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Treason and Congress letter to Iran - No one undermines the US like the Republicans
By Lye 2015-03-12 11:10:27
UPDATE: the petition(to prosecute the senators under the logan act) has now surpassed 100,000 signatures, which means the White House will have to respond to it.
100k signatures in 3 days. Anyone want to wager it hits 1,000,000 before the end of March?
Source
EDIT: WOW! Since this morning (when I saw the 100k signatures) it has hit 219,046!!!!! It more than doubled in the 12 hours I was at work!! And yet, no petition on that website to prosecute Clinton for her breach of security and lack of record keeping for not backing up and releasing her official governmental emails from her private email address. Go start one then. They don't have electricity, let alone internet connections, in those parts yet. Otherwise I'm sure he would.
Starting a petition in siberia would yield more results.
Something tells me some of the signers of that petition would probably be doing it through AOL.
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By Odin.Jassik 2015-03-12 11:13:49
UPDATE: the petition(to prosecute the senators under the logan act) has now surpassed 100,000 signatures, which means the White House will have to respond to it.
100k signatures in 3 days. Anyone want to wager it hits 1,000,000 before the end of March?
Source
EDIT: WOW! Since this morning (when I saw the 100k signatures) it has hit 219,046!!!!! It more than doubled in the 12 hours I was at work!! And yet, no petition on that website to prosecute Clinton for her breach of security and lack of record keeping for not backing up and releasing her official governmental emails from her private email address. Go start one then. They don't have electricity, let alone internet connections, in those parts yet. Otherwise I'm sure he would.
Starting a petition in siberia would yield more results.
Something tells me some of the signers of that petition would probably be doing it through AOL.
Or at least refer to it as "the internets".
Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2015-03-12 11:52:39
As for John McCain, he's borderline terrorist wannabe, but definitely a supporter of terrorists aboard. As for a Tea Party guy, no.
He definitely needs to go.
I voted for McCain in AZ and I've always thought he was too mired in party politics to be truly effective, but he was at least a voice of reason. He did the song and dance for the cameras, but when push came to shove, he had the public's best interest in mind. He may have been a maverick at some point, but now he's just an irrelevant senile puppet. It's time to hang up your hat, john.Like 10 years ago or so he was ok I guess, but yeah.
Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2015-03-12 12:25:50
As for the petition, my guess, the White House will not acknowledge it until after the elections in Israeli.
Bahamut.Ravael
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2015-03-12 13:08:49
We're doing something ableit misguided, inneffective, and insolent! Do you have teenage kids? Vote for us because we're just like them!
The votes of the young people are the reason we have a misguided, ineffective, and insolent president.
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By Odin.Jassik 2015-03-12 13:14:13
We're doing something ableit misguided, inneffective, and insolent! Do you have teenage kids? Vote for us because we're just like them!
The votes of the young people are the reason we have a misguided, ineffective, and insolent president.
You mean someone other than affluent old white guys voting results in representative democracy? Conservatives voting along party lines based solely on social issues is no different than liberals voting along party lines based solely on social issues.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-03-12 13:15:33
No, I don't want to waste time on a petition that will be ignored by the white house.
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Bahamut.Ravael
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2015-03-12 13:15:55
We're doing something ableit misguided, inneffective, and insolent! Do you have teenage kids? Vote for us because we're just like them! The votes of the young people are the reason we have a misguided, ineffective, and insolent president. You mean someone other than affluent old white guys voting results in representative democracy? Conservatives voting along party lines based solely on social issues is no different than liberals voting along party lines based solely on social issues.
Aaaaaaaand you missed the point.
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Bahamut.Ravael
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2015-03-12 13:18:42
Liberals when Democrats do something stupid:
"Man, I can't understand why people are making such a big deal out of this! Yeah, it was a little sketchy, but let's not make a mountain out of a molehole here, people."
Liberals when Republicans do something stupid:
"Treason! TRRRRRRREEEEEEAAAAAAASSSSSSOOOOOOONNNNNNNNNNNNNNN!"
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By Odin.Jassik 2015-03-12 13:18:44
We're doing something ableit misguided, inneffective, and insolent! Do you have teenage kids? Vote for us because we're just like them! The votes of the young people are the reason we have a misguided, ineffective, and insolent president. You mean someone other than affluent old white guys voting results in representative democracy? Conservatives voting along party lines based solely on social issues is no different than liberals voting along party lines based solely on social issues.
Aaaaaaaand you missed the point.
Care to break it down, then?
Liberals when a Democrats do something stupid:
"Man, I can't understand why people are making such a big deal out of this! Yeah, it was a little sketchy, but let's not make a mountain out of a molehole here, people."
Liberals when Republicans do something stupid:
"Treason! TRRRRRRREEEEEEAAAAAAASSSSSSOOOOOOONNNNNNNNNNNNNNN!"
Right, and conservatives were up in arms about Bush's war crimes...
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Bahamut.Ravael
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2015-03-12 13:28:28
Care to break it down, then? No, because it was obvious. Right, and conservatives were up in arms about Bush's war crimes... So, you agree with me, but you feel the need to make it a "same thing both sides" argument. Have fun with that. While you're at it, give a run-down of why the left stopped caring about the deaths in the Middle East once Obama took over.
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By Shiva.Viciousss 2015-03-12 13:29:43
As if that can't be applied to conservatives, Rav. I mean, really.
Bahamut.Ravael
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2015-03-12 13:33:31
As if that can't be applied to conservatives, Rav. I mean, really.
Part of what I was trying to do was bait you guys into pulling the same crap that you accuse me of occasionally. "Same thing both sides" is totally cool when the shoe is on the other foot, I guess. It worked, so that's about all I have to say on the matter.
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By Odin.Jassik 2015-03-12 13:38:17
Care to break it down, then? No, because it was obvious. Right, and conservatives were up in arms about Bush's war crimes... So, you agree with me, but you feel the need to make it a "same thing both sides" argument. Have fun with that. While you're at it, give a run-down of why the left stopped caring about the deaths in the Middle East once Obama took over.
I criticize partisan politics on both sides. I can't stand the idea of people expressing support exclusively for one collective viewpoint in every situation. I know plenty of liberals who are staunch supporters of gun rights and I know a metric ton of conservatives who don't give a rip about abortion or same-sex marriage. Anyone who aligns with every stance a party puts forth is either drinking the kool-aid or lying.
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By Shiva.Viciousss 2015-03-12 13:38:42
Well, this letter goes beyond stupid. Willfully trying to sabotage peace talks, which if they were to fail, could lead to real consequences up to and including war with Iran, is far more serious than whatever "scandal" the GOP is crying about on any given day. And this guy keeps going out there and repeating that it is indeed his goal to sabotage the talks. All he has succeeded in doing is fracturing his own party and risking the defeat of a bill that would actually give Congress a say. But yeah, email scandal.
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By Odin.Jassik 2015-03-12 13:41:21
Well, this letter goes beyond stupid. Willfully trying to sabotage peace talks, which if they were to fail, could lead to real consequences up to and including war with Iran, is far more serious than whatever "scandal" the GOP is crying about on any given day. And this guy keeps going out there and repeating that it is indeed his goal to sabotage the talks. All he has succeeded in doing is fracturing his own party and risking the defeat of a bill that would actually give Congress a say. But yeah, email scandal.
Well, when it comes to culpability, a large factor is usually harm. I'd imagine if defamation were more applicable to public figures, you'd see some pushback on the fake scandals. As it sits, there could be real harm to the negotiations and the country.
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By Lakshmi.Flavin 2015-03-12 13:47:26
Liberals when Democrats do something stupid:
"Man, I can't understand why people are making such a big deal out of this! Yeah, it was a little sketchy, but let's not make a mountain out of a molehole here, people."
Liberals when Republicans do something stupid:
"Treason! TRRRRRRREEEEEEAAAAAAASSSSSSOOOOOOONNNNNNNNNNNNNNN!" I don't know how you can say this with a straight face when Republicans do the same exact thing lol.
I'm not saying Democrats don't do the same thing but Republicans are no better in this regard and you're really just criticizing your own as well.
Bahamut.Ravael
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2015-03-12 13:48:22
Liberals when Democrats do something stupid: "Man, I can't understand why people are making such a big deal out of this! Yeah, it was a little sketchy, but let's not make a mountain out of a molehole here, people." Liberals when Republicans do something stupid: "Treason! TRRRRRRREEEEEEAAAAAAASSSSSSOOOOOOONNNNNNNNNNNNNNN!" I don't know how you can say this with a straight face when Republicans do the same exact thing lol. I'm not saying Democrats don't do the same thing but Republicans are no better in this regard and you're really just criticizing your own as well.
Apparently you missed what I posted afterwards....
But hey, it reinforces my point even further.
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Lakshmi.Flavin
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By Lakshmi.Flavin 2015-03-12 13:55:02
Liberals when Democrats do something stupid: "Man, I can't understand why people are making such a big deal out of this! Yeah, it was a little sketchy, but let's not make a mountain out of a molehole here, people." Liberals when Republicans do something stupid: "Treason! TRRRRRRREEEEEEAAAAAAASSSSSSOOOOOOONNNNNNNNNNNNNNN!" I don't know how you can say this with a straight face when Republicans do the same exact thing lol. I'm not saying Democrats don't do the same thing but Republicans are no better in this regard and you're really just criticizing your own as well.
Apparently you missed what I posted afterwards.... I read it after I posted that.
It doesnt really change anything. There will always be people blind to either side and only for their own and others who try to look at it objectively.
Is this supposed to stop people from disagreeing or voicing that?
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-03-12 13:58:02
I want to know why no one said anything about Clinton using her personal email until right now. I mean... she's been in contact with both democrats and republicans via email during her time as secretary of state so they all knew about it. Why did no one on either side make a stink about it until right now?
Oh yeah... no one was worried about it until the presidential election started coming around the bend.
Nobody made a fuss about it because it was expected that she turn over her personal emails regarding government business to the State Department for record keeping. Which she never did.
AP was the one who sued under Freedom of Information regulations.
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Bahamut.Ravael
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2015-03-12 13:58:14
I read it after I posted that.
It doesnt really change anything. There will always be people blind to either side and only for their own and others who try to look at it objectively.
Is this supposed to stop people from disagreeing or voicing that?
Nope. I was just looking for ammo for the next time I make a similar argument and get resistance. I don't mind one-sidedness so much. Hypocrisy, on the other hand....
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Lakshmi.Zerowone
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By Lakshmi.Zerowone 2015-03-12 14:07:17
All this bickering when Chaos posted an article that brings a very hard hitting point.
This letter is now evidence in the supreme leader of Iran's mind to not take any American act of diplomacy seriously now.
Regardless of partisan lines this letter was one of the stupidest moves. All it did was serve to undermines the integrity and authority for this and future US administrations interactions with/in Iran and quite possibly the majority of nations in the Middle East.
So bravo to the idiot from Arkansas and his 47 friends who let that genie out the bottle.
By fonewear 2015-03-12 14:09:54
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Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2015-03-12 14:10:46
All this bickering when Chaos posted an article that brings a very hard hitting point.
This letter is now evidence in the supreme leader of Iran's mind to not take any American act of diplomacy seriously now.
Regardless of partisan lines this letter was one of the stupidest moves. All it did was serve to undermines the integrity and authority for this and future US administrations interactions with/in Iran and quite possibly the majority of nations in the Middle East.
So bravo to the idiot from Arkansas and his 47 friends who let that genie out the bottle. I way say Cotton is definitely a moron.
However, this is a continuing trend that has been going on for awhile now and for it to reach this kind of magnitude, partisan bickering is not the solution, only a catalyst.
By fonewear 2015-03-12 14:11:27
Partisan bickering in Congress never !
By Lye 2015-03-12 14:12:24
We're doing something ableit misguided, inneffective, and insolent! Do you have teenage kids? Vote for us because we're just like them!
The votes of the young people are the reason we have a misguided, ineffective, and insolent president.
Hate to break your bubble but it's collectively agreed that the "youth vote" didn't show for Obama in 2012 the way it did in 2008.
http://www.civicyouth.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/CIRCLE_2013FS_outhVoting2012FINAL.pdfQuote: Using the CPS turnout data and National Election Pools exit poll statistics,
CIRCLE estimates that approximately 14.8 million voters under 30 cast their votes for Barack Obama in2008. Only about 12.3 million young voters chose Obama in 2012—a drop of close to 2.4 million votes.
Obama received about 3.7 million fewer total votes from all age groups in 2012 than he had in 2008.
I'd like to see your justification for Obama being insolent. Please elaborate!
Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2015-03-12 14:12:40
Partisan bickering in Congress never ! It's part of the process, but historically a comprise always comes to light. Compromises seem to come by less and less now.
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By fonewear 2015-03-12 14:13:20
I'll comprise with you soon as I get what I want !
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Lakshmi.Flavin
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By Lakshmi.Flavin 2015-03-12 14:14:21
I read it after I posted that.
It doesnt really change anything. There will always be people blind to either side and only for their own and others who try to look at it objectively.
Is this supposed to stop people from disagreeing or voicing that?
Nope. I was just looking for ammo for the next time I make a similar argument and get resistance. I don't mind one-sidedness so much. Hypocrisy, on the other hand.... Stock up then. Hypocrisy is pretty abundant here on both sides of the coin.
Ridiculous - Republicans send Iran a letter that undermines and contradicts their own president. Perhaps the severest blow to American international standing since ever?
EDIT: Below is the NYT's article on the subject. I chose the NYT despite the fact that I think they went soft on the issue to try and be objective.
Quote: WASHINGTON — The fractious debate over a possible nuclear deal with Iran escalated on Monday as 47 Republican senators warned Iran about making an agreement with President Obama, and the White House accused them of undercutting foreign policy.
In a rare direct congressional intervention into diplomatic negotiations, the Republicans signed an open letter addressed to “leaders of the Islamic Republic of Iran” declaring that any agreement without legislative approval could be reversed by the next president “with the stroke of a pen.”
Continue reading the main story
RELATED COVERAGE
Obama Says Nuclear Deal Offered to Iran Tests Whether It Is SeriousMARCH 8, 2015
After Talks, Nuclear Deal on Iran Is Seen as CloseMARCH 7, 2015
Netanyahu Speech Has Eager Audience in IranMARCH 3, 2015
The letter appeared aimed at unraveling a framework agreement even as negotiators grew close to reaching it. Mr. Obama, working with leaders of five other world powers, argues that the pact would be the best way to keep Iran from obtaining a nuclear bomb. But critics from both parties say that such a deal would be a dangerous charade that would leave Iran with the opportunity to eventually build weapons that could be used against Israel or other foes.
Continue reading the main story
Document: Letter From Senate Republicans to the Leaders of Iran
While the possible agreement has drawn bipartisan criticism, the letter, signed only by Republicans, underscored the increasingly party-line flavor of the clash. Just last week, the Republican House speaker, John A. Boehner, gave Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu of Israel the platform of a joint meeting of Congress to denounce the developing deal, and Senate Republicans briefly tried to advance legislation aimed at forcing Mr. Obama to submit it to Congress, alienating Democratic allies.
The letter came as Secretary of State John Kerry’s office announced that he would return to Switzerland on Sunday in hopes of completing the framework agreement before an end-of-March deadline. Under the terms being discussed, Iran would pare back its nuclear program enough so that it would be unable to produce enough fuel for a bomb in less than a year if it tried to break out of the agreement. The pact would last at least 10 years; in exchange the world powers would lift sanctions.
Whether the Republican letter might undercut Iran’s willingness to strike a deal was not clear. Iran reacted with scorn. “In our view, this letter has no legal value and is mostly a propaganda ploy,” Mohammad Javad Zarif, Iran’s foreign minister, said in a statement. “It is very interesting that while negotiations are still in progress and while no agreement has been reached, some political pressure groups are so afraid even of the prospect of an agreement that they resort to unconventional methods, unprecedented in diplomatic history.”
A senior American official said the letter probably would not stop an agreement from being reached, but could make it harder to blame Iran if the talks fail. “The problem is if there is not an agreement, the perception of who is at fault is critically important to our ability to maintain pressure, and this type of thing would likely be used by the Iranians in that scenario,” said the official, who spoke anonymously to discuss the negotiations.
The White House and congressional Democrats expressed outrage, calling the letter an unprecedented violation of the tradition of leaving politics at the water’s edge. Republicans said that by styling it as an “open letter,” it was akin to a statement, not an overt intervention in the talks.
“It’s somewhat ironic to see some members of Congress wanting to make common cause with the hard-liners in Iran,” Mr. Obama told reporters. “It’s an unusual coalition.”
Other Democrats were sharper. Josh Earnest, the White House press secretary, called it “just the latest in an ongoing strategy, a partisan strategy, to undermine the president’s ability to conduct foreign policy.” Senator Harry M. Reid of Nevada, the Democratic minority leader, said the “Republicans are undermining our commander in chief while empowering the ayatollahs.”
Continue reading the main story
GRAPHIC
The Nuclear Talks With Iran, Explained
What the United States and Iran want out of discussions over Iran’s nuclear development.
OPEN GRAPHIC
The letter, drafted by Senator Tom Cotton, a freshman from Arkansas, and signed by all but seven members of the Senate Republican majority, warned Iran that a deal with Mr. Obama might not stick. “The next president could revoke such an executive agreement with the stroke of a pen, and future Congresses could modify the terms of the agreement at any time,” said the letter, whose existence was reported earlier by Bloomberg News.
Mr. Cotton said he drafted the letter because Iran’s leaders might not understand America’s constitutional system. He also said the terms of the emerging deal were dangerous because they would not be permanent and would leave Iran with nuclear infrastructure. He noted that four Republican senators who may run for president signed his letter and added that he tried without success to get Democrats to sign.
Continue reading the main story
RECENT COMMENTS
Eugene Gorrin 27 minutes ago
Disgraceful.The Republican/Tea Party has made no secret of its desire to sabotage negotiations over Iran's nuclear capabilities. That was...
Sonny Pitchumani 28 minutes ago
As usual, many liberal commenters in this forum are happy to throw around the word TREASON and to suggest that the Senators who sent the...
horatio fisk 28 minutes ago
It is highly amusing that the GOP does not realize that no one in this country takes them seriously so why should anyone in Iran. Well you...
SEE ALL COMMENTS
“The only thing unprecedented is an American president negotiating a nuclear deal with the world’s leading state sponsor of terrorism without submitting it to Congress,” he said on CNN.
The letter revived an old debate about what role Congress should have in diplomacy.
Jim Wright, the Democratic House speaker during Ronald Reagan’s presidency, was accused of interfering when he met with opposing leaders in Nicaragua’s contra war. Three House Democrats went to Iraq in 2002 before President George W. Bush’s invasion to try to head off war. And Nancy Pelosi, the House Democratic leader, went to Syria in 2007 to meet with President Bashar al-Assad against the wishes of the Bush administration, which was trying to isolate him.
An agreement with Iran would not require immediate congressional action because Mr. Obama has the power to lift sanctions he imposed under his executive authority and to suspend others imposed by Congress. But permanently lifting those imposed by Congress, as Iran has sought, would eventually require a vote.
Rather than wait, Republicans, joined by several Democrats, drafted legislation aimed at forcing Mr. Obama to submit the agreement to Congress. But when Senator Mitch McConnell of Kentucky, the Republican majority leader, moved to advance that legislation for a vote, Democrats who support it balked at taking action before the talks with Iran concluded. Mr. McConnell backed off, but the bill may be revived if a deal is reached.
Among the Republicans who declined to sign Mr. Cotton’s letter was Senator Bob Corker of Tennessee, the Foreign Relations Committee chairman, who has been working with Democrats on Iran legislation. “We’ve got a bipartisan effort that’s underway that has a chance of being successful, and while I understand all kinds of people want to weigh in,” he said, he concluded that it would not “be helpful in that effort for me to be involved in it.”
Some Democrats, like Representative Brad Sherman of California, said the letter and other moves risked making it a party-line issue, in which case it would be impossible to muster a two-thirds vote to override a presidential veto. “The number of Democrats not willing to follow the president’s lead is reduced when it becomes a personal or political issue,” he said.
Correction: March 9, 2015
A previous version of this article misstated the given name of the senator who drafted the letter from American lawmakers to Iranian leaders. He is Tom Cotton, not Tim Cotton. http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/10/world/asia/white-house-faults-gop-senators-letter-to-irans-leaders.html?_r=0
The Republicans first undermine their democratically elected president AND Nation by inviting a foreign leader to address them in a televised event, effectively turning the American people's house of representatives into a political brothel.
They then openly contradict the commander in chief of the nation and more or less say the US presidency is a lame duck office not worthy of taking seriously.
At best, the American political system is the greatest threat to American foreign policy.
At worst, America is so deeply entrenched in racism - made apparent by how the election of a black american has polarized the country's population - that its foreign policy be damned.
Republicans might as well have just said "Burn this house down".
I can't wait to see how the GOP goons on this forum try to deflect from the issue and/or demonstrate just how retarded their demographic is.
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