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Treason and Congress letter to Iran - No one undermines the US like the Republicans
Leviathan.Chaosx
サーバ: Leviathan
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Posts: 20284
By Leviathan.Chaosx 2015-03-12 17:03:26
Back on topic.
Quote: Major world powers have quietly begun talks on a U.N. Security Council resolution to lift U.N. sanctions on Iran if a nuclear agreement is struck, a step that could make it harder for the U.S. Congress to undo a deal, Western officials said.
The talks between Britain, China, France, Russia and the United States — the five permanent members of the Security Council — plus Germany and Iran, are taking place ahead of difficult negotiations that resume next week over constricting Tehran's nuclear ability.
U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry told Congress on Wednesday that an Iran nuclear deal would not be legally binding, meaning future presidents could decide not to implement it. That point was emphasized in an open letter by 47 Republican senators sent on Monday to Iran's leaders asserting any deal could be discarded once President Barack Obama leaves office in January 2017
But a Security Council resolution on a nuclear deal with Iran could be legally binding, say Western diplomatic officials, complicating and possibly undercutting future attempts by Republicans in Washington to unravel an agreement.
Iran and the six powers are aiming to complete the framework of a final nuclear deal by the end of March and achieve a full agreement by June 30 to curb Iran's most sensitive nuclear activities for at least 10 years in exchange for a gradual end of all sanctions on the Islamic Republic.
So far, those talks have focused heavily on separate U.S. and EU sanctions on Iran's energy and financial sectors, which Tehran desperately wants removed and are a sticking point in the talks that resume next week in Lausanne, Switzerland, between Iran and the six powers.
But Western officials involved in the negotiations said they are also discussing a draft resolution for the 15-nation Security Council to begin easing U.N. nuclear-related sanctions that have been in place since December 2006.
"If there's a nuclear deal, and that's still a big 'if', we'll want to move quickly on the U.N. sanctions issue," an official said, requesting anonymity. Exclusive: Talks under way on ending U.N. sanctions on Iran - officials
By Zackan 2015-03-12 17:03:52
I'm American.
Here and your rousing speeches didn't really do much for me.
Alas! I guess I' just impervious to the influences of such powerful documents.
I'm going to try out for the X-men.
Which is why we have opposing views and opposing ideas to solutions to our problems. I want to be true to Constitution and you want to see how many ways you can break away from it.
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Bismarck.Ihina
サーバ: Bismarck
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Posts: 3187
By Bismarck.Ihina 2015-03-12 17:04:42
I think you just want it to be more than it is just so you can justify the actions you've taken in your life.
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By Lye 2015-03-12 17:04:44
My code name will be: doctrine
By Zackan 2015-03-12 17:08:02
I think you just want it to be more than it is just so you can justify the actions you've taken in your life.
What actions? Being an american who pays attention to our affairs and wishes to have an impact? To not be the 70% who say ' i choose not to vote because my vote doesnt matter'
I love how Patriotic is translated as something bad among you guys.
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サーバ: Shiva
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By Shiva.Viciousss 2015-03-12 17:08:39
Expect this to infuriate the GOP even more, followed by them coming right out and saying they will never sign off on lifting US sanctions.
Lakshmi.Zerowone
サーバ: Lakshmi
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By Lakshmi.Zerowone 2015-03-12 17:09:01
"People who want to undo the work of Roosevelt are attempting political suicide and are dumb" - Ike Eisenhower, some guy who didn't like Roosevelt but knew better than to reverse his legacy while President.
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Bismarck.Ihina
サーバ: Bismarck
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Posts: 3187
By Bismarck.Ihina 2015-03-12 17:10:50
I think you just want it to be more than it is just so you can justify the actions you've taken in your life.
What actions? Being an american who pays attention to our affairs and wishes to have an impact? To not be the 70% who say ' i choose not to vote because my vote doesnt matter'
I love how Patriotic is translated as something bad among you guys.
Going to war 3 times must have been fun.
Personally, I thought 1940s Germany taught the world what happens when you replace objectivity with blind nationalism, but here we are again.
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By fonewear 2015-03-12 17:11:15
13 pages till a Hitler reference son I"m disappointed.
By Zackan 2015-03-12 17:11:52
"People who want to undo the work of Roosevelt are attempting political suicide and are dumb" - Ike Eisenhower, some guy who didn't like Roosevelt but knew better than to reverse his legacy while President.
maybe, but oh well
By fonewear 2015-03-12 17:13:08
We are verging on a Civics lesson this is dangerous.
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By Zackan 2015-03-12 17:15:21
I think you just want it to be more than it is just so you can justify the actions you've taken in your life.
What actions? Being an american who pays attention to our affairs and wishes to have an impact? To not be the 70% who say ' i choose not to vote because my vote doesnt matter'
I love how Patriotic is translated as something bad among you guys.
Going to war 3 times must have been fun.
Personally, I thought 1940s Germany taught the world what happens when you replace objectivity with blind nationalism, but here we are again.
Better than the disease that is progressivism I may be a little to loyal to the Constitution, maybe, but progressives see it as a plague, the goal of progressivism is to change everything, until it is unrecognizable. And then change it somemore. Progressives read the constitution loosely, because the aim to find what you can get a way with, while a strict reader wants to know what it actually says.
What does it NOT stop me doing vs what does it tell me to do.
Bismarck.Ihina
サーバ: Bismarck
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By Bismarck.Ihina 2015-03-12 17:18:05
I think you just want it to be more than it is just so you can justify the actions you've taken in your life.
What actions? Being an american who pays attention to our affairs and wishes to have an impact? To not be the 70% who say ' i choose not to vote because my vote doesnt matter'
I love how Patriotic is translated as something bad among you guys.
Going to war 3 times must have been fun.
Personally, I thought 1940s Germany taught the world what happens when you replace objectivity with blind nationalism, but here we are again.
Better than the disease that is progressivism I may be a little to loyal to the Constitution, maybe, but progressives see it as a plague, the goal of progressivism is to change everything, until it is unrecognizable. And then change it somemore. Progressives read the constitution loosely, because the aim to find what you can get a way with, while a strict reader wants to know what it actually says.
What does it NOT stop me doing vs what does it tell me to do.
Now it just sounds like you're trying to make an enemy out of thin air.
Making up lies about another group of citizens just so you can demonize them also reminds me of 1940s Germany.
Leviathan.Chaosx
サーバ: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 20284
By Leviathan.Chaosx 2015-03-12 17:19:17
Expect this to infuriate the GOP even more, followed by them coming right out and saying they will never sign off on lifting US sanctions. Sounds like the ante has been upped by the dems.
By fonewear 2015-03-12 17:19:39
How many references to Hitler can we fit on one page. I'll go with 4 !
Bismarck.Ihina
サーバ: Bismarck
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Posts: 3187
By Bismarck.Ihina 2015-03-12 17:23:00
It's actually a Nazi reference, but Hitler reference is more of a meme, so I understand.
By fonewear 2015-03-12 17:23:15
The year is 2016 Hitler has come back to visit America to kill zombie Jews !
Meanwhile the Jew lover in Iran won't stop developing enriched uranium !
Maybe if we ask really nice. Pretty please with a cherry on top stop enriching uranium.
Leviathan.Chaosx
サーバ: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 20284
By Leviathan.Chaosx 2015-03-12 17:24:21
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By Lye 2015-03-12 17:26:34
I think you just want it to be more than it is just so you can justify the actions you've taken in your life.
What actions? Being an american who pays attention to our affairs and wishes to have an impact? To not be the 70% who say ' i choose not to vote because my vote doesnt matter'
I love how Patriotic is translated as something bad among you guys.
Going to war 3 times must have been fun.
Personally, I thought 1940s Germany taught the world what happens when you replace objectivity with blind nationalism, but here we are again.
Better than the disease that is progressivism I may be a little to loyal to the Constitution, maybe, but progressives see it as a plague, the goal of progressivism is to change everything, until it is unrecognizable. And then change it somemore. Progressives read the constitution loosely, because the aim to find what you can get a way with, while a strict reader wants to know what it actually says.
What does it NOT stop me doing vs what does it tell me to do.
Sorry but gotta keep this intact as I have MSPaint plans for it.
By fonewear 2015-03-12 17:28:25
Is this about Iran or George W Bush cause I'm not sure.
Both are evil but I'm not sure which is more evil.
Leviathan.Chaosx
サーバ: Leviathan
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Posts: 20284
By Leviathan.Chaosx 2015-03-12 17:28:58
This is about 'Murica! & Iran
By fonewear 2015-03-12 17:30:36
Well it's simple than Murica > Iran
Tell those Jew lovers we've had it up to here with the uranium !
By fonewear 2015-03-12 17:35:52
UN sanction let me hold my laughter !
VIP
サーバ: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9534
By Odin.Jassik 2015-03-12 18:16:42
I think you just want it to be more than it is just so you can justify the actions you've taken in your life.
What actions? Being an american who pays attention to our affairs and wishes to have an impact? To not be the 70% who say ' i choose not to vote because my vote doesnt matter'
I love how Patriotic is translated as something bad among you guys.
Going to war 3 times must have been fun.
Personally, I thought 1940s Germany taught the world what happens when you replace objectivity with blind nationalism, but here we are again.
Better than the disease that is progressivism I may be a little to loyal to the Constitution, maybe, but progressives see it as a plague, the goal of progressivism is to change everything, until it is unrecognizable. And then change it somemore. Progressives read the constitution loosely, because the aim to find what you can get a way with, while a strict reader wants to know what it actually says.
What does it NOT stop me doing vs what does it tell me to do.
Progressives want to change things, yeah, that's the definition of progressive.
But, I'd like to hear how you think progressives are trying to change the constitution and why it would be a bad thing in your examples. Similarly, how are conservatives trying to preserve it, and why are those examples good.
Bonus points for using facts, points lost for typical diametric "us good them bad" ***.
Bismarck.Ihina
サーバ: Bismarck
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Posts: 3187
By Bismarck.Ihina 2015-03-12 18:26:18
I don't think a guy who's ok with amending the Constitution but hates changes made to the constitution can go that much in depth.
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サーバ: Siren
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2020
By Siren.Lordgrim 2015-03-12 19:45:29
[quote="Asura.Kingnobody" pid=2842308]But if you are going to accuse anyone of treason, [b]name the law that person broke[/b].[/quote]
Republicans and Democrats currently serving and former who written laws that are still alive today that[b] Knowingly broke oaths sworn to uphold the constitutional rights of the citizens of the united states of america.[/b]
[quote="maldini" pid=2842316]Every republican that tries to squirm his way out of this is either an idiot, ignorant or a traitor.
They're informed now so they can't be ignorant.
That just leaves idiocy and treachery. Lets see where the pieces fall as the posts come in.[/quote]
its not just republicans who should be convicted of treason charges and be hanged. The democrats knowingly had there hands in breaking oaths they swore to uphold the citizens constitutional law. Our constitutional law and our rights and freedoms derived from it will be restored in our life time.
By Bloodrose 2015-03-12 20:11:21
But if you are going to accuse anyone of treason, name the law that person broke.
Republicans and Democrats currently serving and former who written laws that are still alive today that Knowingly broke oaths sworn to uphold the constitutional rights of the citizens of the united states of america.
Every republican that tries to squirm his way out of this is either an idiot, ignorant or a traitor.
They're informed now so they can't be ignorant.
That just leaves idiocy and treachery. Lets see where the pieces fall as the posts come in.
its not just republicans who should be convicted of treason charges and be hanged. The democrats knowingly had there hands in breaking oaths they swore to uphold the citizens constitutional law. Our constitutional law and our rights and freedoms derived from it will be restored in our life time. So you've gone from illegally arresting and charging public officials with treason, to illegally hanging them without a trial.
Did I call this, or did I call this?
Again, you have yet to point out any laws broken, nor will you ever be able to. a self-proclaimed "student of criminal justice" who can't even name the school of law he attended at, let alone the professor, or legal courses taken, will never be able to do so.
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サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 34187
By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-03-12 20:13:41
But if you are going to accuse anyone of treason, name the law that person broke. Republicans and Democrats currently serving and former who written laws that are still alive today that Knowingly broke oaths sworn to uphold the constitutional rights of the citizens of the united states of america.
its not just republicans who should be convicted of treason charges and be hanged. The democrats knowingly had there hands in breaking oaths they swore to uphold the citizens constitutional law. Our constitutional law and our rights and freedoms derived from it will be restored in our life time. Name an instance where an oath was broken, and provide reasoning behind your accusation.
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By Bloodrose 2015-03-12 20:18:19
Also, as a student of criminal justice, you should know that evidence must first be presented, and that the accused have a right to face their accusers, and to present a defense before the courts.
But by all means, convict them without evidence, as it quite clearly shows you're not as impartial as you *tried* to initially portray yourself.
You've been asked time and again to present evidence, or at the very least, an argument as to why both parties should be arrested for treason, and at every mention, have so strongly ignored it, that any credibility you have, is worse than Hillary Clinton's during this current "scandal".
Oh, and what was it that the Federal Reserve did? Who is in control of the Reserve? Oh right, multiple entities including private banking institutions, which reports to Congress.
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By Zackan 2015-03-12 20:33:59
I don't think a guy who's ok with amending the Constitution but hates changes made to the constitution can go that much in depth.
Such an inappropriate statement.
If you can get a 3/4 vote to ratify the constitution then i would fully support the change. The changes I speak of progressives making is in translation of the constitution. Attempt to move the bar, once the new position is settled then move it again.
I am a constitutional conservative with a dash of libertarian. I believe we have gotten out of control with spending and goverment programs and entities. I would support an abolishment of the IRS and the DOE. I believe that when it comes to Immigration, I don't have a problem with Amnesty actually, what I have a problem with is putting cart before the horse. We need to adress tightening our borders FIRST then we can DISCUSS how to deal with immigrants living here.
I believe in seperate but equal (yah yah, i can feel that statement being targeted already) definitions of Marriage. I believe that spirituality should not be as taboo as it is these days. I believe that all presidents are hated, especially while they are still in office. I believe that presidents get blamed for the results of the prior president coming into fruition.
I believe that the senate should be elected by the states(like it use to be) I believe the Federal Reserve needs to be dissolved. I believe we need to add more amendments to the constitution(balanced budget, 12 year limit for congress)
Ridiculous - Republicans send Iran a letter that undermines and contradicts their own president. Perhaps the severest blow to American international standing since ever?
EDIT: Below is the NYT's article on the subject. I chose the NYT despite the fact that I think they went soft on the issue to try and be objective.
Quote: WASHINGTON — The fractious debate over a possible nuclear deal with Iran escalated on Monday as 47 Republican senators warned Iran about making an agreement with President Obama, and the White House accused them of undercutting foreign policy.
In a rare direct congressional intervention into diplomatic negotiations, the Republicans signed an open letter addressed to “leaders of the Islamic Republic of Iran” declaring that any agreement without legislative approval could be reversed by the next president “with the stroke of a pen.”
Continue reading the main story
RELATED COVERAGE
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The letter appeared aimed at unraveling a framework agreement even as negotiators grew close to reaching it. Mr. Obama, working with leaders of five other world powers, argues that the pact would be the best way to keep Iran from obtaining a nuclear bomb. But critics from both parties say that such a deal would be a dangerous charade that would leave Iran with the opportunity to eventually build weapons that could be used against Israel or other foes.
Continue reading the main story
Document: Letter From Senate Republicans to the Leaders of Iran
While the possible agreement has drawn bipartisan criticism, the letter, signed only by Republicans, underscored the increasingly party-line flavor of the clash. Just last week, the Republican House speaker, John A. Boehner, gave Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu of Israel the platform of a joint meeting of Congress to denounce the developing deal, and Senate Republicans briefly tried to advance legislation aimed at forcing Mr. Obama to submit it to Congress, alienating Democratic allies.
The letter came as Secretary of State John Kerry’s office announced that he would return to Switzerland on Sunday in hopes of completing the framework agreement before an end-of-March deadline. Under the terms being discussed, Iran would pare back its nuclear program enough so that it would be unable to produce enough fuel for a bomb in less than a year if it tried to break out of the agreement. The pact would last at least 10 years; in exchange the world powers would lift sanctions.
Whether the Republican letter might undercut Iran’s willingness to strike a deal was not clear. Iran reacted with scorn. “In our view, this letter has no legal value and is mostly a propaganda ploy,” Mohammad Javad Zarif, Iran’s foreign minister, said in a statement. “It is very interesting that while negotiations are still in progress and while no agreement has been reached, some political pressure groups are so afraid even of the prospect of an agreement that they resort to unconventional methods, unprecedented in diplomatic history.”
A senior American official said the letter probably would not stop an agreement from being reached, but could make it harder to blame Iran if the talks fail. “The problem is if there is not an agreement, the perception of who is at fault is critically important to our ability to maintain pressure, and this type of thing would likely be used by the Iranians in that scenario,” said the official, who spoke anonymously to discuss the negotiations.
The White House and congressional Democrats expressed outrage, calling the letter an unprecedented violation of the tradition of leaving politics at the water’s edge. Republicans said that by styling it as an “open letter,” it was akin to a statement, not an overt intervention in the talks.
“It’s somewhat ironic to see some members of Congress wanting to make common cause with the hard-liners in Iran,” Mr. Obama told reporters. “It’s an unusual coalition.”
Other Democrats were sharper. Josh Earnest, the White House press secretary, called it “just the latest in an ongoing strategy, a partisan strategy, to undermine the president’s ability to conduct foreign policy.” Senator Harry M. Reid of Nevada, the Democratic minority leader, said the “Republicans are undermining our commander in chief while empowering the ayatollahs.”
Continue reading the main story
GRAPHIC
The Nuclear Talks With Iran, Explained
What the United States and Iran want out of discussions over Iran’s nuclear development.
OPEN GRAPHIC
The letter, drafted by Senator Tom Cotton, a freshman from Arkansas, and signed by all but seven members of the Senate Republican majority, warned Iran that a deal with Mr. Obama might not stick. “The next president could revoke such an executive agreement with the stroke of a pen, and future Congresses could modify the terms of the agreement at any time,” said the letter, whose existence was reported earlier by Bloomberg News.
Mr. Cotton said he drafted the letter because Iran’s leaders might not understand America’s constitutional system. He also said the terms of the emerging deal were dangerous because they would not be permanent and would leave Iran with nuclear infrastructure. He noted that four Republican senators who may run for president signed his letter and added that he tried without success to get Democrats to sign.
Continue reading the main story
RECENT COMMENTS
Eugene Gorrin 27 minutes ago
Disgraceful.The Republican/Tea Party has made no secret of its desire to sabotage negotiations over Iran's nuclear capabilities. That was...
Sonny Pitchumani 28 minutes ago
As usual, many liberal commenters in this forum are happy to throw around the word TREASON and to suggest that the Senators who sent the...
horatio fisk 28 minutes ago
It is highly amusing that the GOP does not realize that no one in this country takes them seriously so why should anyone in Iran. Well you...
SEE ALL COMMENTS
“The only thing unprecedented is an American president negotiating a nuclear deal with the world’s leading state sponsor of terrorism without submitting it to Congress,” he said on CNN.
The letter revived an old debate about what role Congress should have in diplomacy.
Jim Wright, the Democratic House speaker during Ronald Reagan’s presidency, was accused of interfering when he met with opposing leaders in Nicaragua’s contra war. Three House Democrats went to Iraq in 2002 before President George W. Bush’s invasion to try to head off war. And Nancy Pelosi, the House Democratic leader, went to Syria in 2007 to meet with President Bashar al-Assad against the wishes of the Bush administration, which was trying to isolate him.
An agreement with Iran would not require immediate congressional action because Mr. Obama has the power to lift sanctions he imposed under his executive authority and to suspend others imposed by Congress. But permanently lifting those imposed by Congress, as Iran has sought, would eventually require a vote.
Rather than wait, Republicans, joined by several Democrats, drafted legislation aimed at forcing Mr. Obama to submit the agreement to Congress. But when Senator Mitch McConnell of Kentucky, the Republican majority leader, moved to advance that legislation for a vote, Democrats who support it balked at taking action before the talks with Iran concluded. Mr. McConnell backed off, but the bill may be revived if a deal is reached.
Among the Republicans who declined to sign Mr. Cotton’s letter was Senator Bob Corker of Tennessee, the Foreign Relations Committee chairman, who has been working with Democrats on Iran legislation. “We’ve got a bipartisan effort that’s underway that has a chance of being successful, and while I understand all kinds of people want to weigh in,” he said, he concluded that it would not “be helpful in that effort for me to be involved in it.”
Some Democrats, like Representative Brad Sherman of California, said the letter and other moves risked making it a party-line issue, in which case it would be impossible to muster a two-thirds vote to override a presidential veto. “The number of Democrats not willing to follow the president’s lead is reduced when it becomes a personal or political issue,” he said.
Correction: March 9, 2015
A previous version of this article misstated the given name of the senator who drafted the letter from American lawmakers to Iranian leaders. He is Tom Cotton, not Tim Cotton. http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/10/world/asia/white-house-faults-gop-senators-letter-to-irans-leaders.html?_r=0
The Republicans first undermine their democratically elected president AND Nation by inviting a foreign leader to address them in a televised event, effectively turning the American people's house of representatives into a political brothel.
They then openly contradict the commander in chief of the nation and more or less say the US presidency is a lame duck office not worthy of taking seriously.
At best, the American political system is the greatest threat to American foreign policy.
At worst, America is so deeply entrenched in racism - made apparent by how the election of a black american has polarized the country's population - that its foreign policy be damned.
Republicans might as well have just said "Burn this house down".
I can't wait to see how the GOP goons on this forum try to deflect from the issue and/or demonstrate just how retarded their demographic is.
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