The Last Dance II: The Show Must Go On

So this mean haste samba actually hurt tp gain if we got magic haste capped? since we cant get less dw.

Nah. JA haste is a separate term.

As long as you don't exceed 1% DW under capped magic/eq haste, your base TP/hit should still be optimal.

(at least that's how I understand it)

But ja haste counts toward 80% total haste cap, so if i hit 80% and i have 35dw on top of that which i cant control cause is trait, in theory i get less tp/hit.

job ability, magic haste, and gear haste don’t affect tp per bit

But the 35dw from trait will if capped haste?

It doesn't matter, since you can't optimize by reducing your DW trait, and that 35% DW lowers your TP/hit the same regardless of whether you have 0% haste or 70% haste.

60% haste with 35% DW gives exactly the same attack speed and TP/hit as 70% haste with 35% DW.

I use Herc with TA4 when Magic haste is capped like Arisian mentioned before.

Only DW gives dimentioning returns if you exceed Delay Cap but other sources of delay reduction don't.
DW alters your weapons directly and reduces TP/Hit according to its formula [The higher the Tier/Value The lower the TP you get from each hit]

For example [With capped magic haste/Samba or without]:
71 TP/Hit with Herc Body=14 hits for 1K TP
68 TP/Hit with Adhemar Body NQ=14.7 hits for 1K TP
67 TP/Hit with Adhemar Body HQ=14.9 hits for 1K TP
66 TP/Hit with 12 DW=15.2 hits for 1K TP

Maybe this will help to show the effects of DW.

Anyone mathed out the new 10% WSD pants for Rudra's? 10% is massive, but so is the 43 DEX on Lustratio+1...

Well its more like 6% assuming you are also using the +1 feet for set bonus, unless you get magical dm feet to compare with.

Updated Spreadsheet with Relic +3, Ashera Harness and Moonlight Ring.
I also ran few tests using new gear for TP/Rudra and these came on top:(Moonlight was used for HP/DT purposes can easily replace it with Petrov)

ItemSet 347569

ItemSet 348205

ItemSet 357524
Herc with 15DEX 4%WSD Taupe Stone

Once Chiaia adds it please refer to Node:
DNC

Updated

So Relic+3 legs actually beat other options for Rudra? Bet the difference isn't huge though, is it?

Not enough to justify the cost i bet.

Eversince the update, prices of Voids and Shards were dropping as low as 1M per piece.
I can see it as a viable "cost" in a couple of months and that margin of "improvement" in sets is quite noticeable [especially in TP set on higher content]
The added defensive traits and attack will make things way much easier.

On spreadsheet it was a 200 difference between them [in WS set] if that helps.
I really vouch for Body +3 however

Yeah, starting to see a lot of DNC shards/voids in bazaars. The job isn't popular, so I don't expect them to go for more than 1-2M.

Body+3 is nice for TP, gonna replace my Herculean Body. Oh wait I never managed to get a decent aug on it! XD

Prices are dropping, they're gonna drop even more when/if they reduce the cooldown for entry and when/if they release a Divergence campaign.
Tbf I think it's gonna happen sooner or later, but don't wanna be too optimistic and jinx it.


I wonder though, wouldn't things have been better if they swapped the augs?
Like TA+4 on Legs and WSD+10 on Body?
That way Legs could've become a very interesting TP option, especially with Saber Dance up, and body would've clearly become BiS for WS, probably any WS really.
I have a similar complaint for NIN, wish the WSD was on the body and the Daken+ on the legs, shame.


Katriina did you test legs for other WSs? Pyrric Kleos and Evisceration mostly. Oh and lolexenterator I guess.
WSD isn't the best on multihit WSs but it still accounts for something. Furthermore, aside from the lack of DEX, the rest of the stats are pretty nice, especially if you're att-uncapped.

Initially I thought SE would make body for WS then legs started to make more sense [purely from the defensive values on Body]

More often than not Attack isn't capped in higher content and the need for MEVA from support can limit the amount of buffs you receive [Especially if you don't have a second BRD/COR/SMN] and many players underestimate the attack provided on Relic Upgrades.

In regards to PK for mythic users:
Before Relic Legs:12070 with 2.2 Rounds/WS
After Relic Legs:12974 with 2.1 Rounds/WS

Is there any place that has defense values of some of the higher content you're speaking of?

The way I read her post (she will correct me if I'm wrong I guess!) was more than *realistically* you don't really reach capped attack on a lot of content outside of 2-3 minutes (at best) of zerg where you have Bolster Idris Frailty/Fury and whatnot.
If you have multiple GEOs in alliance doing different bubbles you could rotate their bolsters for ~7 mins, and you could hope for a COR to wildcard etc
I mean there's a lot of *possible* situations where that could happen, but frankly in realistic situations it doesn't really happen, does it?

I mean at least to our group, usually we don't even bother most of the time, but we're lazy and we don't really play as efficiently as perfect machines I guess.

Sorry for the late response, Sechs summed it up nicely [much appreciated]

All respect goes to players who spend so much time trying to math out this game and come up with strats/scenarios, yet I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again:
Most of strats assume perfect conditions in a closed system that is not even veridical to human responses/lag issues,lockouts from various moves/spells and the frequency of communication via text and/or audio between alliance “real” members.

Not all groups have 2 BRDs 2 CORs SMN buffs and 3 GEOs, some are lucky to have one of each and this changes the landscape of your strat entirely.

Relic Gear provides a leeway to group dynamics, size and preparation.

You don't need 3 GEOs 2 BRDs and 2 CORs to cap attack, least of all on DNC.

I was just looking to see if we had any actual testing done for the current tier of content. I know we have had evasion values in the 119 era on things, and back in the 75 days I remember people testing for AGI, VIT and defense values as well. Was wondering if there was any place with those tests done for some of the current content in the game.

I know that Idris fury/frailty can cap my attack on some Reisen t1's (or seems like it can) so curious where in content I need to eat meat or bring a cor/brd to keep that up.

That was said in the context of High End Meta [not related to Attk]
in order to cover defensive and offensive traits.

Are relic feet +3 only worth while for mythic users? Or are they something I should build if I'll only ever use aeonic/taming?

I'm getting those even w/o mythic.

22 store TP with 5/5 Closed Position is good with absolutely everything, especially for DNC who already has Saber Dance to fall back on for some of their multi-attack needs. The only problem comes from the necessity to be in front of the mob, but you could always build TP sets that take that into account

5/5 closed? whats your other merits then? 3 in no foot rise and 1 in saber/fan?

Yeah, that's what I'd do if using Relic feet. Losing the 2 FMs from No Foot Rise sucks, but 6 more STP during TP should even that discrepancy or surpass it. This all comes down to how effectively you can remain in front of the mob, and there are quite a few examples of countering, cleaving, or gaze mobs that you'll want to avoid.

With the stupid amount of tp we gain now, losing nfr is not that tragic imo.