Bushido - The Way Of The Samurai (A Guide) V. 2.0

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2010-06-21
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Bushido - The Way of The Samurai (A Guide) V. 2.0
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By CerberusFreaky 2022-10-04 01:34:46  
is there another guide with more updated gear? or just gotta go through all the pages to search?
 Asura.Jinbe
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By Asura.Jinbe 2022-10-04 02:14:12  
BG wiki Bippin guide
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By CerberusFreaky 2022-10-05 01:08:03  
thks
 Asura.Hortalizo
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By Asura.Hortalizo 2022-10-10 07:22:36  
Hello. What set is better now? Full acc or zanshin one?
 Asura.Bippin
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By Asura.Bippin 2022-10-10 09:23:01  
Asura.Hortalizo said: »
Hello. What set is better now? Full acc or zanshin one?
What sets are you comparing?

Also tonight +3 will come out and everything will change.
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 Bismarck.Nickeny
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By Bismarck.Nickeny 2022-10-10 10:00:31  
Asura.Hortalizo said: »
Hello. What set is better now? Full acc or zanshin one?

The only set that matters is the set you make with your friends.
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By Vaerix 2022-10-10 13:40:15  
Asura.Bippin said: »
Asura.Hortalizo said: »
Hello. What set is better now? Full acc or zanshin one?
What sets are you comparing?

Also tonight +3 will come out and everything will change.

So the zanshin set won't really change it will only get stronger because a few posts back we already went over the fact that the set isn't zanhasso capped and only miss hasso capped, so unless they're adding new stats to +3 rather than just enhancing what's there, I don't foresee the Zanshin set changing. But <excitement> new empy+3 stats to oggle!
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 Asura.Sechs
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By Asura.Sechs 2022-10-26 01:36:21  
Anybody managed to solo (completely solo, just you and trusts) 6% damage on Mboze V20?
If so with which gear/trusts/setup?

I assume Yaegasumi of course, but it's "only" 45 seconds, I'm not sure it's gonna be enough to deal 6% damage on Mboze before it expires.

If not V20 which Vengeance level do you think is potentially possible?
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By SimonSes 2022-10-26 03:54:31  
Asura.Sechs said: »
Anybody managed to solo (completely solo, just you and trusts) 6% damage on Mboze V20?
If so with which gear/trusts/setup?

I assume Yaegasumi of course, but it's "only" 45 seconds, I'm not sure it's gonna be enough to deal 6% damage on Mboze before it expires.

If not V20 which Vengeance level do you think is potentially possible?

I think it's perfectly possible, but you need to wait with Yaegasumi until buffs are done, so don't melee at all beside first hit at start.

I would say:
Qultada
Koh
Cornelia
Monberaux
AAEV

Wait for haste II, dia iii and both rolls. Start with Ageha. Eat grape+1 probably. Do Yaegasumi before Ageha, use meditate and spam Fudo from the front.
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 Asura.Sechs
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By Asura.Sechs 2022-10-26 04:36:43  
Fudo? I was more expecting like a multistep, like Fudo > Shoha > Kasha > Fudo or even a 5 step.

Hmmm I really want to try that but I might have to farm some more MM, I only have MM20
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By SimonSes 2022-10-26 04:50:58  
Asura.Sechs said: »
Fudo? I was more expecting like a multistep, like Fudo > Shoha > Kasha > Fudo or even a 5 step.

Hmmm I really want to try that but I might have to farm some more MM, I only have MM20

Nah, Mboze like most A3 has massive SDT and all skillchain damage is heavily reduced, so it's not worth to use worse WSs to make SCs.
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 Asura.Sechs
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By Asura.Sechs 2022-12-09 18:19:12  
Any modern niche use for Dagon Breastplate on Samurai?
I guess SB2 builds, but can you even reach capped SB without Fusenaikyo path B?
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2022-12-09 18:28:57  
Siren's favor will put you at the cap.
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By Serjero 2022-12-10 03:52:26  
SAM can get to 70 SB without using Su5/Siren's Favor. You can hit 20 SBII from Dagon, Mpaca's Legs, and Niqmaddu Ring. So 5 away from cap which is pretty good.
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 Asura.Sechs
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By Asura.Sechs 2023-01-09 05:41:28  
Still on the topic of Subtle Blow for SAM I was thinking about this set

ItemSet 389364

A few slots are blank because I'm looking for opinions.
I'm tryin to create a set that doesn't have to depend on buffs from other jobs (Siren's Favor, WHM's Auspice etc).
With the above set we need ~16 SB to reach the amount of 70, which is the max amount SAM can achieve atm with current gear, not including Fusenaikyo of course (Divergence Weapon).
Out of these options I think Combo1 is the one that presents the least DPS loss possible, opinions?


Did I forget to account for anything else?
Hands slot has some interesting options, like Kenda+1, but I felt losing the Hasso bonus completely (attack delay cap) was too big of a loss.
There's a few SB+5 back options as well but they're all old and don't seem worthy over the Ambu Cape. Now if there were SB+10 option to put in place of STP+10 for Ambu cape... but alas that's not the case.
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By SimonSes 2023-01-09 07:04:54  
Asura.Sechs said: »
I'm tryin to create a set that doesn't have to depend on buffs from other jobs (Siren's Favor, WHM's Auspice etc).

For what?

Doing any setup like that without SU5 seems pointless. Masamune will never make up for the loss of all this DPS in gear, especially in WS set. For some reason people forget about SB in WS set. There is no point in reducing your TP set feed to like 27TP per hit, when your WS will feed 100TP. You should also maximize TP per hit, so you maximize dps per TP feed (because most of your damage comes from WS). In other words you want to mizimize TP feed in whole WS cycle, not only TP feed per hit, so ideally max storeTP and Hassozanshin.

ItemSet 389365

This set is 75% and maximize TP per hit and doubles up as hybrid set (you can switch to ambu cape with PDT if you need it to be even more hybrid).

ItemSet 389367

This is 72%SB (close enough) WS set, that still keeps as much damage as possible and even has some DT/PDT.
 Asura.Sechs
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By Asura.Sechs 2023-01-09 08:40:22  
SimonSes said: »
For some reason people forget about SB in WS set. There is no point in reducing your TP set feed to like 27TP per hit, when your WS will feed 100TP.
It's true that people tend to forget that, but it doesn't mean that it's necessarily pointless.
It depends, I would say?

Anyway you're treating WS TP fed as if it counts the same as the TP fed during melee hits.
That's not true though.
Let's define a "full round" as the melee hit of the WS, then the number of melee hits to reach at least 1000TP.
This will change greatly according to several variables but for the sake of making an example let's assume 3 hits + 1 WS hit = a total of 4 hits.
Melee hits in this scenario represent ~75% of the TP fed to the monster, while WS is ~25% of the total amount.
This means that greatly reducing the TP fed during that 75% can be meaningful.

Examples for the above case, ignoring dAGI of course and assuming:
Scenario1 (no SB, TP&WS), TP fed in a full round ==> ~444
Scenario2 (70 SB,TP only), TP fed in a full round ==> ~204
Scenario3 (70 SB, TP&WS), TP fed in a full round ==> ~134
Scenario4 (75 SB, TP&WS), TP fed in a full round ==> ~111

So using 70% SB just in melee, is still a pretty big reduction in TP fed for each full round (over 50% reduction).


Now there's two things that I haven't considered: Ikishoten and the fact that getting 70% SB without Fusenaikyo, requires a big loss in STP. This MIGHT raise the number of attacks in a "full round" to reach >1000TP.
Calculation using precise STP values would be required, but I can see two outcomes already:
1) Can still reach 1000 TP in the same number of attacks
2) It takes 1 more melee attack to reach 1000 TP.

In the first case, then I'd dare say that SB70 even just in melee phase can be quite useful for these niche situations.
In the second case, using for comparison the numbers above, with one more attack Scenario2 TP fed number would go up to ~237 TP fed.
It's still decent though, if you ask me.
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By SimonSes 2023-01-09 09:09:49  
Usually you want 75SB builds to be mixed with TP reset to lower TP feed low enough to completely shut down TP move usage. Reducing TP feed from WS cycle by 50% wont usually be enough, especially under 25% HP. If WS cycle is 204 and you can only lets say feed 700TP in 30 sec, because otherwise NM will TP move, then with your no SB WS set you will need to turn around after 3 WS cycles doing no damage and waiting. While in 75SB set you will do 5-6 cycles, doing much more damage.

Asura.Sechs said: »
Now there's two things that I haven't considered: Ikishoten and the fact that getting 70% SB without Fusenaikyo, requires a big loss in STP. This MIGHT raise the number of attacks in a "full round" to reach >1000TP.

It doesn't only matter if you can reach 1000TP. WS damage scales with TP, so it also matters how much TP overflow you can generate to achieve highest damage with lowest tp feed. Thats why Hassozanshin and max store TP build is way better for this.
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By Mesias 2023-01-17 14:19:50  
Honest question, why is coiste bodhar better than aurgelmir orb+1 for zanhasso builds? i tought we wanted to minimize DA procs in favor of TA/zanshin.
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By Taint 2023-01-17 14:34:14  
Mesias said: »
Honest question, why is coiste bodhar better than aurgelmir orb+1 for zanhasso builds? i tought we wanted to minimize DA procs in favor of TA/zanshin.


Its a wash and one is basically free.
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 Asura.Sechs
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By Asura.Sechs 2023-01-24 12:04:52  
Hybrid WS question: what would be the best options in the waist slot after Orpheus?
And in the rings slot after Epaminonda/Karieyh?
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By Izanami 2023-01-24 12:33:50  
Asura.Sechs said: »
Hybrid WS question: what would be the best options in the waist slot after Orpheus?
And in the rings slot after Epaminonda/Karieyh?

  • Fotia Belt

  • Beithir Ring R30 + Niqmaddu

    • These two also show up as "best" if I increase enemy_evasion from 1300 to 1400, even with Epami+Karieyh as options

  • Mpaca Boots R25/R30 are a good swap if you need a bit more accuracy, otherwise use R25 Nyame. They show up as "best" if I use enemy_evasion=1400.

  • Moonshade + Schere R30

    • Swap Schere R30 for Kasuga+2 if you're one of the lucky ones to successfully roll your 0.2% chance at the correct +2 job earring.

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 Asura.Sechs
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By Asura.Sechs 2023-01-24 12:48:31  
I'm a bit surprised at Schere R30 being the second best in addition to Moonshade? I mean, aside from Kasuga+2.
Like... really really surprised.
Is it a matter of acc needs?
Because other than that I really don't understand how Schere could possibly be above options like, I dunno, Thrud? Friomisi?
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By Nariont 2023-01-24 12:52:38  
DA is carrying it
 Asura.Sechs
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By Asura.Sechs 2023-01-24 13:01:20  
Sounds like Bippin has some updating to do on his SAM guide then :x
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By Izanami 2023-01-24 13:02:07  
Asura.Sechs said: »
I'm a bit surprised at Schere R30 being the second best in addition to Moonshade? I mean, aside from Kasuga+2.
Like... really really surprised.
Is it a matter of acc needs?
Because other than that I really don't understand how Schere could possibly be above options like, I dunno, Thrud? Friomisi?

Using enemy_evasion=1000 (enemy_def=1600, with Grape+BRD+COR) to disadvantage the Schere accuracy as much as possible:

Schere R30: 61400 damage
Schere R25: 61245 damage
Schere R20: 61102 damage
Thrud: 61066 damage
Schere R15: 60983 damage
Friomisi: 60972 damage

At attack cap (enemy_def=1000), I see Moonshade+Friomisi (94186 vs 94026 average damage over Schere) and Sroda+Niqmaddu.

Nariont said: »
DA is carrying it
It must be the double attack, with some small bonuses from the augmented attack when not capped attack.

Alternatively, there is an issue with my code, which isn't out of the question. I fix most of the issues by posting sets and people seeing weird results.
 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2023-01-24 13:05:16  
Asura.Sechs said: »
I'm a bit surprised at Schere R30 being the second best in addition to Moonshade? I mean, aside from Kasuga+2.
Like... really really surprised.
Is it a matter of acc needs?
Because other than that I really don't understand how Schere could possibly be above options like, I dunno, Thrud? Friomisi?

Depending on the hybrid used, a DA proc would increase damage from 33 to ~75%.

Example, Kagero is a one hit physical WS with an fTP of 1.0. That damage is then multiplied by the Hybrid fTP value and run through the magic damage formula before being added with the physical damage for total damage. WSD is applied to both the first physical hit and the final damage. A DA proc would double the number of physical hits, though WSD isn't applied to that second hit. Jinpu is two physical hits at 1.0 fTP, each get a DA roll, then the whole thing gets run through the same formula as above.

Basically WSD and multi-attack can have massive impacts on hybrid performance, of course 99K is the limit so we might not even see then full damage potential.
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By Izanami 2023-01-24 13:12:55  
Asura.Saevel said: »
Asura.Sechs said: »
I'm a bit surprised at Schere R30 being the second best in addition to Moonshade? I mean, aside from Kasuga+2.
Like... really really surprised.
Is it a matter of acc needs?
Because other than that I really don't understand how Schere could possibly be above options like, I dunno, Thrud? Friomisi?

Depending on the hybrid used, a DA proc would increase damage from 33 to ~75%.

Example, Kagero is a one hit physical WS with an fTP of 1.0. That damage is then multiplied by the Hybrid fTP value and run through the magic damage formula before being added with the physical damage for total damage. WSD is applied to both the first physical hit and the final damage. A DA proc would double the number of physical hits, though WSD isn't applied to that second hit.

I do see Thrud beat R30 Schere for Kagero 53597 to 53207 damage. Similar for Koki and Goten.

They're all pretty close. I'd stick with Schere for the accuracy if I played SAM, though.

Edit:
Asura.Saevel said: »
of course 99K is the limit so we might not even see then full damage potential.
I don't think I've ever considered the 99999 limit. Notice the distribution plot I posted above goes all the way to ~160,000 damage. Any damage over 99999 is stuck at 99999 in game, but the code is using those 150,000s in the average damage calculation. Thrud (or Friomisi) might be better if you're potentially hitting over cap often and don't need a bunch of DA. But I guess all extra stats have this effect, so it might balance out to essentially no change in the sets and still have Schere win.
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By Asura.Saevel 2023-01-24 13:16:28  
Izanami said: »
Asura.Saevel said: »
Asura.Sechs said: »
I'm a bit surprised at Schere R30 being the second best in addition to Moonshade? I mean, aside from Kasuga+2.
Like... really really surprised.
Is it a matter of acc needs?
Because other than that I really don't understand how Schere could possibly be above options like, I dunno, Thrud? Friomisi?

Depending on the hybrid used, a DA proc would increase damage from 33 to ~75%.

Example, Kagero is a one hit physical WS with an fTP of 1.0. That damage is then multiplied by the Hybrid fTP value and run through the magic damage formula before being added with the physical damage for total damage. WSD is applied to both the first physical hit and the final damage. A DA proc would double the number of physical hits, though WSD isn't applied to that second hit.

I do see Thrud beat R30 Schere for Kagero 53597 to 53207 damage. Similarly for Koki and Goten.

They're all pretty close. I'd stick with Schere for the accuracy if I played SAM, though.

The WSD from Thrud should be applied to both the first physical hit and the final damage value.

It's easy to see this stuff, go Kagero a level 1 bunny and notice how low the number is. The bunny dies before the magic component gets calculated so we can see the pure physical component. There is a NM in Zitah that takes 0 physical damage, can see just the magic component (with 0 base damage) on that one.
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