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hopefully another terrible translation job by the translation team, but rank 1, kupon E-90W gives
One Dense Cluster,
60 clumps of Riftdross,
300 Riftborn Boulders.

for all the weapons including the ones that require riftcinder.

DNC is an exceptionally strong DD from the 1h camp. No, it's not one of the top dog 2h DDs, but it's still great. Their strongest asset is skillchaining and TP management, but they're very powerful in zergs, too. Pyrrhic Kleos is ridiculously strong and gets elevated to absurd levels with a Terpsichore, and they always have access to Rudra spamming with Aeonic. Very strong job that's heavily undervalued by many.

I originally felt happy for the few Quixotic forever-SMN people who were finally getting a seat at the table and a bit of limelight.

Now I can't help but feel sorry for them -- the way the unwashed masses descended on that job has been pretty disgusting. If a nerf results, then it's going to really suck for anybody who cared about the job before it could be exploited. :(

You just described BST when the 7-yalm restriction was introduced.

it's almost like they could try to make the job useful

@Maxiel

Your assessments are a bit off base:

THF gets plenty of use against high-tier mobs; its an ideal DD against Erinys and Teles, its also highly usable on Oncyphora provided you're careful not to create skillchains. Its hate manipulation abilities are very useful for avoiding gimmicks like Kin's Target in Omen.

COR's a very strong DD, on top of its numerous buffs and ja reset abilities. Mix in a couple of good RNG and things like Schah get very tame. On top of that its also a very usable melee DD for stuff like Omen and Ambuscade.

BST is still ok for some stuff, but on the whole has had its day due to SE's reluctance to give the job anything to significantly boost pet DPS (which was never all that to be honest, revit abuse flattered it) since the "nerf". The range restrictions make it frustrating and un-fun to play these days, and I imagine a lot of SMN are disgruntled former BSTs sick of their pet acting like a ball-and-chain.

I might be crazy, but I think SMN is completely fine outside of AC. No, it's not a stellar DD, but it fills the niche of hybrid buffer/debuffer/DD very well. Hastega 2, TP Bonus, crit or DA aura, attack buffs, enmity management, heals with status removals, all combined with extremely powerful DD options allow SMN to fill a role quite well.

I think some QoL fixes should be in order, namely Favor not resetting upon summoning a new avatar so that you could rapidcast buffs for the party, but I don't feel the job needs much to remain a viable option. The only imbalance comes from AC abuse.

Please don't give us that. I already covered the BST nerf in the last page.

I really loved my BST. It was my 3rd or 4th 75 job back in the day. I was used to meleeing with my pet until the late adoulin days when people started to go all in on pet damage over Master+pet hybrid damage. I was okay with it at first until it became the default set up for pugs and no one wanted to play anything else anymore.

The nerf actually made me happy. It was cheesy as *** to have pets be tanky, not rely on a WHM cures and not care about any ailments besides amnesia. You had set ups of BST BST BST BST COR GEO, so it was sad not to see any other strategy besides BLM & SCH burns. Overall BST has done a good job adjusting to their nerf. Just bring actual support and some real beef and not just rely on 2 buttons and 3 jobs.

This is where the SMN debate stems from. It's bad game design to have content boil down to something mindless. However there is now the added issue where SE no longer wants to think hard about producing any more content while still trying to prevent unsubscribers. So that's where the stalemate arises in this debate.

Gil buyers, merc groups and "REMA achievement" oriented people are probably the overwhelming majority of their playerbase. The dedicated people who want to do things the "right way" are still playing because they like the game that much and no content is in-achievable for them anyway. To SE, everybody wins and the money gets raked in.

Really its been said quite a few times, bring other avatars up to par, adjust favor so swapping isnt a detriment or atleast not as large as one, and improve its support functions. Smn has loads of decent buffs either through wards or favors ontop of doing decent bp dmg. SE should just go all in to making smn the support pet job.

DNC is one of the most viable jobs to be used in end-game if you want to bring any Top 1H jobs, its versatility is quite staggering and the insane aspect of its skill chain propriety makes it one of the best to go to combinations if you have a well-coordinated group.
If you care about subtle blow [many people don't] you will find DNC able to run over cap with Omen TP earring.

The amount of times that a DNC actually managed to save a HELM (Oh Sh*&# moment) are endless!

They absolutely shine on Erynis, can cap all steps while waiting for timers to ws and even sub THF for extra (critical Rudras) aside from Climactic/Building)

Terp is one of the most powerful Mythics out there and a true game changer for any DNC in almost any situation [you can join many arguments recently discussing the weird state Mythics are in right now due to the nature of Gear updates favoring multi-hits and over-shadowing Mythic AM] Yet you still find this weapon worthy of building.

Yeah I was a bit off on the dynamics of THF, but that supports my response of defending job viability.

COR I already implied. It can do way more damage than GEO and BRD, but its not necessary enough to warrant its own mention.

BST indeed takes true dedication to leap over its hurdles and all the other jobs have access to better gear now, so the reasons to use that strategy is not as encouraging as before. Hopefully all it needs is Pet DMG gear from upcoming Relic+3 to bump it back a bit. It's viability still exists though. I still think its the best job to catch up returning vets as the other solo jobs have higher gear requirements. I'd much prefer the way they are now than having 80% of any server default to BSTx4 GEO COR again.

We need more balancing - I for one would love for SE to dedicate two months worth of updates to spice up job viability of the jobs that aren't in the spot light and to assure they are done right

Not sure how you play DNC or if that Quote from someone else but you can tell from it how undervalued this job is due to lack of understanding like Oraen said.

I play it well... ty.

I for one really would enjoy a huge wave of job adjustments

I'd rather have new content designed to provide a challenge with the current meta in mind.

NIN honestly isn't bad as just a straight up melee DD, with the (as always) defensive benefit of shadows/migawari, as highlighted in stuff like October Intense Ambuscade (Qutrub). While raw WS damage isn't as high as other jobs, it does play exceptionally well with pretty much every DD job with strong light (Shun) and darkness (Ten, Hi) SC options. And of course, works especially well in lowman subtle blow DD scenarios (much like MNK, which actually pairs pretty well with NINs in such scenarios), including Yurin for additional inhibit TP on the mob beyond the SB cap.

To add to your enfeebling comments, RDM is a pretty great addition to any ranged strategy to Flurry II those RNG and CORs (even if you can cap delay without Flurry II, more magical snapshot = more room for rapid shot gear). We do a lot of Omen with ranged DD, and I pretty much always bring my RDM mule for Flurry II and also sticking all the helpful enfeebles.

Aside from minor nitpicks about specific job comments (including stuff like Inx's clarifications above), overall I agree with your premise that the game is in a pretty good spot in terms of almost all of the jobs having some reasonable use.

Out of curiosity, in what scenario would you choose a MNK over a second NIN? There are a lot of benefits to two NINs, when NINs are favorable.

Anytime that Utsusemi isn't necessary, I feel MNK's Subtle Blow cannot be understated. NIN can only get 50 Subtle Blow as they have no source of Subtle Blow II. Yurin is resisted on almost everything so it's not that great. MNK can get 75 Subtle Blow and 35% Penance. That means you're giving the mob 67.5% less TP on MNK than NIN.

That doesn't answer the question, though, and raises a new question: Under what circumstance would you ever use a NIN when Utsusemi isn't necessary? If you aren't using a NIN at all, it isn't a scenario in which you'd pair it with a MNK...

Zart specifically was shouting to do Ambuscade with a Nin and Mnk thinking the tp feed would be reduced enough to matter.

MNK is probably the best melee job for Onychophora. It's also very good for Omen. Are you somehow limited to only using the optimal job in any situation? If you see things that way you should using nothing but SMN.

So your ok with content that can be steamrolled via day one with smns?

He meant, leave what exists alone and make new things unconduitable.

A MNK can help the whole party with the added utility of Mantra, and the whole alliance with the significant additional TP inhibition available through Penance/Chi Blast (even a single MNK = 25% inhibit TP for 1:40 of every 3:00). I'd say that's worth at least one slot in a mixed NIN MNK DD group for a low TP feed/subtle blow setup.

And like Snaps said, we aren't limited to only using the IDEAL job for every situation. Like, I have a couple LS friends with pretty well geared MNKs and no NIN (or vice versa, a NIN generally fits in pretty well in the same situations where people might reasonably use a MNK). Even if you might reasonably argue for one over the other, that's assuming you always have both options available for the slot you're trying to fill.

It is nice for every job to have a niche. I was hoping to learn of some for MNK from another's perspective. Your responses still leave MNK in the pile of "If anything else could work, MNK would work too." I'm not seeing any glowing, specific instances here to really carve out a place for MNK.

For example, Onychophora can be chopped (see what I did there?) up any number of ways, as long as the DDs don't skill chain. We like to use Last Stand without Aeonic Aftermath, so we can do the worm and Vini in a set without job changes. MNK can work, and that's all well and good, but it isn't a scenario I'd recommend going out of one's way to find one.

Omen... Anything can work. Which, again, is great, but not for what I was looking.

And then running with a MNK at times when the ideal isn't available, or if said person only has MNK... All fine and good, but I was hoping for more, is all.

Thanks, though.

So MNK is exactly the same as WAR, WHM, BLM, RDM, THF, PLD, DRK, BST, BRD, RNG, SAM, NIN, DRG, BLU, COR, PUP, DNC, SCH, RUN.
Got it.

It might help, but another NIN's additional shadows would make the NM's TP moves less threatening, which is likely an even bigger benefit, since hate gets shared and the MNK would be in danger of dropping during the endeath phase. Also, if using Ambuscade as an example, Mantra is actually hurtful here (you want the melee to have less HP so the NM can drain back less HP).

Not that I would discourage folks from bringing MNKs to this month's Ambuscade. It can all work. Who is behind the toon matters more than which DD/NIN you bring to the party.

That isn't remotely what I said.
Try, in scenarios where you can use WAR, WHM, BLM, RDM, THF, PLD, DRK, BST, BRD, RNG, SAM, NIN, DRG, BLU, COR, PUP, DNC, SCH, or RUN interchangeably as a DD, then MNK will also suffice.

You just re-said exactly what you said before. It's exactly the same as every job in the game other than SMN for conduit zerg and maybe GEO.
Thats why I quoted your previous comment.