The 6th Ministry's Secret: A Summoner's Guide (v2)

Question! Is this a mewing parse?

im down for a mewing parse

#teammewing represent!

Amnesia cost you that run, even with an 80 fc set, you are going to lose ~3+ pacts on each smn when it gets off. Try again with a run or whm to avoid that debuff.

Also, post the parse numbers please.





Again. Does anyone have direct info on what, if any, macc is on nirvana? I was under the impression that it has nothing beyond like 5 or 10 int and a well aug'd grio runs loops around it.

The way everyone posts, I was under the impression you would still win easily with an amnesia using nirvana. Is that not the case?

How does a run or whm prevent the avatar from being amnesiaed?

Didn't parse it and working on other 2 nirvanas so wasn't planning on retrying, but if it's that interesting to people I can pop one later.

i think a big part of it is 6 boxing. theres alot going on and ots going to be hard to cover everything even with bots

i 6boxed first non-jp win on B&W, both other master trials, 12boxed every rei t4 both before and after patch and tumult curator

issue isn't the multiboxing, i'm asking straight out:

Can you win reliably, with nirvana, if amnesia lands on your avatar? Everyone seems to say the answer is yes, but frod just implied otherwise.

thats cute and all but that was before the last update. everything changed and theres alot going on

frod couldn't smn his way out of a paperbag. i think you need to figure ***out a little more. its probably doable, even while 6 boxing, but youre gonna need to get into the right rhythm

You're being condescending and ignoring the question. My bots are not wasting any time anywhere, trust me. I'm not claiming my result reflects everything. I'm asking a question to determine whether I should be finishing Nirvana or not, given it would pretty much only be useful on this fight and Teles for me.

If you can reliably win, even if amnesia goes off, great.

If you can't, it's a waste of my time to bother with SMN for this.

It's not that complicated, stop assuming you know anything about my bots.

Also, I don't see Frod as god's gift to SMN. He doesn't understand all of the mechanics, he doesn't do his own math usually, and he posts some things that are blatantly wrong(like supporting Was).

However, saying he 'couldnt smn his way out of a paperbag' when he's quite clearly got some of the most time of anyone spent on the job and top notch gear reeks of false bravado. You have nothing to back your word up, as far as anyone here is concerned you're nobody.

im not saying i know anything about YOUR bots, i just know bots in general. as for your question about finishing nirvana, do it. even if u do somehow miraculously pull this off without nirvana smns (HQ ofc), it probably isnt as reliable as using nirvanas.

I can do it in 20 min with other setups without losing.

If nirvana can reliably kill it, even when amnesia lands on avatar, having a nirvana is an improvement.

If there's a meaningful chance of loss, it's a waste of time because the time difference isn't that high versus a reliable strategy.

Everyone who uses this setup seems to tout it as a reliable kill method, but nobody has been willing to outright tell me that it's still a win with amnesia during conduit. That makes me suspect it's not, or they're unsure, or they've lost runs to amnesia and don't want to devalue smn by admitting it.

im nobody? isnt that the pot calling the kettle black? im not the one that needs 2 6 box to get ***done. after this convo im gonna change my advice. quit while youre behind and find a ls capable of killing this lvl of content. u have 6 characters so u have 6 chances of finding a ls that doesnt think youre a peice of crap

Run s ja greatly lowers the target's macc, possibly letting pet resist debuffs. Whm's asylum boosts your resist.

If your pet is amnesiad. A resummon will cost you time and a couple bps during conduit, more if you dont have full fc. It will reduce your damage. You want the entire 30s, with convert or mists to maximize output.

If you're amnesia'd. You lose alot more time and are pretty ***.

Other options i've discussed with tab are conduiting mewling or chainspell stun. Both untested. I dont know how many stuns he could take before resist or length of the stuns.


Booger is just being his usual shitheaded self. Racist as hell too.

Thanks very much for a clear and concise answer, you covered all of my questions thoroughly. My issue was with the avatar being amnesiaed, obviously used Moneta's Tonic on SMNs.

Don't know what's wrong with that guy, but holy ***is he dense.

Moneta's Tonic is obviously useful in case you need to get close(r) for whatever reason, but unless I'm missing something, if your avatar gets amnesia'd, you're screwed. This especially sucks since in the case of a low-man Schah run, you're most likely in the middle of a Conduit when it gets amnesia'd.

Resummoning and getting back after it to finish Schah off is all you can do (maybe have Wild Card standing by for emergencies or something).

Come to think of it, I haven't tested whether any of the pet-related temporary items works for pet amnesia, so maybe that might be an option. Either way you lose precious Conduit time regardless.

As for your Nirvana question:

It's absolutely essential for SMN. I'm not sure where the whole SMN thread bias thing came from (unrelated post) but unless there's a better staff out there that I'm not aware of, Nirvana is the best weapon for physical BP's.

I've followed enough of your posts to at least know that you are doing high-tier NM's where this weapon can determine whether your Volt Strike does 5k damage (or less) or 50k damage (or more). Since you're multi-boxing primarily(?) I'm assuming that every detail matters.

And just to throw this out there, I'm not suggesting a well-augmented Grio, Keraunos, Grid etc couldn't produce high numbers, but they will never compete with a properly geared Nirvana SMN.

EDIT:

I actually forgot about this weapon.



Was+1 closes the gap a little bit between Nirvana and non-Nirvana, but if you're going to spend the money on ^ then you might as well make a Nirvana (with a lot of gil left over).

If Smns are on the ball and dont waste to much time realizing thier pets amnesiaed and resummon quick its not a issue. Of course if your spamming volt strike with your thumb up *** wondering why its not going off your gonna cost the run. Even if you get it 2% and dts on can still apogee volt super revita apogee volt it dead. Mind you this is from a 6-8 man perspective.

Yeah, there is a large margin of error on how much dmg you need vs what three good nirvana smns can do and what is needed. So much ao that tab and i think a third isnt needed for me and heli.

You can forget about that weapon again. It doesn't even beat Gridarvor for things like Volt Strike.

It's basically a Spinning Dive staff for people who don't have Nirvana.

As for winning Schah if your avatars get amnesia'd, your chances go down dramatically but it can be done. If you're finishing at 40% though, odds are the amnesia wasn't your only issue unless you stood there for 10 seconds wasting Conduit before realizing what happened.

For what it's worth, our track record doing SMN burn Schah is something like 8 wins for 10 attempts. Failures can always happen. One of those failures was yesterday, and it was because the tank didn't think they needed to do anything and so the Ramuhs pulled hate on the very first BP, Schah cast Paralyga on them, and it hit all the SMN as well. And our WHM was taking a nap or something, so we all remained paralyzed for the entire flippin' fight. When people aren't doing their jobs, of course you're going to lose. That goes with any strat.

You're absolutely right HQ is not worth the gil (could get a Nirvana with that :P) but you're semi-wrong on the closing gap thing.
To have a review

Was is probably the best non-nirvana Flaming Crush option (but not 100% sure on this)
Was is totally the best non-nirvana option for non-FTP-carrying physical BPs (but who cares for those BPs lol)
Was is NOT the best non-nirvana option for FTP-carrying BPs. Gridarvor is, and Grid is already pretty close to Nirvana with AM3 down, it's actually slightly better if you need the additional acc.


Basically I dunno, Was+1 sounds like a total waste. NQ Was could be a nice... placeholder for returning SMNs with a lot of gil?

I've considered this too. It's very possible it would win, but I feel like a Grioavolr with BP Dmg & Pet:MAB should be able to beat it unless accuracy was an issue. If Nirvana didn't trounce both, I'd say it warrants some testing, but as it is someone would have to be really bored.

Odyllic Subterfuge sets enemy's macc to the lowest level, effectively making possible to resist everything (if it's resistable) for avatars and players. I strongly advise to use it for SMN zerg fights, Intervene can sometimes help too.

The only concern i have on using run over pld is if the run can keep hate long enough for the ramuhs to not get rocked early.

edit: oh wow, sforzo is better hate than invincible

Most RUN JAs have good CE generation, unlike older abilities. In a fight that short you could conceivably blow all your cooldowns->revit->blow them all again->spam Flash/Foil/sub BLU spells for whatever time is left. That's over 20k CE from JAs alone with Crusade and a good enmity set, and I'm not sure how much enmity Odyllic Subterfuge generates (edit: quick and dirty testing suggests negligible enmity). You'll get Wild Card too. A decked RUN shouldn't lose hate in this scenario until the Ramuhs start capping enmity.

There are 3 pages of debate if SMN (more specifically Astral Conduit) should get a nerf on the official forum JP side (english side too but no one cares) and this is only the beginning, lot of discussions on 2ch blogs etc since few days. Everyone know what the job is capable to do now... I think we can expect a reaction from the devs soon.

In my experience if you have aftermath up, then yes, with some difficulty you can survive amnesia once. With no aftermath up we have yet to overcome a situation where an avatar has to be resummoned

Edit: I too also agree with everything booger has mentioned

Been reading through this Nirvana debate, and am a bit intrigued, as I am happy with my Gridarvor, and have no intention of getting a Nirvana. But that's more because I literally haven't stepped foot in an Assault yet, and it's seems like so much daunting work ahead that I really wouldn't enjoy it...not because Nirvana isn't very good.

The question at hand isn't is Nirvana better. We all know it is, it's obvious. Given all else the same, a Nirvana SMN using the main Physical BPs is going to do more damage than a SMN using any other weapon. The question is if it's a material enough difference that it will impact the win/loss of whatever fight or strategy it's being used - in this case Schah.

I don't know the answer, but I would be hard pressed to believe that it would. I tend to think Master SMN matching all other gear and just gearing down to Gridarvor will have the same end result, just a few seconds slower. The accuracy will be the same, the top will come down a bit losing the 40 extra BP damage. Someone above said its 5k vs 50k damage which is not the case here at all. More like 44k v 50k or something like that. It's still a lot of damage and with 3 SMN doing it I'd have to think it'd still die.

This isn't specific to SMN though, REMA are mostly good. But at the same time, by the time you Master a job, have appropriate gear and swaps for everything you are doing, the delta in DPS versus adding most REMA is considerably less than the wiggle room you have to complete fights, especially since there aren't a lot of hard timers we are up against. They are the cherry on top, but you can still eat the sundae without them.

AT the same time, I don't think most people in general REMA because it's necessary to win fights. We do it because it's fun to become more powerful. Mentally, we may view them as necessary sometimes because we want to team with more powerful people - but the fact is with perhaps a few excepetions, none of them are ever actually necessary if you are defining necessary as "will lose without it".