Low Man Delve Discussion

Reaching hard

so piercing damage and evasion down aren't assets? enmity management isn't nice while counting exuviations, and i bet steps are useless too?

cor does steps, sam does piercing damage, and you manage enmity with the girth of your dps

And you can just have your entire party lump up on top of the moth for the first 20 seconds of the fight so it doesn't run anywhere

On Muyingwa, what move is most likely to result in a wipe? I've heard there's a weakness move and a 50 dmg per tick poison, which combined would be bad. But, does it even compare to Tojil or Dakuwaqa in the "huge spike damage ws" category?

On the bee is sam only effective if they have bow as well? Or would 3 monk 1 whm 1 brd 1 cor be fine?

A THF *can* work but a DNC can attack faster to help strip bee shadows, gives everyone else 10% JA haste instead of 5%, and can burst aoe heal everyone for 650+ to counter the poison or help heal anyone else that gets low hp from things like its aeroga spells.
Fandance'd dancer also wont die to the conal and single target physical moves with knockback cause they can surpass the PDT cap for quite a few hits even if hit with incisive apotheosis weakness.


When I go cor, /dnc is definitely the way to go, you get samba and step duty, requiescat on some of the NMs and I just melee TP on the bee until I can Last Stand

DNC is usually better then THF, but both are better then MNK due to piercing weakness. SAM is a toss up, Yochi SAM's are rare and without that the need to use a 117 Polearm. Bee is about throwing as much 119 piercing jobs as you can with a Req thrown in. The biggest hurdle now is everything thinks the 6 man is "easier" then the 18man and those who didn't get the KI before think they can bring their gimp *** DD into there and win, and they don't.

That's definitely false.

Some creatures in dynamis and abyssea do not follow this rule. Many NMs that fly do not follow this rule.

the question was "can you win with a thf", the job isn't dead weight, it's not the ideal job, but it is an asset.

There's no benefit to bringing a thief. It works, but it is not an asset.

pretty much, though Sam is pretty good on Tax'et with Kasha spam to force Exuv. If you're going to use that set up you might want to take 2 MNKs and a DRG.

I would love some advice on how to finally get the win as I really love drg and upukirex seems like a necessity. Here are my experiences:

1st Run:
2nd Run:
3rd Run:
I admit the dmg from my drg is subpar on the bee since I'm missing upu(have to sacrifice gear for more acc) and it may be the reason we aren't beating the bee or nms fast enough. I was thinking about bringing a 7th DD and having the sch be in 2nd pt alone. What would you guys recommend?

Scorp shouldn't be messy with blus, make one of them (if you have 2) pop the new 1hr around 53% and just chain terror it, it should be a breeze. Same can be done on mastop too to save time and stop it from doing nasty stuff.

I wouldn't bring 2 BLUs in there with 3 DD slot, unless they are really, really HQ BLUs they probably don't parse well enough and a generic MNK may perform better.

The question is, what's taking so long? 10mins when you get to bee is very slow, even with old 18 man PUGs groups get there typically around 22mins-30mins into the instance max. You need to cut down the time somewhere. If you're taking a long time on mastop you might have a problem killing bee as well since they have similar mechanics, which might means you're too low on fire power, in which case bringing in a few more DD might help, or is accuracy a problem? might want to run a parser and check your accuracy, this case maybe bringing in a cor or a geo might help.

I went in with myself and my wife, who was tri-boxing. We were doing the Bee.

SAM/RUN (me)
PLD/WAR
BRD/WHM
WHM/SCH

First run was no bead. We managed to kill all 5 NMs, but had trouble with with the scorp and moth being ***. Killed all 5 NMs with 5 minutes left, ran to Muyingwa and got him to first Whirlwind aura and timed out.

Second run a plugged a few beads in so we could *** around with Muyingwa. The problem we encountered is I couldn't really drop the whirlwind Aura in a timely manner. Just how much Ice Damage do you need to drop that aura? We timed out with it at 20%, which was sad because once the aura dropped, she went down to the next stage within a minute or two.

Thinking of making the BRD/SCH to spam blizzard to help out with ice damage on shadow mode. How bad would resists be with ilvl staff and dark arts?

I also could look into actually bringing a lunge build on SAM. Can a /RUN deal enough damage with Swipe/Lunge to drop the aura efficiently?

i've never seen the aura drop before the shadows were removed personally

Tried a shout for bee and it has been difficult to find the right players to join.

Is there a setup that would give the best chance to win in a PUG scenario? I can get monks with oats fine but any other DO that is well geared is NO BUENO.

can a DRG with eminent weapon be Effective?
Can a 2 song bard be good enough?

I myself can COR BLUE MONK my Sam is almost done with relic bow pretty much only job I can't do well is whm or BRD since my skill levels are far from cap.

So again what is the easiest setup for a PUG group?

apex/namas sam is extremely potent there if you can get any of them, though apex requires much higher buffs

Been trying for Sams most who ask to join don't even have a good GK. Yesterday I had a Sam wearing a Hagun. I really should consider server hopping.

Come to lakshimi I'll get u into my shell

Setup suggestions only go so far, if everyone is subpar you're not gonna win. Eminent drg i don't think is worth the effort, personally i don't believe angon is important enough to waste a DD slot on unless the drg himself can pull out decent damage. They can parse well if they play/equipped properly, but majority of the drgs out there (esp if they're wielding eminent lance) they are probably not going to do very well and you're probably better off with an oat mnk.

2 songs can be good enough if your DDs are good enough. It's always a balance of scale, if your DDs are on the weak side then obviously more buffs will help your kill speed. Easiest setup is with samurais that has rng ws build.

Evaluate what is wrong with your losing runs (lack of fire power, DDs with low acc, sucky whm, sucky bard, etc), and improve upon it

If you only care about the win and want to use bead, by far the easiest setup for bee is something like:

pld pld brd geo whm sch
rng rng rng rng brd cor

bead: scrop/moth/gnat

No rotation needed, even random pug I went to can't lose with that setup; just make sure rngs got at least eminent wpn.

If your rng is good/maxed on gear, 1 rng is enough to kill chapuli/butterfly and bee under 45min but with pug I'd get at least 2 relic rng or 3-4 117wpn rng.

Geo and sch aren't really needed; 2nd pld can be any job but it's easier to find a pug pld that don't die than a pug dd. If you rotate, I wouldn't suggest it on a pug can drop a brd.

The pug pool is not that deep to get 2 pld and 3 capable rng. Every night its same shouts AA fight 5/6 NEED PLD. I will work on getting beads hopefully my pugs can kill outside nms.

Could replace plds by any capable DD; but I'd advice shouting longer and getting pld over getting dd unless you know they can tank it.

1 party delve is fun. 3 dds on tojil compare to 6 at 1/3 the hp.

I think that's a little too dismissive. I've parsed #1 on THF in Ceizak wins (18/18 alliance) enough times over other competent DDs that I can't agree THF is "no benefit". In Ceizak, a well geared THF is a legitimate DD option, period. If you have full selection of every DD, maybe you can build a better "ideal" party with equally well geared DNC, DRG, Yoichi SAM, etc. But THF is certainly no slouch, and if anything, it's better than some jobs people do commonly bring without much complaint (like MNK, non-Yoichi SAMs, etc.)

To be clear, I am talking about Ceizak only. We'll see on the new zones, but Marjami in particular seems like it might also end up as a very piercing-friendly zone.

Having a very hard time getting Muyingwa clear. I'm going to go home today and shout for this setup as mentioned above. I just have a question about the final boss fight, with the 2x relic bow sam, do they actually engage or are they shooting from afar with only the BLU up on Muyingwa. I only play support jobs and i don't really know, but i want to have a good idea of the actual strategy of killing it before going in... Any help here guys would be great.

SAM SAM BLU BRD WHM RDM SCH ?

They engage, TP on GKT and ws on bow.

I would stick to a sch for stun if it's possible, bee has very fast TP moves and alacrity would really help you on that front. Can get nasty if the weakness/hate reset move goes off.

We typically go with {sam sam drg, sam blu drg, sam blu mnk} brd whm sch.

Great, thank you. I have another follow up question. I play brd, and i'm curious with them in there TP + bow ws, what would the songs be? 2x prelude + atk V for the sam ? or do i cast on them still 2x haste + atk v ?

I would honestly probably pianissmo them after the initial SV N T buffs... to keep range, so each DD could have any buffs really. I guess mainly id wanna know how the main buff before pulling would go and then what's the best for each slot for 3 songs.