Delve Low Man Strategies Compiled

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2010-06-21
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Delve Low Man Strategies Compiled
 Asura.Loire
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By Asura.Loire 2015-03-11 11:10:55  
Siren.Sieha said: »
There are people who just flat out make fun of someone trying to compile info like this, while others are simply trying to help. It also depends heavily on the person receiving it. Even if you are nice about it they can still table flip and rage quit. Rule of thumb, if you are on the internet, you better have thick skin.
All that and posting on BG, you really need to be wearing your big girl panties. Scrutiny is going to be a the norm and something as beginner friendly as this is going to be heavily criticized if not near perfect when posted.
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2015-03-11 11:37:52  
I applaud these efforts to help the "community", particularly the newer members. So often I see shouts for people buying delve items, when the common setup is really easily beatable with even PUGs.

You have the approval of a Galka.
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 Siren.Sieha
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By Siren.Sieha 2015-03-11 11:57:43  
Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
I applaud these efforts to help the "community", particularly the newer members. So often I see shouts for people buying delve items, when the common setup is really easily beatable with even PUGs.

You have the approval of a Galka.

shhhh almost no one does this on siren. dont tell them they can win with pugs or I will lose business. My current favorite is people who pay to leech plasm. That might actually give me away but its a great way to squeeze what gil new people have out of them. (maybe a little evil too)
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By Lakshmi.Neboh 2015-03-11 12:01:51  
Welcome to the ffxiah.com forums, where your opinion is reviewed and heavily scrutinized. Everyone wants to put in their two cents and say this is better than that which is fine because we all learn from what others are doing and have done. What was the norm in the past is not necessarily the same now. There will always be improved strategies with lesser effort.

I too, applaud your efforts in trying to help out the community. People will also criticize what is said here. But that's always how its been. Carry on...
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By dustinfoley 2015-03-11 12:57:25  
Ragnarok.Ejiin said: »
You can call me a *** for saying it was riddled with errors all you want after this point, but the thing was an undeniable mess. He started acting like a douche when everyone had been trying to help; It became clear he wasn't posting to help anyone and was just trying show off how leet, amazing he thinks he is.


Okay, then i will call you a douche. (with your permission of course)

Someone who has never done most of these events poured through forum posts, and 2-3 different wikis to compile what info they could, and people exploded on him for it.

Yes there were errors, but if its the same errors posted in the forums/wikis its not really his fault now is it?

Having read both his post and the other posts, its clear he was trying to compile multiple forms of information when people started exploding over 'zomg lol i cant believe you would do it that way /failunicorn'

I mean jez, he even says 'if you dont like me strategy, post yours instead of just saying mine isn't the best'.

To me that says he was willing to add other peoples strategies and people were getting all butt hurt cause it wasn't the zomg super leet secret easy win strat that no one wants to post.

If people on the bg forums want to treat people lick ***, thats fine, its a private forum do as they please. But following someone from there to here to continue the trolling when they left cause they were being treated like ***... that just shows a new level of class.
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By Chimerawizard 2015-03-11 13:04:13  
Wickednessss said: »
Faded Craklaw: Not necessary to drop Formless Strikes. Weaponskills will always be considered physical dmg, even with FS up. And, to clarify, you don't ws @80%. You ws after it uses Riptide Eupnea for maximum dmg. In the case of mess ups(FS Drops due to missed stuns), DD should turn while mage does magic dmg until Riptide.
Another way is to have the BLM/RDM/SCH/GEO just solo nuke it the first 20% while the rest of the group kills the other NMs. When it gets close, everyone save TP at the end of the 2nd NM to destroy cracklaw.
Also I wouldn't wait for riptide, just 20% then keep dmg on enough to keep hate til DDs are ready.
This helps even if there's a monk since formless strikes won't be on cooldown when you start on shark.

Speaking of Tojil, why is he always the one being done anyway? way more reward for spamming other zones. Shark = slightly better gil, Bee = better gil, 2.0 = more gil and plasm.

Lakshmi.Neboh said: »
Welcome to the ffxiah.com forums, where your opinion is reviewed and heavily scrutinized. Everyone wants to put in their two cents and say this is better than that which is fine because we all learn from what others are doing and have done. What was the norm in the past is not necessarily the same now. There will always be improved strategies with lesser effort.

I too, applaud your efforts in trying to help out the community. People will also criticize what is said here. But that's always how its been. Carry on...
2nd that.
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By dustinfoley 2015-03-11 13:24:53  
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Laevvid: Gimmick: Has damage taken reduction except during Leafstorm, which can be forced by using Water spells. The damage the Water spell does that triggers Leafstorm is the cap it can receive for damage during Leafstorm. Spam Water IV and have melee trash it.


Just to clarify.

Water wont heal him at all unless you hurt him first, so its usually best to do Fire 1 -> Water 4 to kick things off.
 Ragnarok.Ejiin
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By Ragnarok.Ejiin 2015-03-11 13:47:35  
dustinfoley said: »
Okay, then i will call you a douche. (with your permission of course)

First off, let's make it clear that the person who posted this guide is not the same person who posted it on BG. Likard is actually open to good ideas to help improve the guide and make it better. If the OP on BG had been just as open to making it better, no one would have said anything to him except for helpful information.

Though, he continues to white knight the OP on BG for some weird reason and apparently thinks constructive criticism and honesty equals bullying. Him and others continue to think that the OP did nothing wrong to warrant any sort of criticism while ignoring the fact no one said anything negative until AFTER he was a *** to people trying to help him.


dustinfoley said: »
Someone who has never done most of these events poured through forum posts, and 2-3 different wikis to compile what info they could, and people exploded on him for it.

Not one person "exploded on him" for posting the guide. I gave him mild criticism for posting something so subpar on BG and not expecting any sort of suggestions to improve it.

dustinfoley said: »
To me that says he was willing to add other peoples strategies and people were getting all butt hurt cause it wasn't the zomg super leet secret easy win strat that no one wants to post.

The idea was good. I'm all for a guide to help new/returning players with Delve. It was him lashing out against any sort of criticism/suggestions to help improve the guide that was insulting.

Not one person was harsh with him after he initially posted the guide. In fact, everyone was adding useful suggestions that would make it easier, provide more options to new/returning players.

This offended him and he pretty much told people to shut up, leave his strategy alone and post their own if they don't like his. Additionally, he became so upset that people were trying to improve his guide that he had a meltdown and deleted the entire thing. It was clear his guide was never meant to be improved on, because he's so leet, awesome:

Quote:
Wow. My strategy has been deleted for how long now. Yet people still havnt posted their own in this Delve Strategies thread. Shocking. Or maybe you're just scared you'll get trolled too because your strategy isn't like everyone else's?

Quote:
Or maybe you can't read? delve DISCUSSING in one, Delve STRATEGIES in this one. 2 different things. Is it still that hard for you to comprehend? I'll break it down even more for you... In the discussion thread you *** about what works and what don't. In the Strategy thread you post about what strategy you used to win each zone. I could've posted how I won each of the original delve zones going 6x Blu if I wanted to. Imagine the rage then.
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By Caitsith.Mahayaya 2015-03-11 14:10:26  
I do Tojil because it is the safest for sure. Mata is the only gimmick, and it is a joke to deal with. Tojil itself can be stunned and silenced to near uselessness.

Contrast that with Foret where you have Cracklaw and Uragnite being annoying. Topping it off with a boss that benefits greatly from a good WHM. Puncture destroys your defense and magic defense, and even with a good DT set on a Guillotine afterwards can oneshot. And that's not mentioning Mayhem.

The Bee is annoying too and again relies on a WHM to know what is happening. The minibosses are the worst part of this though. Moth and Gnat are annoying as hell. So is the gimmick on the butterfly. Stun area on scorp too... None of these are enjoyable fights even when they go well.
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By Siren.Sieha 2015-03-11 14:17:13  
Ragnarok.Ejiin said: »
nerd rage

glad to see BG is the same way it was went I left it. Looks like standard people there doing their normal thing. nothing to get excited about.
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By Asura.Failaras 2015-03-11 14:17:50  
Caitsith.Mahayaya said: »
I do Tojil because it is the safest for sure. Mata is the only gimmick, and it is a joke to deal with. Tojil itself can be stunned and silenced to near uselessness.

Contrast that with Foret where you have Cracklaw and Uragnite being annoying. Topping it off with a boss that benefits greatly from a good WHM. Puncture destroys your defense and magic defense, and even with a good PDT set on a Guillotine afterwards can oneshot. And that's not mentioning Mayhem.

The Bee is annoying too and again relies on a WHM to know what is happening. The minibosses are the worst part of this though. Moth and Gnat are annoying as hell. So is the gimmick on the butterfly. Stun area on scorp too... None of these are enjoyable fights even when they go well.
This is always interesting to me, I find Tojil to be the hardest of the three original Delve bosses. You really don't need to stun Shark/Bee anymore with current gear and their gimmicks are fairly simple (Use Sulpor, Use piercing). I find it to be extremely hard to die to Bee/Shark unless multiple people seriously mess up. On the other hand Tojil is 100% about stun, all you need is for the stunner to mess up to make the run go to ***. You can live through a Lahar, though its harder now since people aren't using Monk anymore and the 2nd 1h was great for if a Lahar got through, but compared to any other Delve 1 boss it's the scariest.

Given that you can ignore most of the mechanics on basically everything in Foret I find this zone to be by far the easiest. As people have said Craklaw can be cheesed, uragnite you just debuff normally (don't even need impact), Jagil you don't need to really care about magic damage anymore, Nerrivik you just stand in front, Krab you just kill. The only potentially scary thing about Foret is if you don't get topped off before a Guillotine.

Bee has harder NMs before the boss but the zone became way easier when Thf got buffed, Rudras really just makes everything there not matter.
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 Caitsith.Mahayaya
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By Caitsith.Mahayaya 2015-03-11 14:33:51  
It's also all the debuffs. The ice spikes of foret are freaking annoying. And post verve spikes with puncture magic defense down hurt like *** hell on capped attack speed one handers. Non-issue if you run all the time with Yagrush whm or support who are good at removing rebuffs.

Guess it depends on who you can frequently bring and on what jobs. If I knew the shout would result in a good whm or brd who'd help -na, I'd do those more often. I know good stunners who frequent delve though so that's less of a gamble.
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By likard 2015-03-11 14:39:42  
While I won't say anyone exploded on the original guide writer before he deleted his post, I disagree with Ejin that "Everyone was civil" in their criticism. Most did offer genuine civil contributions initially, but some said things like 'really outdated' called him "attention seeking", "riddled with errors" "not to post" if he doesn't have thick skin.

I do agree with Ejin that he should have just adjust the guide to accommodate the suggestions.
As for riddled with errors, it had gimmicks for bosses that none of the wikis had. Things I had never seen before. He had strategies for ever boss. Some of the strategies were very safe strategies, but none of the would fail if attempted. Could he have improved it? Sure. But 'not the current/common way' does not mean 'outright wrong'. Sadly, my memory isn't great so I don't remember the strategies for someone of the bosses and no one that criticized him posted theirs after he deleted it so we still have holes in our guide.

That being said, I feel like all forum posters could benefit by obeying the 10 rules to rational debate.
Debate

I also disagree that someone "should have to get thicker skin/wear big girl panties" if they want to post on the internet. That is victim shamming. It's like telling a woman it is her fault she got raped because she 'was asking for it' with how she dressed. In theory, one should not have to have thick skin because others shouldn't be total d-bags. That being said, I completely expect total d-baggery on forums because it's just the realistic result. Thick skin helps a ton. But victim shamming is the same as admitting 'hey, we're all monsters here and cannot control ourselves.'

Let's drop the drama, and just focus on some of these bosses that we don't fully understand yet. Lot's of people have claimed to know more, let's share the intel!
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 Asura.Failaras
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By Asura.Failaras 2015-03-11 14:47:36  
Quote:
It's also all the debuffs. The ice spikes of foret are freaking annoying. And post verve spikes with puncture magic defense down hurt like *** hell on capped attack speed one handers. Non-issue if you run all the time with Yagrush whm or support who are good at removing rebuffs.

Guess it depends on who you can frequently bring and on what jobs. If I knew the shout would result in a good whm or brd who'd help -na, I'd do those more often. I know good stunners who frequent delve though so that's less of a gamble.
It does really depend on who you can depend on. Personally I find it much harder to find someone that is good at stunning than to find a combined Whm+Brd+Geo that can top you off before guillotine. The ice spikes are annoying of course, but if you can't depend on getting paralyna you can really just wait till you Sulpor them off and then pop a remedy, at least that is what I do.

It's also worth noting that the game has changed in the year+ that Delve 1 has been out. Currently Blu, Thf, and Dnc are really going to output more DPS in general than Mnk or Sam. What this means is that while at one time Tojil, which favors Mnk, made a lot more sense to do because all the good people had well geared Mnks. However now you'll find that people tend to have very well geared Thfs which favors Ceizak, or Blus which favors Foret. At one time when Sam was the only DD in the game it even made sense to do Ceizak before the Rudra buff because of how common finding a Sam was, even one with a bow set. Given that the FFXI community changes pretty slowly people still tend to favor Morimar and shout for Mnks with it even though Mnk DPS output is pretty bad currently.
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By Caitsith.Mahayaya 2015-03-11 15:02:20  
Probably one of the best setups I made for Morimar was RDM, GEO, WHM, COR, BRD, THF. I usually change out the COR or GEO for another THF if picking up peoples I'm not completely familiar with.
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 Asura.Failaras
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By Asura.Failaras 2015-03-11 15:14:12  
I would probably do the same, the benefits of Mnk in that zone likely don't outweigh the losses anymore. If you could guarantee a pug Blu would be good that job would probably be the best because of Req.
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By Asura.Cobbs 2015-03-11 15:20:06  
Siren.Sieha said: »
Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
I applaud these efforts to help the "community", particularly the newer members. So often I see shouts for people buying delve items, when the common setup is really easily beatable with even PUGs.

You have the approval of a Galka.

shhhh almost no one does this on siren. dont tell them they can win with pugs or I will lose business. My current favorite is people who pay to leech plasm. That might actually give me away but its a great way to squeeze what gil new people have out of them. (maybe a little evil too)

Why insult the people who buy from you? Do you look down them for utilizing your services?
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By Ragnarok.Ejiin 2015-03-11 15:22:13  
Siren.Sieha said: »
Ragnarok.Ejiin said: »
nerd rage

glad to see BG is the same way it was went I left it. Looks like standard people there doing their normal thing. nothing to get excited about.

Now I'm a nerd and below standard because I don't agree with you? That's called cyberbullying, buddy, and pretty much the same as rape.
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By Sylph.Jeanpaul 2015-03-11 15:48:12  
A few notes on Marjami Ravine:

1) Broxa will only reflect black magic nukes, and whatever you use will come back as AoE. Barspell the element you are using.
2) Not that you need to include this in the main guide, but the Plaguevein Bats have a not fully understood mechanic that causes them to proc !! and lose a bat trio from their swarm. I can only recall it once proc'ing to a Gravitation skillchain. Since this NM is the easiest in the zone (and perhaps all of Delve 2), I wouldn't worry too much about it. You could use Barwatera to help resist his attack down effect, I suppose.
3) Hakawai does have frequent access to Chainspell and will only use wind spells (mostly nukes but also Silencega), furthering a need for silencing him, or barring that some good magic/wind resistance. Baraera/Barsilence recommended.
4) The Apkallu has undispellable "Deluge Spikes", which grow in potency as his HP drops (dealing well over 100 damage), as well adding poison. Below 25%, gains access to Whiteout, which adds Nightmare sleep and Zombie curse (though a cure will still wake you up). Using attack down effects will make his regular swings much more manageable. Barwatera/Barpoison helps a lot.
5) Current theory for Podarge is that her most devastating WSs are based on the forms of damage done to her between uses. Her WS preference also changes below 50%, though I can't remember the details. There is a dude on BG regularly testing to determine the true nature of these moves though. Sorry I can't provide more detailed information. Baraero.
B) Super Hurkan's aura, which gives it 50% physical damage resistance, increased MAB, extra moves, and "Avoidance Down" aura (preventing parrying/guarding/shield blocking), can only be removed from magic bursting earth-elemental damage. High-tier Stones or Tellus Lunge can dish out enough damage to break that aura. Supposedly resists blunt damage also, but I've never brought a MNK with me to see. RNG + PLD or RUN is a popular method to safely dish out damage. GEO's Vex/Attunement combo and /RUN can make this fight safer for other jobs as well. His strongest move, Static Prison, is rather powerful and has a range of 20, but he can only use it with aura up or below 25%. All of his attacks except one of his regular swings are considered Thunder damage; Shadow Ring/Engulfer Cape can prove very handy. Barthunder.
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By Ragnarok.Ejiin 2015-03-11 16:15:38  
Sylph.Jeanpaul said: »
2) Not that you need to include this in the main guide, but the Plaguevein Bats have a not fully understood mechanic that causes them to proc !! and lose a bat trio from their swarm. I can only recall it once proc'ing to a Gravitation skillchain. Since this NM is the easiest in the zone (and perhaps all of Delve 2), I wouldn't worry too much about it. You could use Barwatera to help resist his attack down effect, I suppose.
3) Hakawai does have frequent access to Chainspell and will only use wind spells (mostly nukes but also Silencega), furthering a need for silencing him, or barring that some good magic/wind resistance. Baraera/Barsilence recommended.

Plaguevein Bats are proc'd by breaking a threshold of magic damage. From what I've noticed, the threshold seems to be around 8-10K damage. The amount of bats dictates what TP moves it has access to. Since the SC update, it's pretty easy to proc it, though, unless you have GEO's Meva+/Macc- on, you're not going to want to proc it more than once or else it will exclusively use a high duration stun move. When it's only proc'd once, it can't use attack down/jet stream, so it's ideal to proc it once then leave it.

Hakawai gains a considerable evasion boost each time it readies a TP move. I know that while it's under the effect of chainspell, it can't use TP moves, but not sure if silencing it negates that.

Podarge is not completely immune to stun. With an Idris GEO's Meva-/Macc+ a SCH or GEO with a very good stun set can easily stun lock all of its TP moves. Obviously Idris GEO isn't that common, so an easy alternative for a GEO without an Idris would be to use bolster on this NM to achieve the same results.
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 Siren.Sieha
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By Siren.Sieha 2015-03-12 16:47:31  
Ragnarok.Ejiin said: »
Siren.Sieha said: »
Ragnarok.Ejiin said: »
nerd rage

glad to see BG is the same way it was went I left it. Looks like standard people there doing their normal thing. nothing to get excited about.

Now I'm a nerd and below standard because I don't agree with you? That's called cyberbullying, buddy, and pretty much the same as rape.

Huh? I'm not calling you a nerd nor am I disagreeing with you, just BG in general is a bunch of nerds who jump off the deep end of rage on every post. Though in the way you reacted seems par for the BG course.
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By likard 2015-03-12 18:43:31  
Ok, my brother and I toyed around with some of the Marjami bosses. There was one page that said Ironbeak Inguza gains attack and spikes from using magic. We saw no such thing. It's spikes are there from the start. Barwater + sulpor had them doing 0-1 damage for about 30% with no issues. After using Victory Smite, his Spikes went down for 2-3 hits, then came back up. We tried every elemental spell, but nothing seemed to affect him.

Podarge we did a few rounds with.
Round 1, me on blu, brother on blm. Tried using Blizzrd 4-5 to Proc !! as some forums mention. Never saw it. But, while I was meleeing and he was casting, Tp moves did pitiful damage.

Round 2, bro as monk, me as smn. When I used shiva's ice magic abilities (blizzard 4 or heavenly strike) every chance, her TP moves did next to nothing to monk. 100-200 range. When he did all physical between tp moves, she killed him. With shiva soloing just using ice magic, the harpy never did over 200 dd with a tp move, and often did 5-9 damage. Kited/killed solo from 40% ish. We did it without any geo/brd buffs and each dualboxed whms who ran out of mp too quickly since their gear is pretty much sparks and not much else.

If someone wants to try this out with a balance of melee damage and ice magic in a real party, please let me know.
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By Sylph.Kuwoobie 2015-03-12 19:13:04  
I'm seeing all this and wondering why no one attempted to compile this information years ago. Would have saved a lot of headaches. By now most of this is common knowledge, which is likely the reason items like Gabbrath horn have been plummetting in value. I haven't seen a pick up group fail Delve 1 in a few months now-- whereas a few months ago, failing is all they did.
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By Pantafernando 2016-09-03 07:20:00  
Hi.

Did someone figure the Podarge gimmick?

I did him a few times, and i dont think there is too much to do with type of dmg. I once started with full melee and ate Rending Talon for 1500+, started with full blizzard and same thing. My best bet was using a RUN slowly dealing dmg. With slow dmg, Rending Talon hardly went over 200. But im not sure if there is something related to the dps between tp moves or simply the timing to ws or something unrelated.

Thanks in advance.
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By Asura.Ladyofhonor 2016-09-03 07:33:44  
My strat for Podarge is to kill it in seconds so it only gets maybe one TP move off.
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By Cerberus.Kodaijin 2016-09-03 16:34:37  
Same as what lady said for me ... Kill it quickly and it may not get any TP moves off.
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By xaniko 2016-10-20 08:22:57  
Anyone have an updated strat for Khamir delve please? We will go 2xBLU and GEO.
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By Bismarck.Kuroganashi 2016-11-06 19:17:12  
How about Delve Foret ?

anybody has an updated 3 man settup for All Delves !?


I know Ceizak is : THF/DNC THF/DNC GEO/WHM or BLU/DNC THF/DNC GEO/WHM !
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By Sylph.Jeanpaul 2016-11-06 20:49:30  
xaniko said: »
Anyone have an updated strat for Khamir delve please? We will go 2xBLU and GEO.
Two issues for Kamihr; the Pig and the Ram. You have like 45 seconds from pull before the Pig does the damage type barrier. BLU can at least cover the damage type issues though. For the Ram, you ultimately need a form of ranged damage (something BLU really can't do). You can either rely on trusts like Semih, Margret, etc, or just have one of your BLUs go another job like COR, THF, SAM, or RNG. Also, the boss takes reduced slashing but bonus blunt/fire, so using clubs might be a better choice.

I've been able to handle all Delves except Yorcia as THF/RUN, BRD, and any 3rd job. Could probably do Yorcia using swords, but I have RUN for that. Anyway, most NMs, including bosses, die extremely fast due to the reduced HP. I presume this would work with essentially any melee job, though some zones require multiple weapon types. More info on it in the spoiler since I figure most people aren't interested in this:
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