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The mentally disabled state of Texas (Loud and clear)
 Fenrir.Mesic
サーバ: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 634
By Fenrir.Mesic 2013-07-04 21:53:05
Jury Acquits Texas Man For Murder Of Escort Who Refused Sex
A Texas jury acquitted a man for the murder of a woman he hired as an escort, after his lawyers claimed he was authorized to use deadly force because she refused sex.
Ezekiel Gilbert shot Lenora Ivie Frago in the neck on Christmas Eve, after she denied his requests for sex and wouldn’t return the $150 he had paid her, according to the San Antonio Express-News. Under Texas law, an individual is authorized to use deadly force to “retrieve stolen property at night,” and Gilbert’s lawyers cited that provision as justification for Gilbert’s action, reasoning that Frago had stolen $150 from him by taking his money without delivering sex. In a police interview played for jurors, Gilbert “never mentioned anything about theft,” a detective told the San Antonio Express-News. Frago, who was 21, was critically injured and died several months later.
While the shooting of 17-year-old Trayvon Martin in Florida has generated notoriety for NRA-backed Stand Your Ground laws, which authorize the unfettered use of deadly force without a duty to retreat in defense of one’s person or home, Texas’ exceedingly broad law goes well beyond this, to allow deadly force in protection of any piece of “tangible” or “movable” property.
The Texas provision authorizes deadly force not only to “retrieve stolen property at night” but also during “criminal mischief in the nighttime” and even to prevent someone who is fleeing immediately after a theft during the night or a burglary or robbery, so long as the individual “reasonably” thinks the property cannot be protected by other means.
This shockingly broad statute authorizes individuals to take not just law enforcement, but punishment, into their own hands and impose death for alleged offenses that would never warrant the death penalty even if the person were convicted in court. But even in light of the expansive vigilante justice made legal by the statute, it is difficult to see how Gilbert’s behavior was justified, given that escorts are not entitled to deliver sex under the law, and delivering sex for money is an illegal transaction.
サーバ: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 15066
By Sylph.Tigerwoods 2013-07-04 22:12:41
He shouldn't have gotten off, but in all honesty, she had it coming. Don't dabble in a crazy business; shoulda just given him his money back.
Again, not condoning what he did, as I don't think he should have been acquitted at all, but I'm just calling her a *** moron for what she did.
That's like giving someone sugar instead of cocaine and denying them their money back(provided you're not already dead at this point). Of course you're going to be *** up.
サーバ: Hades
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2647
By Hades.Stefanos 2013-07-04 22:16:32
He shouldn't have gotten off, but in all honesty, she had it coming. Don't dabble in a crazy business; shoulda just given him his money back.
Again, not condoning what he did, as I don't think he should have been acquitted at all, but I'm just calling her a *** moron for what she did.
That's like giving someone sugar instead of cocaine and denying them their money back(provided you're not already dead at this point). Of course you're going to be *** up.
He didn't get off, that's why he shot her.
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 188
By Asura.Melbufrauma 2013-07-04 22:19:28
Try to stiff the man, the man stiffs you!
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Bismarck.Snprphnx
サーバ: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2715
By Bismarck.Snprphnx 2013-07-04 22:34:46
Asura.Melbufrauma said: »Try to stiff the man, the man stiffs you!
Well, she might have stiffed him, and chose not to help him get unstiff.
Every state has backwards *** laws still on the books.
Example: In West Virginia, it is legal to have sex with your farm animal, so long as its not over 40 pounds in weight.
Fenrir.Mesic
サーバ: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 634
By Fenrir.Mesic 2013-07-04 22:35:33
He shouldn't have gotten off, but in all honesty, she had it coming. Don't dabble in a crazy business; shoulda just given him his money back.
Again, not condoning what he did, as I don't think he should have been acquitted at all, but I'm just calling her a *** moron for what she did.
That's like giving someone sugar instead of cocaine and denying them their money back(provided you're not already dead at this point). Of course you're going to be *** up.
She of course isnt here to defend herself cause shes dead, but youll take the murderers word for the story i guess too. She had it coming? Yea lets sentence all thieves to death. They have it coming. In America there seems to be this notion, if youre wrong, or did something bad, you pretty much deserve to have your life ruined or be killed. Theres a reason why other countries (even including the UK) make fun of our punishments for crimes.
サーバ: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1119
By Sylph.Safiyyah 2013-07-04 22:44:04
Texas is horrid, news at 11!
I mean seriously, everyone knows that Texas is a nasty place.
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 Cerberus.Pleebo
サーバ: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9720
By Cerberus.Pleebo 2013-07-04 22:45:36
The important thing is that she wasn't a fetus.
 Ragnarok.Zohnax
サーバ: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 545
By Ragnarok.Zohnax 2013-07-04 22:48:28
I don't recall escorts being strictly used for sex, although it isn't out of the question usually. The real world is, people are going to get screwed if they're not careful. (Not always sexually.) "Stolen property." He paid for an escort, not her life. He should have taken his problem up with the company like a decent human being. All this promotes is that it is okay to kill if you say they "stole" from you. Ridiculous murder like this goes unpunished yet someone who wants to share knowledge of educational books to the public will get 40-years.
By volkom 2013-07-04 23:21:48
Texas is horrid, news at 11!
I mean seriously, everyone knows that Texas is a nasty place.
ever been to Texas?
サーバ: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3351
By Fenrir.Terminus 2013-07-04 23:24:05
The part that gets me is that escorts "do not sell sex" - their loophole is already that "money exchanged is for time and companionship only, anything else that happens is between two consenting adults of legal age, and should not be considered to be contracted for. This is not an offer of prostitution" etc etc.
Even beyond that, the law says that the property must not be able to be retrieved by other means. While escort agencies don't necessarily have customer service divisions, they are businesses and I would think that they could be sued. Even if she was independent, she was a person, and could have also had charges pressed.
Just from that, it seems like this law was pretty terribly applied. While it may be too vague or broad, I think the prosecution and jury ought to shoulder a lot of blame in this particular case.
Edit: Although maybe the real issue was that the jury felt too much compassion for the guy, who does remain another human being. A human being that can't even get a prostitute to sleep with him, and a man who has to shoot a woman in order to take something away from her. It might be just me, but if that was my life, I wouldn't really consider life in prison or the death penalty all that big of a deal.
Gilgamesh.Tenshibaby
サーバ: Gilgamesh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 971
By Gilgamesh.Tenshibaby 2013-07-04 23:37:36
Texas is horrid, news at 11!
I mean seriously, everyone knows that Texas is a nasty place. As someone who lives in Texas, I can tell you that you should quit believing everything you hear from the voices in your head.
Fenrir.Sylow
サーバ: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6862
By Fenrir.Sylow 2013-07-04 23:38:06
サーバ: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3686
By Phoenix.Amandarius 2013-07-04 23:52:12
Profanity laced Texas movie quote:
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 Fenrir.Reece
サーバ: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 339
By Fenrir.Reece 2013-07-04 23:53:44
Kinda sounds and feels like getting all worked up by someone and turned on then being locked in a dark room handcuffed.. Leaving you to be mad as hell.
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 802
By Asura.Hoshiku 2013-07-04 23:54:09
Stuck in Texas atm... it's a very different place and in some ways quite backwards. The roads here are horrible and the government is corrupt (of course that seems to be true in most places). Can't wait to get back to the east coast. Also it's very funny because I used to live in Louisiana where apparently nothing was more HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE than a Texan.... seems like the Texans feel the same way about the Louisianans lol.
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サーバ: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 578
By Shiva.Jirachi 2013-07-04 23:55:57
Gilgamesh.Tenshibaby said: »Texas is horrid, news at 11!
I mean seriously, everyone knows that Texas is a nasty place. As someone who lives in Texas, I can tell you that you should quit believing everything you hear from the voices in your head.
Texas can be a nice place, people just want you to believe its a bad place!
Bismarck.Magnuss
サーバ: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 28615
By Bismarck.Magnuss 2013-07-05 00:03:36
It's all the bad press. Sure, there are some morons in office out there, but it's not much better here, or really anywhere for that matter. Texas is just like every other state. There are good people and bad people; smart people and ignorant people.
Garuda.Chanti
サーバ: Garuda
Game: FFXI
Posts: 12102
By Garuda.Chanti 2013-07-05 00:15:26
Look, its Texas.
Not like any place else in the known universe.
Iran comes as close as any and that isn't close at all.
 Caitsith.Zahrah
By Caitsith.Zahrah 2013-07-05 00:19:59
God help me! I wish there was still a down-rating system now!
Fenrir.Mesic
サーバ: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 634
By Fenrir.Mesic 2013-07-05 00:24:56
It's all the bad press. Sure, there are some morons in office out there, but it's not much better here, or really anywhere for that matter. Texas is just like every other state. There are good people and bad people; smart people and ignorant people.
For sure. I usually agree in these types of matters (and do to some respect here) but this i think touched on the core of what a lot of Texas is (or any state), you have a jury (citizens), and a law in the books (justice). And they all agreed on the same stupid thing. Its one small (maybe even) isolated case, but its a lot of varied Texas representation.
They also brought us this, from their leader.
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サーバ: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 106
By Fenrir.Soothsayer 2013-07-05 00:31:01
I'm from Texas, I like it.... go go gun laws?
In all seriousness, I took my CHL class, and they literally said if you shoot somebody, drag them to your driveway to avoid murder charges. I <3 Texas lol.
Bismarck.Magnuss
サーバ: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 28615
By Bismarck.Magnuss 2013-07-05 00:38:56
I'll agree, this is a freak instance. I'm also upset about Texas in regards to their education system and the textbook fiasco. This is a strange case that honestly needs to be appealed.
However, individuals are a bad example. Yes, Texas has Rick Perry and the Bush clan, but New York has Rudy Giuliani, Alaska has Sarah Palin and Wisconsin had Joe McCarthy. We can't blame the state for the idiots that emerge.
Also, wasn't George W from Massachusetts?
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 Bahamut.Kara
サーバ: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3544
By Bahamut.Kara 2013-07-05 01:07:21
double jeopardy, there is no retrial or appeal if found not guilty
Bismarck.Magnuss
サーバ: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 28615
By Bismarck.Magnuss 2013-07-05 01:15:49
And that's why I would make a horrible lawyer.
Bahamut.Kara
サーバ: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3544
By Bahamut.Kara 2013-07-05 01:27:03
Since the OJ fiasco, someone could take him to civil court. One of her relatives, maybe, and try to get money out of him. And that is not considered double jeopardy.
He shouldn't have gotten off, but in all honesty, she had it coming. Don't dabble in a crazy business; shoulda just given him his money back.
Again, not condoning what he did, as I don't think he should have been acquitted at all, but I'm just calling her a *** moron for what she did.
That's like giving someone sugar instead of cocaine and denying them their money back(provided you're not already dead at this point). Of course you're going to be *** up.
He got what he legally was allowed to get. She chose not to do an illegal service (in TX) and he killed her. If he wanted a prostitute he should have gone to Mexico or Nevada.
Are we allowed to kill all people working at a business when we don't get exactly what we want from the store/service/product?
E.g. A person buys a DVD opens it, doesn't like it, tries to return it, but it is aginst public policy to refund money. With the stories logic that means they are stealing the customers money.
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By Enuyasha 2013-07-05 01:37:12
Since the OJ fiasco, someone could take him to civil court. One of her relatives, maybe, and try to get money out of him. And that is not considered double jeopardy.
He shouldn't have gotten off, but in all honesty, she had it coming. Don't dabble in a crazy business; shoulda just given him his money back.
Again, not condoning what he did, as I don't think he should have been acquitted at all, but I'm just calling her a *** moron for what she did.
That's like giving someone sugar instead of cocaine and denying them their money back(provided you're not already dead at this point). Of course you're going to be *** up.
He got what he legally was allowed to get. She chose not to do an illegal service (in TX) and he killed her. If he wanted a prostitute he should have gone to Mexico or Nevada.
Are we allowed to kill all people working at a business when we don't get exactly what we want from the store/service/product?
E.g. A person buys a DVD opens it, doesn't like it, tries to return it, but it is aginst public policy to refund money. With the stories logic that means they are stealing the customers money. Apparently in Texas you are :<
I just think this was a misconception of the judge and the jurors on what an escort actually is....yea we "know" they are eventually just high class hookers in most cases...but that's not their actual job description. But then to claim she "stole" his money for doing her job is what should've thrown any juror into a "what?" state of mind anyway...
サーバ: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6558
By Odin.Zicdeh 2013-07-05 01:45:23
I actually disagree with most people here. According to how this particular law is written, he should have gotten off, and forgive the already overused pun. This is of course assuming we can trust the word of a murderer, which, playing a bit of devil's advocate, is every bit as reliable as a common ***'s anyway. It technically wasn't the "Sex" he was attempting to retrieve according to his testimony, it was the money, which qualifies as tangible property, and I guess prostitution could qualify as "Criminal Mischief". Though when I hear that term, I picture a kid getting both barrels of a shotgun for TP'ing or Egging a house somewhere down the line, followed shortly by an NRA rally.
Now, how stupid the law is, that's a different debate altogether, but it's nobody's fault the Texas lawmakers. (NRA)
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By Blazed1979 2013-07-05 02:47:07
Me and 7 friends did a cross country drive from L.A to Miami. We spent an additional $ 3.5k on lodging and fuel, lost 72 hours all to avoid Texas and Tennessee.
8 brown/wheetish skinned guys driving sports cars through Texas and TE sounded like the quickest way to end up dead.
Someone suggested we bleach our Hair blond and put on Cowboy hats, chew tobacco, to avoid arousing suspicion among the natives.
サーバ: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3686
By Phoenix.Amandarius 2013-07-05 07:52:38
They probably should have just suggested that you get over your own personal biases and perhaps just obeyed the law to avoid getting arrested.
Jury Acquits Texas Man For Murder Of Escort Who Refused Sex
A Texas jury acquitted a man for the murder of a woman he hired as an escort, after his lawyers claimed he was authorized to use deadly force because she refused sex.
Ezekiel Gilbert shot Lenora Ivie Frago in the neck on Christmas Eve, after she denied his requests for sex and wouldn’t return the $150 he had paid her, according to the San Antonio Express-News. Under Texas law, an individual is authorized to use deadly force to “retrieve stolen property at night,” and Gilbert’s lawyers cited that provision as justification for Gilbert’s action, reasoning that Frago had stolen $150 from him by taking his money without delivering sex. In a police interview played for jurors, Gilbert “never mentioned anything about theft,” a detective told the San Antonio Express-News. Frago, who was 21, was critically injured and died several months later.
While the shooting of 17-year-old Trayvon Martin in Florida has generated notoriety for NRA-backed Stand Your Ground laws, which authorize the unfettered use of deadly force without a duty to retreat in defense of one’s person or home, Texas’ exceedingly broad law goes well beyond this, to allow deadly force in protection of any piece of “tangible” or “movable” property.
The Texas provision authorizes deadly force not only to “retrieve stolen property at night” but also during “criminal mischief in the nighttime” and even to prevent someone who is fleeing immediately after a theft during the night or a burglary or robbery, so long as the individual “reasonably” thinks the property cannot be protected by other means.
This shockingly broad statute authorizes individuals to take not just law enforcement, but punishment, into their own hands and impose death for alleged offenses that would never warrant the death penalty even if the person were convicted in court. But even in light of the expansive vigilante justice made legal by the statute, it is difficult to see how Gilbert’s behavior was justified, given that escorts are not entitled to deliver sex under the law, and delivering sex for money is an illegal transaction.
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