus 2016-11-03 13:20:31  
Our PLD holds hate fine. RUN tank is a wasted slot in the DD party when you can just use a real DD RUN and deal more damage
 Fenrir.Snaps
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By Fenrir.Snaps 2016-11-03 13:25:30  
Afania said: »
Oh and forgot to mention one more thing, people have been suspecting woc having crit-hit rate- trait during bracelet mode, this is probably true according to parse data. There's one longer fight that woc bene and killed one DD with Mijin, the DD that died early(thus spent more time tp pre bracelet) ended up parsed 31% crit rate while the other 2 none WAR DDs that spent majority of time tp during bracelet only parsed 17% crit rate. The gap seems huge so the rumor is probably true.

As far as I know, the only time this was ever mentioned was on a single stream of one WoC fight. It came across as absurd speculation to me because it was based on lower CDC damage. Given that it's been known that WoC takes reduced damage (of all forms) with bracelets out, it's hard not to see this as shooting from the hip. If you suspect this, then you should do a more thorough test using scoreboard pre and post bracelets (I'll do one next WoC), otherwise it's just hearsay.
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 Asura.Fujilives
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By Asura.Fujilives 2016-11-03 13:27:56  
Asura.Boogerballs said: »
Im kinda curious why u guys are using a pld over a run for this.

While it's true a RUN DD/Tank hybrid can help speed it up (especially low-man), for WoC, PLD is still probably the better tank in general. They will have very little support in a melee setup so them being extra sturdy helps, and there aren't many status-ailments in play that you'd be seeking a RUN's resistance for. Relic shield does a really great job of reducing magic dmg, paired with PLD's actual defense and block for those fun times with 9 wyverns (the post-bracelet wyverns can still dish out some hurt). For the time's we've used a RUN, we've also used some form of barrier/wilt to support them. Epeoletry definitely makes this a little different, with an additional 20% pdtII over Aettier (and don't get me wrong, a RUN tank can do completely fine on this with just Aettier), but I'd still favor PLD, given the choice.

For Kirin, RUN as the main tank should still be superior. They offer much more utility for fighting that particular type of NM; everything from resistance, to straight up nerfing the nm's actual output, they have a lot to offer there.
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By Afania 2016-11-03 14:20:52  
Odin.Llewelyn said: »
People finally get the opportunity to play their main/favorite melee jobs on high level content. Some people would rather do that than play a job they may not care about just because it's faster.

I'm not advocating bandwagoning, Im just saying people have the tendency to bandwagon strongest dps job in certain content =p Like how people bandwagon bst, sam, mnk, blu etc etc.
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By Afania 2016-11-03 14:21:37  
Asura.Fiasko said: »
Afania said: »
rdm generates more dps with inundation but whm has cureskin

And to be fair War x 4 are not skillchaining at all with a Resolution spam.


There's thf ._.
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By Calinari 2016-11-03 14:33:49  
Bandwagoning only really exists in shout. The important mobs are rarely shouted.

Bandwagnarok is real. Ffxi is just extremely slow to catch up. The second HELM reisen shouts become common, you'll see "bandwagnarok war do you have it?"

The evasion update is still too new for ffxi players to catch on to, it takes a few months for players (not in top groups) to catch on.
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By Verda 2016-11-03 14:49:43  
Reso only does good with very good gear and optimal conditions or using MS, basically using one of the best 1 hours in the game and/or overcoming the attack penalty is required to make reso good. The rest the time you might as well be spamming cdc or something because it will do more damage, since these conditions aren't usually met in pick up groups it is very hard for others to see Reso being effective. Also, bandwagon exists everywhere, people in ls's change jobs they focus on or build RMEA for, those setups become more common in events, if they aren't in events and shouting then they will shout for setups they prefer or seen work very effectively usually, others see this or hear others preferences and so on. Bandwagoning isn't isolated to pubs that is sort of obvious. I'll agree people are slow to catch on to stuff though, but not always.

Leaden used for woc still not something we do, due to lack of any cor good at it. Most people will never use trueflight in their entire lives or even see it used. Etc. But the mnk buff is a whisper on the wind and ppl going nuts about it already.
 Sylph.Braden
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By Sylph.Braden 2016-11-03 14:55:11  
Afania said: »
Oh and forgot to mention one more thing, people have been suspecting woc having crit-hit rate- trait during bracelet mode, this is probably true according to parse data. There's one longer fight that woc bene and killed one DD with Mijin, the DD that died early(thus spent more time tp pre bracelet) ended up parsed 31% crit rate while the other 2 none WAR DDs that spent majority of time tp during bracelet only parsed 17% crit rate. The gap seems huge so the rumor is probably true.

That probably made crit hit ws DD such as blu not so ideal in this fight.

Dunno about Crit Rate (WAR does get +10% from Gifts, plus Blood Rage and Ragnarok), but he should definitely have at least Crit. Def. Bonus II from being a DRG since he has Dragon Killer.
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By Bahamut.Boogerballs 2016-11-03 14:58:27  
Asura.Avallon said: »
Nocki said: »
I was with Afania last night when we tried this, and she held hate on RUN just fine. It's fairly easy to do so if there's no skillchain damage happening, and if the THFs (if there are any) TA the tank. We had 1 run where the WAR pulled hate but it was because the other THF and I both TAd him at the beginning. I personally think RUN is better than PLD for these fights because if he summons WYnavs and then does Astral Flow combo, you can just Sforzo it.

Sshschforzo...

(inside joke)

S4ZO!!!!!!!!!
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By Afania 2016-11-03 15:02:29  
Sylph.Braden said: »
Afania said: »
Oh and forgot to mention one more thing, people have been suspecting woc having crit-hit rate- trait during bracelet mode, this is probably true according to parse data. There's one longer fight that woc bene and killed one DD with Mijin, the DD that died early(thus spent more time tp pre bracelet) ended up parsed 31% crit rate while the other 2 none WAR DDs that spent majority of time tp during bracelet only parsed 17% crit rate. The gap seems huge so the rumor is probably true.

That probably made crit hit ws DD such as blu not so ideal in this fight.

Dunno about Crit Rate (WAR does get +10% from Gifts, plus Blood Rage and Ragnarok), but he should definitely have at least Crit. Def. Bonus II from being a DRG since he has Dragon Killer.


The DD that died is a thf, compare with another thf tp the whole time with bracelet up crit rate is 17% vs 31%.

I agree that sample size is probably too small to say woc definitely has enemy critical hit rate-, so if anyone wants to provide more parse result itd be great.

If it's critical hit def bonus then wouldn't MS take a hit too .-.
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