~First And Final Line Of Defense V2.0~

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2010-06-21
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~First and Final Line of Defense v2.0~
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 Ragnarok.Martel
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By Ragnarok.Martel 2020-04-24 11:01:05  
Sacro breastplate is really good, and you'll want one anyway for you meva set. So maybe see if you can do some Alexander?

And grats on the founder's. The legs are a critical SIRD piece.
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By zixxer 2020-04-24 23:22:50  
I soloed Sacro on E with Cor, just auto attack and ws until dead, took about 5 min on SB build with buffs. Used about 4 merit dumps until I got drop. I think just about any dd job will be fine on E.

Edit: had th1.
 Carbuncle.Tyleron
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By Carbuncle.Tyleron 2020-05-04 09:59:13  
Sorry know this has been asked before but some of the answers not clear. Could someone suggest top 3-4 Ambuscade capes? If you could only have three what would they be? For main tanking cape is shield block rate good?
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By Taint 2020-05-04 10:15:36  
Carbuncle.Tyleron said: »
Sorry know this has been asked before but some of the answers not clear. Could someone suggest top 3-4 Ambuscade capes? If you could only have three what would they be? For main tanking cape is shield block rate good?


HP,Emn,DT
FC,SIRD
DEX,ACC/ATT,DA,PDT
STR,ACC/ATT,WSdmg,DT
 Bismarck.Balguss
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By Bismarck.Balguss 2020-05-04 12:18:50  
ItemSet 372755



105% SIRD with merits 49% CP I for my healing magic set.
3465 HP in rank 1 unity capped PDT I.

This is what i use for my cures in most main tank situations, does require weapon swap dropping Burt. Manage to keep HP drop to a minimum and high cp.

All my tank sets try to keep HP over 3.3k, am i missing something? As most other sets i look at the golden # seems to be not much higher than 3k.
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 Asura.Gotenn
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By Asura.Gotenn 2020-05-04 13:52:47  
Bismarck.Balguss said: »
ItemSet 372755



105% SIRD with merits 49% CP I for my healing magic set.
3465 HP in rank 1 unity capped PDT I.

This is what i use for my cures in most main tank situations, does require weapon swap dropping Burt. Manage to keep HP drop to a minimum and high cp.

All my tank sets try to keep HP over 3.3k, am i missing something? As most other sets i look at the golden # seems to be not much higher than 3k.

Not sure on how you tank, but I have decided it wasn't worth it for me to drop Burt unless I really really need that cure potency.
Since my Burt is Rank 15, putting up AM3 and spamming atonement, I don't even need to cast flash anymore.
 Carbuncle.Tyleron
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By Carbuncle.Tyleron 2020-05-04 15:53:22  
Taint said: »
Carbuncle.Tyleron said: »
Sorry know this has been asked before but some of the answers not clear. Could someone suggest top 3-4 Ambuscade capes? If you could only have three what would they be? For main tanking cape is shield block rate good?


HP,Emn,DT
FC,SIRD
DEX,ACC/ATT,DA,PDT
STR,ACC/ATT,WSdmg,DT


Considering that it’s pretty easy to cap DT, does shield block % make sense? Or should I just free up another spot?

Just not sure if shield block is even worth gearing for? Does it make Aegis more viable as a main shield or are we still dependent on Ochain.

Took Taints suggestions and am thinking need 5 capes (going to list separately the categories)

1) 60HP, 10enmity, 20evasion/magic evasion, 10 magic evasion, 5 shield block (or if shield block not worth it 10pdt)

2) 60HP, 10 FC, 20evasion/magic evasion, 10 magic evasion, 10 pdt

3) 60HP, 10 cure potency, 20evasion/magic evasion, 10 magic evasion, 10 SIRD

4)20 DEX,20 ACC/ATT,10 DA, 10PDT, 10 Acc

5)20 STR,20 ACC/ATT,10 WSdmg,10DT 10Acc

does that look good? Any tips?
 Asura.Balguss
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By Asura.Balguss 2020-05-04 16:02:59  
I like to swap out shield for FC so the swords HP is really good for that, can use a weapon lock if/when i don;t want the extra FC and things.
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By FaeQueenCory 2020-05-04 19:41:03  
Carbuncle.Tyleron said: »
4)20 DEX,20 ACC/ATT,10 DA, 10PDT, 10 Acc

5)20 STR,20 ACC/ATT,10 WSdmg,10DT 10Acc
These look like WS damage capes for Chant du Cygne and Savage Blade/et al.
If so, no.
Don't waste 10 extra +STAT for a measly 10 acc. (ESPECIALLY on that STR.)

You might not need the cure potency cape, if you have the stuff to hit +50% (though since Majesty, that's not as critical now); and can just use the FC cape instead.
And for both of those, You may want P/DT instead of Meva depending on how much DT is in your sets for those castings. (You should be as close to -50% as possible, if not absolutely capped.)
 Pandemonium.Zeto
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By Pandemonium.Zeto 2020-05-04 20:37:49  
You shouldn't need a cure pot cape or sword swap.
ItemSet 371343

This is capped SIRD and cure pot with a 5+ cure pot roll on the feet. 4+ if you're in the top unity. And you should need to upgrade to 1% SIRD on Nourishing to cap that.
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By DononofSylph 2020-05-04 20:44:45  
Pandemonium.Zeto said: »
You shouldn't need a cure pot cape or sword swap.
ItemSet 371343

This is capped SIRD and cure pot with a 5+ cure pot roll on the feet. 4+ if you're in the top unity. And you should need to upgrade to 1% SIRD on Nourishing to cap that.

2nd ear can be whatever you want to round out your set. Tuisto Earring to balance out your HP, Cryptic or Trux for enmity, Genmei for a bit more PDT.

Isn't capped SIRD 108? This is 101% unless I am missing something.
 Pandemonium.Zeto
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By Pandemonium.Zeto 2020-05-04 20:46:52  
SIRD caps at 100 but because ROUNDING you usually need 102 to cap it. If you have a ton of small pieces you might need to go even higher but 102 usually works. Like DT it's not actually 10% or whatever but ?/256.

It's hard to know the exact fraction of each piece since we can't just get hit with 1k needles like we can with DT testing.

The set I have is 101% without Nourishing and you get up to 5 more from Nourishing augment but you should just need to reach the 1% tier.
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 Bismarck.Balguss
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By Bismarck.Balguss 2020-05-05 02:57:20  
How much HP though? The point of the sword is it allows me to keep hp high while still capping cp. Tanking set has 3.5k hp so I don't want to drop 400-500hp to cure.
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By SimonSes 2020-05-05 05:27:50  
Bismarck.Balguss said: »
How much HP though? The point of the sword is it allows me to keep hp high while still capping cp. Tanking set has 3.5k hp so I don't want to drop 400-500hp to cure.

Show your sets. Its pointless discussion otherwise. Whole question is kinda weird anyway. If someone dont want to swap sword, then swapping sword is not an option. If someone can swap sword, then swapping sword is ok. Its that simple.

If you want to argue that you have tanking set with 3500 and dropping Burtgang is worth to keep 300-400 hp more than you can try, but show your sets to justify this, because you for sure doing some sacrifices for that HP (which generally isnt required for anything and sounds like high HP just to have high HP). Losing TP, potencial AM, 36% physical damage reduction, +23 enmity and Reduced enmity decrease seems way too much to not lose 300-400HP when you are at 3k anyway. Now most other useful sets are also around 3k hp, so you would need to use HP sword for them too, so basically you have burtgang only in idle?
 Odin.Creaucent
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By Odin.Creaucent 2020-05-05 05:47:29  
SimonSes said: »
Bismarck.Balguss said: »
How much HP though? The point of the sword is it allows me to keep hp high while still capping cp. Tanking set has 3.5k hp so I don't want to drop 400-500hp to cure.

Show your sets. Its pointless discussion otherwise. Whole question is kinda weird anyway. If someone dont want to swap sword, then swapping sword is not an option. If someone can swap sword, then swapping sword is ok. Its that simple.

If you want to argue that you have tanking set with 3500 and dropping Burtgang is worth to keep 300-400 hp more than you can try, but show your sets to justify this, because you for sure doing some sacrifices for that HP (which generally isnt required for anything and sounds like high HP just to have high HP). Losing TP, potencial AM, 36% physical damage reduction, +23 enmity and Reduced enmity decrease seems way too much to not lose 300-400HP when you are at 3k anyway. Now most other useful sets are also around 3k hp, so you would need to use HP sword for them too, so basically you have burtgang only in idle?

They have shown it on the 5th post on this page.
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 Bismarck.Balguss
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By Bismarck.Balguss 2020-05-05 05:52:34  
ItemSet 372829


This is the set I tank in. I've tried to build all other sets to keep hp as close as possible so there's no big drops. I'm just interested to know if 3k hp is a more sensible number while keeping Burtgang or though sacrafice of the Pdt ii and tp you can maintain high hp for other sets.
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By SimonSes 2020-05-05 06:30:43  
Odin.Creaucent said: »
They have shown it on the 5th post on this page.

I was talking about his idle/tanking set, not cure sets that he posted :) I wanted to see that set to understand why he want to drop Burtgang for HP sword in almost every set to not lose HP below his Burtgang idle/tanking set.

Bismarck.Balguss said: »
ItemSet 372829


This is the set I tank in. I've tried to build all other sets to keep hp as close as possible so there's no big drops. I'm just interested to know if 3k hp is a more sensible number while keeping Burtgang or though sacrafice of the Pdt ii and tp you can maintain high hp for other sets.

Your tanking set is only 22% haste I think. You dont get benefits of Ambu cape too. No block, enmity and MEVA on Moonlight cape.

Idk personally I think having 3.3-3.5k hp in all sets by sacrificing Burtgang in almost every precast and midcast set is just way too much. It would be good option if you are not planning to have Burtgang at all.
 Bismarck.Balguss
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By Bismarck.Balguss 2020-05-05 07:15:08  
First of all any feedback on my sets and style are much appreciated, don't want/mean anything to come across as preachy or rude. I'm asking here because looking at the current sets people are using and comparing to mine I feel I be might be missing something or perhaps just a difference of playstyle


Second I guess I'll address what will probably be the main issues with my sets and try to give my reasons as to why I've tried what I have.

22% haste in this set I'm going to say is a non issue as it only determines the speed I swing, and as I change weapons tp is not a focus.

I go for the higher hp and -enmity loss gear as max hp is a factor in enmity decay I believe.

Burtgang is in most other midcast sets, flash/voke/blue magic etc. Its only dropped for cures, phalanx and precast for fc which allows me to hit 71% fc.

As far as the JSE Cape, the loss of Meva and shield block rate is mot substantial enough for me, its not an Meva or shield block set. I think having 100 enmity+ is the cap for decay so I hit that with crusade.

I base the set around higher hp having an effect on enmity decay since Pld can hit the CE/VE cap pretty easily, this to me seems like it's ticking all the boxes and although atonement spam can be an option I can always use a weapon lock if I go down that road. I just think you'd have more trouble from debuffs if you're trying to keep building tp to spam a ws.
 Bismarck.Firedemon
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By Bismarck.Firedemon 2020-05-05 08:10:54  
I think swapping swords like that is taking 2 steps back, but that's just me. I mean, you have a Burtgang, get AM3, toss together a decent DD/hybrid set and Savage Blade that ***up.

But that's just me.
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 Odin.Creaucent
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By Odin.Creaucent 2020-05-05 09:20:02  
On the topic of swords i havent yet got my Burtgang and I want peoples thoughts on swords? I have the following.

Malignance.
Brilliance - dmg+13, shield skill+9, divine+14 and enmity+6.
Nixxar.
Naegling.

Obviously Naegling is the best for actual damage though I was looking at tanking with Malignance though with NMs cutting status resistance in half would the enmity from Brilliance be a better choice?
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By SimonSes 2020-05-05 10:00:11  
Bismarck.Balguss said: »
Burtgang is in most other midcast sets, flash/voke/blue magic etc. Its only dropped for cures, phalanx and precast for fc which allows me to hit 71% fc.

What you use to keep HP high on top of usual sets then? Moonlight Cape? So you lose 10 enmity on those spells? I guess it might be ok, if you are ok with doing almost no damage. I dont think that 300-400 HP advantage will be more effective way of not losing enmity vs poking enemy with AM3 tho or spaming blu spells with 10 more enmity.

Lastly my approach to PLD is a little different than standard. Im in the process of building set that I posted several pages ago with 700+ meva and I plan to use that as main tanking set.
 Bismarck.Balguss
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By Bismarck.Balguss 2020-05-05 11:05:12  
Odin.Creaucent said: »
On the topic of swords i havent yet got my Burtgang and I want peoples thoughts on swords? I have the following.

Malignance.
Brilliance - dmg+13, shield skill+9, divine+14 and enmity+6.
Nixxar.
Naegling.

Obviously Naegling is the best for actual damage though I was looking at tanking with Malignance though with NMs cutting status resistance in half would the enmity from Brilliance be a better choice?

I'd go with Malignance for the stats/mdef bonus/refresh unless you're struggling with enmity in you're enmity+sets.

I'll post my fc set when I'm back at my pc and take a look at meva set never considered full timing one so might be an interesting approach.
 Asura.Sirris
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By Asura.Sirris 2020-05-05 11:25:09  
Odin.Creaucent said: »
On the topic of swords i havent yet got my Burtgang and I want peoples thoughts on swords? I have the following.

Malignance.
Brilliance - dmg+13, shield skill+9, divine+14 and enmity+6.
Nixxar.
Naegling.

Obviously Naegling is the best for actual damage though I was looking at tanking with Malignance though with NMs cutting status resistance in half would the enmity from Brilliance be a better choice?

I think Brilliance is arguably the best non-Burtgang tanking sword. Deacon Sword is another pre-mythic option to consider. Selection of paladin swords for tanking outside of Burt is kinda lacking honestly...
 Bismarck.Balguss
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By Bismarck.Balguss 2020-05-05 11:45:45  
ItemSet 372838

3351 HP with 71% fast cast. Dropping 167 HP from the tank set.
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By SimonSes 2020-05-05 12:02:41  
Asura.Sirris said: »
I think Brilliance is arguably the best non-Burtgang tanking sword. Deacon Sword is another pre-mythic option to consider. Selection of paladin swords for tanking outside of Burt is kinda lacking honestly...

Idk, Su5 looks quite good if you dont plan to make Burtgang.

380HP
70MP
+4 refresh
Cure Potency +25%
+ ~100DEF

Not bad imo.
 Asura.Puppeteer
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By Asura.Puppeteer 2020-05-05 13:02:04  
Can someone give me an example of how items like burtgang creed collar and empy legs reduces emnity loss while taking damage works?
Is there any values for these I understand that it does the same as the new bard song just unsure what values look like
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By SimonSes 2020-05-05 13:33:14  
Asura.Puppeteer said: »
Can someone give me an example of how items like burtgang creed collar and empy legs reduces emnity loss while taking damage works?
Is there any values for these I understand that it does the same as the new bard song just unsure what values look like

Check Martel's post (somewhere in last few pages) talking about JP post in which they were trying to test that.
 Pandemonium.Zeto
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By Pandemonium.Zeto 2020-05-05 13:39:24  
This post to be specific::

Ragnarok.Martel said: »
I had a much more involved post typed up for this, but I hit F5 like an idiot and it is gone. I just can't do that post again, so this is the cliffnotes version.

Disclaimer: I can't read, JP, google translate, etc,etc. Someone, please, translate this stuff.

A JP blog post by Bun of the Two Man Cell blog tested the effects of enmity+ gear on CE loss. As well as how this interacts with CE loss gear like Burtgang.

2 enmity = CE loss -1%, up to a cap of -50% CE loss at +100 enmity.

I have done a few tests that support this. So I think I'm interpreting the post correctly.

The Enmity+ CE loss- is in a different multiplicative term with the reduction from equipment with the "Reduces enmity loss when taking damage" effect.

They also had these values listed for various gear with this effect. I was already aware of these values, but looking around it doesn't seem like they are well documented so I will include them here.

Burtgang(99): 20%
Creed Collar: 5%
Chevalier's Cuisses + 1: 12%
Erilaz Surcoat + 1: 12%

Chevalier's and Erilaz have the value on the gear description, but I included them anyway.

So, with the enmity+ CE reduction and the gear reduction, PLD can reach 68.5% CE loss reduction. 50% from enmity+100 and 37% from gear. so 0.5*0.63=0.685, or 68.5%. RUN is at 56% reduction.

There's also a post about Foe Sirvente but the google translation seems worse than usual and it's hard to make much out.

I'm fairly certain it says that Foe Sirvente is the same term as "reduce enmity loss" gear. I'm less certain about this next part, but I think it's also saying that "reduces enmity loss" gear's effect caps at 50%, making the max reduction 75% (50% from enmity+ and 50% from reduces loss gear.)

I've not done any testing to verify the Foe Sirvente info, and as I said the google translate was.. bad. So take it with a grain of salt.
 Ragnarok.Martel
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By Ragnarok.Martel 2020-05-05 22:48:15  
So, I did some Dynamis D on PLD tonight, and I took some interesting Mijin Gakure dmg. Oh, and I lived.

This was from the NIN add on the boss. Assuming 4k base dmg, this could not have resisted, as a half resist would have put it at ~2k. So I didn't resist, but took waaay less than full dmg.

But I had Rampart up. So I'm thinking that this could indicate that the new Rampart effect works on dynamis D NM's Mijin.

4k*.75= 3000
3k-59(Phalanx)=2941
2941-2419(actual dmg taken)=522. This 522 should be how much cure skin I had left from the cure V just before Mijiin. Which is well within range of how much cureskin my alt's cure V could give.

So I think the only way I could have got this amount of damage, would be if Rampart was taking effect. Which is cool.
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 Ragnarok.Lowen
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By Ragnarok.Lowen 2020-05-15 10:45:06  
What Dark Matter augments are people typically looking for on their Valorous/Odyssean pieces? I figure Odyssean is probably used for Savage Blade and Valorous for CDC?
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