Populism And Nationalism On The Rise In Europe

Stop reading 1984. I can tell it's your favourite book but it isn't useful in this conversation.

The conflating of facism with communism is delicious. The association of socialism to the left is like a cherry on top of this misinformed sundae.

What's next anarcho-liberation-theocratic-corporatism?

Wait that could actually be a thing...

There's a difference between education and propaganda.

And unless I severely misunderstood, Seha is not saying "EDUCATE THEM ON HOW WRONG THEY ARE", as much as saying "Give them education and the ability to rationally approach topics, in general".

But hey, I could be wrong, it's happened before.

One libation to rule them all!

Please don't bother, I blocked the guy last year for obvious reasons.

"It's what Seha is saying" lol, no, no it wasn't and I trust there's people around here who are capable of understanding that.

Hey but if you tell a lie enough times...we should educate people on how to recognize those scumbags but that would fascist.

Anti-brexit politician murdered by man shouting "Britain first"

...

I can't bring myself to play a game of political football with a mother's murder, just expecting a lot of appeals to emotion from the left rather than analysis of the individual's extensive mental health history.

From what I gathered Cameron suspended all talks about Brexit so that's hardly gonna be used that way?

From what I read both sides suspended their campagins for a day.

I had something typed out in this thread about it, but deemed it too early to make assumptions. Police was still investigating wether it was shouted or not at that point too.

Today I found this, people who knew the murderer talking about him. It's pretty much what I expected him to be. https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/jun/16/suspect-in-mp-killing-described-as-quiet-polite-and-reserved

I think we should still wait for more information before linking this action to to this thread. At least till we have a motive or a psychological expertise.
While I do think that a poisoned debate culture working with descriptions of enemies rather than opponents can influence people with below average intelligence, or like maybe in this case with mental health problems, and make them committing offenses, it would be a mistake to judge this specific case too early.
If it turns out to be a different motive, populists who remained calm during the initial outrage are not ashamed to abuse these cases for their perverted logic. Like it happened with the boy on turkey's beach last year. Even if all the reasoning remains true, if the specific initial case turns out to be different, argueing becomes impossible when they can hide their irrationality behind a single fact.

That's why I deleted what I wanted to say yesterday. Till we have more evidence.

I read he is tied to neonazis so seemed fitting.

10-15 years into the future, a Britain outside the EU will be a miserable place. Don't know if there are any Brits on here above the age of 35, but I remember 1980's/1990's Britain, before Thatchers new Britain started to bloom. (I hate her, but she did take Britain out of the miserable God forsaken shithole it was).

There were no Mcdonalds in London, maybe 1?
No international cuisine.
No trendy clothing.
No coffee shops.
3 wheel horrible cars everywhere.
Bad teeth, everywhere..
People smelt like PCP Iodine.
Shitty furniture.
Everyday breakfast was eggs on toast, and tea time was sacred.. no one on the streets past 5pm. Town shut down at 5:45, but people disappeared well before that - at the same time as Home & Away and Neighbours would start. Afterwards everyone would be in bed by 8pm and awake by 5 am. What a miserable horrible Britain it was. People wore the same shoes all year round. You had one scarf and one pair of mittens and if you lost them you were buggered. The cafeteria lady had moles growing on her moles. You dreaded seeing her, but you needed to eat to survive! for after lunch break was British History; a prolonged torture session.
Wake up at 6, still dark out. On the bus to school at 7:15 on the 52A for Lawnswood.... still dark outside... someone shagging in the back of the bus, someone else is selling drugs. Someone's not on the bus because his dad pummeled his face when he got back from the pub. 7:45, arrive to school, still dark outside and freezing. Greeted by grumpy, openly racist home class teacher.

Everything looked like "1980's Britain" - if you're old enough to have seen it, you know just how shitty that was.

Leaving the EU will isolate Britain back into bad teeth, social lives revolving solely around pubs, no good clothing, chimney sweepers and Marry Poppins.

Oh and did I mention, EVERYONE was poor and couldn't afford any luxuries? The best car on the block was a 1967 Mercedes, 2nd best was a 1970's beetle.

^ What nonsense. United Kingdom is the 5th biggest economy.

Isolation... Japan is 'isolated', yet it is the 3rd largest economy. China is the 2nd largest economy, China too is 'isolated'. This so called isolation doesn't mean you suddenly become non multicultural, backward thinking, archaic. Culture is ever evolving, but the indigenous culture and values should be preserved and treasured too.

Businesses and entrepreneurs makes the economy. The people make society. Nothing wrong with migration, it just needs to be controlled. China and Japan have controlled/strict migration policies. Education and travel also plays a huge part of opening people's eyes and understanding.

The rich poor divide is worse now than in the 70's. What is your point? The rich poor divide is huge in all developed countries. At least one could argue the British have at least a fairly decent benefits system - which one should argue should be used for the 'locals' first. Most of the EU countries are poor, high unemployment, what makes sticking in the EU better with other member states failing but because of this political union you are forced to step in.

European Union (EU) has changed - for the worse.
Great Britain has changed and will continue to change and adapt.
The world has changed and there is definitely more opportunities outside of EU than within. Hello BRIC, hello APAC.

During this referendum lots of people are confusing Europe and European Union (EU). Europe is the continent, Great Britain will forever be a part of Europe. EU however is a political system that is failing political ideology - one Great Britain must leave.

But they have strong gun laws in the UK how could this happen !

Dude Japan exported Manga and Anime, China exports cheap goods.. Britain exported....Thomas the tank engine and Paddington...

Even parts of England want to leave Britain. to join Scotland... SCOTLAND!!! S C O T L A N D !

Not to mention Harry Potter and LOTS of movies and TV shows.

But GB used to export coal, cars and motorcycles, rifles and shotguns, and even further back locomotives.

I still own a brace of Nortons....

GB, like the USA, destroyed its heavy industrial base. They just did it a bit earlier.

UK - 5th biggest economy.
UK unemployment rate - 5.1%
UK population 64 million.

Italy - 9th biggest economy.
Italy unemployment rate - 11.2%.
Italy population 60 million.

2016 figures. Someone on the other hand is stuck in the 80's.

I rest my case.

Throwing random data in there?
You're mentioning Italy why exactly?

which is exactly where the UK is heading if it leaves the EU - my entire point.

If the Leave campaign wins then it is the end of David Cameron as his masters in Brussels will ensure his departure. We then have Boris Johnson as PM, because the people simply will not have George Osborne in No. 10.

If the Remain campaign wins then it is the end of Boris Johnson in mainstream politics and its the death of UKIP. It also greatly emboldens the left in the next election but it also boosts Cameron for keeping the UK in the EU.

If you're a foreigner looking in it's time to get the deck chair and beers out because...

First projections say 52% for remain, 48% for exit.

Mind you these are not official polls.

Anyway I was convinced since the beginning that remain would win. And I still think it's safe to believe that.

Looks like Nigel Farage feels that he and the UKIP lost.

I think this loss of theirs could be a nice cutthroat for all other parties across Europe who wanted to attempt the same thing and were hoping to gain momentum from a brexit.

Alright first real data (only 5/382 sections though) 50.5% exit, 49.5% remain.

5 Have declared, Remain has taken the lead.
Im going to bed
lets see the madness tommorow