Bushido - The Way Of The Samurai (A Guide) V. 2.0

Good point, I was just looking at my sets and I have a nice +2.

Don't really see how Doji's SC dmg increase matters even on 6 steps when can regularly hit 99k on the 4-6 step without it.

A practical example, Doing a 5 step shoha-fudo-kasha-shoha-fudo will see you hit 99k or close to it at the closing two light SCs with masa, assuming good buffs, and good dmg on the fusion before it. How does doji help here. And you have sengikori and hagakure to boost SC dmg further which do nothing if already capping with doji.

It of course depends on the target. If the physical WS dmg is low, doji will pull ahead. Examples are low buffs, Kei etc.

Prime with Mumei out damages both masa and doji on multi steps and has access to both more SC variation and a higher dmg WS.

Doji SCD probably doesn't matter because of the traits/Nyame gear/Mpaca cap as discussed earlier, but if it did have better SCD, here's a hint: a 6-step does 5 SCs, not 1 and not 2.

Not to be that guy, but both Doji and Masa would hit about the same Fudo numbers, see previous graph for example. Doji would do more on Shoha and Kasha and the Distortion / Fusion would be higher though I agree the Light and 2nd Light / Radiance would be 99k regardless.

So a 10% bonus on the first two SCs, which are the weakest ones, out damages everything else. Ok.

And higher Shoha damage, higher Kasha damage, higher Shoha damage. And, quite frankly, it has STP+10 and higher delay, so more TP for all of your WS.

shoha-fudo-kasha-shoha-fudo

This is 5 WS, 4 SC. Of those, all 3 SC will be higher (assuming final one is capped) and 3 WS will be higher. So 6/9 of the WS/SC will be higher with Doji, 1 will be a tie. Considering the extra TP from stp/delay, the Fudos might be higher too tbh as that's not factored in the chart from the previous page.

So we're back to actually fudo with doji is higher dmg now. I mean.. use what you like, not like haven't tested this stuff in real content not simulations or math on the back of a napkin.

Oh now we're back to denying the mechanics of the game.

Which weapon gets more TP per hit, Doji or Masa?

You will always see what you want to see, regardless if it's there or not.


Using your exact example

opening shoha (Doji does more damage)
-> fudo (Doji does 1~5% less damage, +10% more Distortion damage)
-> kasha (Doji does more damage and 10% more SC damage)
-> shoha (Doji does more damage and 10% more SC damage, light will hit 99K anyway)
-> fudo (Doji does 1~5% less damage, +10% more SC but its hitting 99K anyway).

3/5 of the WS has Doji flat out dealing more WS and SC damage, 2/4 of the SC's has Doji dealing more SC damage, the remaining 2 SC's should be 99K. Of the two Fudo's, Doji should deal within 1~4% of Masa, gearswap needs to be setup to swap out Mpaca heads 200 TP Bonus for Nyame's 10% WSD at very high TP values, then Moonshade to Lugra at 2500+.

Now that's just looking at the WS / SC damage, which will favor Doji due to boosting multiple areas while only being slightly behind Masa in others. Total damage will favor Masa as we are still swinging during this entire time and should have double melee damage from AM3 after the 2nd WS if not already up.

Do you typically get 3k TP between WS?

For AM3 application yes since you pair it with Meditate.

Also Doji doesn't get a SC damage advantage outside of radiance.


Edit: SC damage chart was on BGwiki (can't get it to post cleanly)

SC level 2 3 4 5 6
Level 1 = 0.5 0.6 0.7 0.8 0.9
Level 2 = 0.6 0.75 1.0 1.25 1.5
Level 3 = 1.0 1.5 1.75 2.0 2.25
Radian = 1.5 1.8 2.1 2.4 2.7

https://www.bg-wiki.com/ffxi/Category:Skillchain

Not seeing doji hit within 1-4% of Masa's fudos but ok.

Duuuuuh yeah I completely forgot Mpaca head has 10~15% SC damage, was taking into account just Nyame Body/Legs/Feet and Traits.
Well yeah, guess the Aftermath is pretty much completely useless these days.

But back during the previous test it still mattered though simply because you didn't have all these BiS WS options which ALSO have SCdamage+X%


While I'm a Doji-only user, I still stand by my point that I've seen several friends with Masa and pretty much identical WS gear able to oneshot stuff with Fudo that was left with little HP for me.
4% difference? On a hunch I'd say more like 6-7% honestly but I guess 4% could be realistical, if that's what the calculator says I guess that's gotta be it.

Ok, its clear that Masa is still winning 50 pages later.

How about Koga vs Doji for hybrid ws?

Aeonic AM effects are Skillchain Damage bonus, the very first WS in the sequence puts up that AM.

https://www.bg-wiki.com/ffxi/Aeonic_Aftermath

It's 3~10%, but if we're handing out free AM3 on Masa then no reason not to also hand out AM3 on Doji.



You see what you want to see, humans are terrible at eyeballing stuff. We notice the things that affirm our preexisting biases while ignoring the things that oppose it.

https://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/41903/bushido-the-way-of-the-samurai-a-guide-v-20/152/#3683225

Using the same gear set, we get 1-4% until we cap Doji's TP at 2050 (950 TP Bonus), then Masa will keep going up but Doji won't since it's already capped. This is where having logic in your lua that distinguishes this and swaps out Mpaca head and then Moonshade for Doji.

I suspect your WSing with Masa at 3K, then WSing with Doji at 3K, both using the same TP set, then announcing "see Masa wins".

Since I write my lua's this is how I do it, other people may have different implementations. This method also works for switching gear out for Masa at 2550+.

At the start of precast we stablish non-changeable TPBonus


Then in the Fudo specific WS section.


I think Lugra +1 beats Ishvara in that second slot, and I use 2900 because at 2750 moonshade still gives some value.

Think this is in reference to swapping the heads at high TP? Nyame has 5 and Mpaca has 15, which doesn't really matter since your only swaping in when your TP is so high that the resulting SC is going to hit 99K either way. Every other time, Doji gets it's AM and the 15 SCD from Mpaca.



Humans are horrible at eyeballing stuff, also remember the context, with the same gear. If this is Seg Farm, what is likely happening is they are charging to 2500+ TP while Doji is effectively capped at 2050TP without TP based swaps. That used to be a common thing but not sure if the common lua's going around support it. If someone was Fudo spamming in segments then just use Masa, higher melee hits and higher damage ceiling on most commonly used luas.

Correct but it doesn't exceed the 50% cap that is already achieved in your base WS set.

Nariont posted this last page for reference and I quoted it above:

24% in traits and gifts, nyame leg/body+ mpaca head is another 28% so you're already over the 50% cap, so unless im mistaken the AM is worthless beyond giving radiance access

Lugra/Kasuga+1/2 would be ideal for 2900+ TP paired with Nyame.

Aeonic AM skillchain bonus is the same as skillchain bonus from traits/gear, so the extra from the aftermath isn't relevant with current gear options.


Is this with or without meleeing for TP on that target? AM3 helps me getting some stuff to a point where I know my Fudo will take care of the rest.

Ah I had forgotten about the 50% SCD cap, then yeah all it's doing is ensuring your still at cap when you switch out to Nyame Helm at high TP. Going from Mpaca to Nyame on head slot you lose 10 SCD, leaving you 8 from cap, which Doji's AM fills up.


Hmm didn't remember Kasuga +1, 3% WSD and more TP return look nice, wonder how that compares to 8~16STR and 8~16DEX (utu)?

Having to add a time of date check wouldn't be hard to do, but might be beyond what most think to do.

I barely use Doji tbh. have all GK R15 (cept prime obviosly), masa its my bread and butter, rather double light than swapping to doji for radiance, and for hybrid spam i like koga better than doji. i still carry doji and SU5 on me but never use them. shining one has more uses to me XD, amano its happily collecting dust in my mog house.

This is actually pretty surprising to hear. I only have Doji and Masa both R15, but I use the Doji 95% of the time. Seems rare there isn't a time you can't abuse hybrids which far outpaces Fudo spam.

You are correct that Doji is better for hybrid spam, but it's "easy" to get so people treat it like the plague and don't want to be caught using it.

Personally, I switch between Masa and Doji pretty regularly in segment farms depending on the mob and what floor we're on. While I'm definitely guilty of eyeballing more than mathing, I think Ephramad's Ring and hybrid selection have made the biggest difference for me in terms of damage output.

While I only have stage 3 Kusanagi at the moment, I'm very excited about getting to utilize more of that sweet, sweet PDL in the future.

EDIT: Thinking about this conversation more, it's helpful to remember that damage potential doesn't always exist in a vacuum. The party dynamic is going to precede everything else to a certain extent and big things like SV/Crooked Cards alongside smaller (but still extremely potent) things like Banishga, Diaga, tank gathering/mob placement make a huge difference... I've sharpened my blade in pugs and, while SAM probably suffers less from an "unoptimized" party than other jobs (just because we're so freaking fast at TP gain regardless), all of those factors add up, especially when it comes to doing a 40k Koki VS unleashing a nice 85k+ Koki on undead in a good group, for example.

I do abuse Hybrids, but i use Koga for that

edit: I went and re-read my prior post lol, yall asuming i dont use hybrids made me doubt, but no, there is me saying i do XD.

Out of interest, what content other than Sheol farms and Dyna wave 3 does everyone use hybrids on.

sortie,omen and its great for MLs.

Sortie what, basement bosses?

i'd like to say that hybrid still caps damage at basement, but I prefer to multistep down there.

I haven't seen it cap on basement bosses, you using GEO buffs?

Upstairs its easy to cap with Masa or Doji.

Would depend on the boss, they all have different resistances and some quite severe. Koki with the right buffs / debuffs can probably do well on all except D/H.