Sigurd's Descendants: The Art Of Dragon Slaying.

I don't think he means it's an issue like difficult to do. It's an issue in that the spreadsheet will over-report it a bit.

It would be accurate for something like a HELM, where you start at 3K TP and the fight is over in under 3 minutes. But take this month's ambuscade for instance, with 8-10 minute fights.

When you put AM3 on the spreadhseet, it assumes it's up, and then it assumes you Stardiver every 1k. However, in reality, when AM drops you are storing 3k TP and using a Camlanns, where the spreadhseet math would assume you did 3x 1k Stardivers. Sekkanoki minimizes this but the concept still stands. Thus the "issue" is the spreadsheet would underreport a real world scenario where AM has to be maintained.

Now, this can actually be done on the spreadsheet using like a 15/345 split...but most people don't use it that way, and Austar does not like how it handles that math.

Taking one instance where the fight is exceedingly longer isn't the optimum scenario here, once you average out all events across endgame that stance doesn't hold any merit and like you said if it can be done on spreadsheet this makes it even more trivial.

I don't have the time to cater for "what someone likes or dislikes" mate!
Catch you in game today~
Edit: You can still keep AM up almost instantly with all that debate, 2-3 seconds won't make it significant to even debate over.

It does if the initial lead is marginal in the first place.

the problem with the spreadsheet's way of doing it would require you to change your options with every single buff and gear change that includes store tp and any form of haste and multi attack. do you do that? a simulation will so all you have to do is change the gear and buffs

I think you're just upset your weapon isn't as good as you like to think

the hierarchy you listed is exactly what we already knew...

trish and rongo are fairly even and situational, followed by gungnir, ryo not worth the investment.

the one i listed is not the same, people are claming rho is better by a good amount when in practice, it really isn't. it's still a good weapon, sure, but trish is almost always better

Spreadsheet is an estimation tool, and valuable as such. If you can't take the information in context, you shouldn't be using it at all.

A 3% lead to rhongomiant on paper is easily negated by putting AM up. Keep in mind that 5 seconds of downtime is 2.7% of cycle down. 3 stardivers wasted with a 6 second ws average is 10% of your stardiver damage lost.

A simulation is not necessarily perfect either, but the open ended design allows you to continually improve it and it has the capability to become as accurate as the designer takes the time to implement. Spreadsheets have built in limitations that will never let them become more than an estimate.

And whether the results are what you hoped or not, it's still another tool to use to help make gear sets.

Speaking of sets, anyone have a starter, basic and high end set for Tp and ws for any normal use ws they can refer me to? Cant pull up older pages atm phone being problematic.

Where was that even mentioned, show me where anyone claimed that Rho is far beyond Trish! you're just fabricating claims that simply do not exist, so drop this attitude of strawmannirg things here.


Not even remotely true, very satisfied with the outcomes and its a great weapon regardless of how you "feel" about it, Facts remain facts and this weapon along with Trish are the best period.

if you're a fan of the job i don't see any reason why you should skip this weapon so please spare me the drama of me being upset over a weapon that clearly is great on all possible measures haha.
Edit: Again you managed to prove absolutely nothing based on the original argument and order of weapons.

Spreadsheets were not the only sources provided over the Rho discussion, and I think by now everyone knows the limitation of spreadsheets (no one denies that) yet after the simulation was conducted it still predicted the same margin of superiority between the two weapons which is in fact 2-4% (same as it was in field) and in certain scenarios they both came out equal, so whats the problem here? the original argument was to debate if Rho is worth making and I don't see any reason why it shouldn't based on various pieces of information gathered and simulated as well.

The variations between the two are really marginal/situational yet it doesn't negate the original concept of the argument that Rho is indeed a solid weapon and should be strived for.

you should skip it because 250m & 60+ hours has potential value in other places and for a trishula owner, there's essentially no situation where you would prefer rhongomiant

if you can't get a trishula, it makes more sense.. but if you can't even get any of the aeonic done you could still farm beads in less than 60 hours and buy the entirety of NM kills for 250M on most servers.. so everyone can get one for less work than rhong anyway

That is absolutely reasonable for players who are not fully dedicated to being a DRG but we both know its not the case here, show me a SAM or a WAR that doesn't have more than one REMA? why DRG should be treated differently.
Besides Rho is the best looking and best AG between the 4.
Edit: I have to add that your argument is 100% correct for all Empy weapons yet you find people going after them - which is fair imo-

SAM and WAR have different REMA because they have different uses. Masamune is better than Doji in full zerg situations. Doji is better in most other situations.

WAR has different weaponskills and SC opportunities for each of their weapons. GS vs GA is influenced by buffs/ratio.

There is no place where Rhongomiant is outright superior to Trishula. The only reason for a Trishula owner to make Rhongomiant is cosmetic(whether for your character's appearance or your profile's).

Lets not forget that outside of the spreadsheet, just spamming Stardiver will be able to close for many more weaponskills(due to having the darkness property instead of just gravitation) and get the aftermath SC bonus. Even if you aren't paying any attention to skillchain opportunities or making actual Umbra skillchains, that's an additional damage boost not being considered every time your WS lines up.

That can be challenged easily and in certain situations Rho will beat Trish by 5% making it a solid option to be used.
There are other uses to it which clearly stems from its 50 VIT; thats 75 more DEF instantly making things way easier in dire situations. not to mention critdmg reduction and it even makes jumps more damaging.


Edit: on HELMs (worm for example) if you have a party of WAR DRG would you rather use Camm from Rho or from Trish? since it doesn't sc with Reso spam, which will be more feasible to use?
All Im trying to point out here that Rho does have its uses/benefits and it shouldn't be dismissed based on obtainability if you're dedicated to it.
I have yet to see a single complain from a Rho user.

What situations? Are they comon place? Are they something solo or in group?

You're twisting facts to suit your conclusions, rather than drawing conclusions from facts. You're clearly not an idiot, step back and look at the truth.

I edited an example in the previous comment, take worm from HELMs and compare them, Rho will pull ahead in that fight by that margin mate.

Edit:
Also This

1 situation without any facts to back it up, can not be taken as fact. As well as the total fact of a Sandworm's mechanics being Phase based.

Please give another realistic example.

That's reaching, incredibly hard. If you want to spend 250M and 60 hours of your life to cut 10 secs(being generous) off of a single fight you'll likely repeat no more than 20 times, I suppose you could argue that Rhongomiant is the best weapon for Onychophora on DRG. A decent counterargument would be that FFXI has 22 jobs and DRG is far from the best choice for Onychophora.

You're not being realistic, and that's your choice. You sunk the cost already and want to feel it was worthwhile, that's fine. Advising anyone else to make it is somewhere between foolish and malicious.

Sidra was there during the test on Worm, he can confirm it if you're that interested.
Average Reso: 37k with +1 argosy
Average Camm: 22k with Rho and spikes to 25k

I see Rdm and Blu blow those numbers away every time we do that damn Sandworm, 30k Savage with spikes up and over 45k as far as I know neither have +1 sets for WS and since I'm the tank I see these numbers both heal and hurt the NM.

Do you need to tell me that it takes longer to build an empy than any other weapon? if you have the gil for it (same as any other weapon you want to get) it shouldn't account for all that Time investment that you're trying to show.

The only downside was farming chloris which Ive seen some players pay for its pops and finish in 3 hours!

I don't see your premise as a threat to the obtainability of the weapon and if anyone wants to go after it, it shouldn't be discouraged to do so because all data so far point out to its solidity.
FYI not all have access to Aeonics too~ listing the options for DRGs is as pointless as actively calling for getting it.

All Im saying its a very solid option for various reasons and shouldn't be dismissed and not because i made one, because facts point out that it is a really solid weapon.

whats your point?
you wanted an evidence, there it is? why straw man it?

Actually we managed to cut fight by half with Angon usage and one GEO Idris btw (we usually have 2) especially under 10% it went way too fast than before.
Total number of anagons used: 4 with the last one reset from random roll

you said a 5% benefit to the drg, if you're using 2 roughly equal dps and the fight is 6 minutes you're reducing fight duration by 1 - (1 / 1.05) / 2.. or 2.38% 360 * .023 = 8.28 sec, so not even 10

and that's assuming the dragoon and warrior are equal, realistically the drg is less than half of the total damage

you can't credit angon's contribution to your rhongo, you could do the same thing with camlann's on trishula..

Point is, Numbers mean nothing with out proof. You always assault people with words. I hope you realize you are the bully here.

Angon was mentioned to point out why we use DRG instead of lolBLU on Worm.

Where is the evidence that DRG is half of total DPS than a WAR (thats new to me)

The example mentioned was to point out the idea of exploiting Rho DPS and AG to benefit this long *** fight, you can't simply deny how AG affects the corse of fight sometimes and you can't deny that using Rho for Camm is better than using it on Trish.

We try our best to cut times of fights and I know its not the only option but it is one of them.

eventually to each his own and each group decides whats best for them, some use BLUs others use SAMs and many use WARs DRKs. and We would rather use WARs DRGs [as simple as that]

I don't understand your point still, unless I'm missing something you're comparing oranges to apples here with your SB spam.
The example was mentioned since you asked for it and numbers were only informative and not the core of the topic here, the topic was to utilize Rho DRGs on this fight and how beneficial across other options it will be (Time Wise).

So I still believe that while Trish is the overall best weapon, Rhon has a slim margin in max buff with COR 3k TP starts where AM does not need to be maintained. That is what the spreadsheet told me, but it also makes sense with my own logic. One reason being that Samurai roll generally drops Rhon's 5hit to a 4hit, but does not make Trish's 4 hit build a 3hit.

I am close to AG'ing Rhon, and I am comfortable with my DRG alternating between Gungnir and Rhon depending on the situation.

Aeonic's are precious to me. I have the Dagger, and just started working on Marsayas. Hell, I had been sitting on Schah for like 2 months until some nice dude on my server let me join his crew and finish the dagger off for me. I certainly don't want to have to rely on him again. I may only have 3-4 Aeonics by the time this game dies, and I would rather use them on other jobs as I am not in a linkshell that just churns them out in short durations. I play 5 jobs and while I consider DRG my main, I pride myself on having every job relevant and playable (my own skill and knowledge of it, combined with gear) in the content even if it's not perfect.

I would like to think that I have a very deep understanding of the weapon I will be getting and it's strengths and weaknesses, as well as the in game time and effort it has taken me to acquire. It's my decision, and I am comfortable with it.

I think you guys are going a little crazy with this debate. It's really hard to determine what other players should be doing with their time. We all value different things and may be entertained in slightly different ways. For anyone considering making one, there is plenty of good info and discussion in this thread and the other to read through and make a decision for themselves.

At the end of the day, it's a very strong weapon. I am happy with my decision to make it, and am looking forward to seeing it churn out some big *** crits. I sign in to this game most days and enjoy the heck out it, and I think most of my friends would agree that I add value to their parties and help with our successes. I don't think they consider me a drain.

Am I dumb? I guess that's everyone's call to make on their own. But I certainly don't feel that way.