The Mentally Disabled State Of Texas (Loud And Clear)

Because imposing laws on the free market is Satan and the reason we are in a "depression" is because government is stifling the free market with their satanic government regulations and the communities,states,country,and the world would be better off if we returned to the industrial revolution mindset of paying people in pennies for literally 24 hours of work and throwing waste wherever we please and putting whatever we want in products. Oh, and then monopolies would pull the economy out of the shitter cause monopolies means moar monehs for the country.

You know, backwards ***like that.

The only reason Louisiana is getting this much action from the producers is because we give them amazing tax breaks and its overall cheaper to film here. We are not "siphoning off" Californian business because these California based production companies still have to pay taxes in both states and they still profit from it which goes to California revenue as well as Louisiana.

Most of Texas' economy is based in the US military and its contracts, without the US military Texas becomes only a small portion of what it actually was, same with Louisiana and its engineering and chemical processing. The southern states are completely dependent on US grants,contracts,and other services which makes it completely impossible for them to separate and retain their current economic statuses, which most people ignore and just believe you secede and BAM insta-first world country.

You are looking for GSP if you want to compare states to countries or you could look at PPP and median income.


Some people don't care until it directly affects them. They would care when we had poisonous air again, or contaminated our drinking water again, or they started getting paid in scrip again.


Businesses do not have faith. They are there to enhance their shareholders and stakeholders profits. Businesses go where there is a stable political, legal, and monetary system. Smaller businesses may "have faith" but those aren't the ones your economy depends upon, currently.

Foreign exchange is all about perception. US is perceived as strong therefore it is strong. Welcome to the free market. The US dollar is the reserve currency in the world today. That will probably change in the future but there is no comparison between a stable country and one that recently seceded. One is significantly more uncertain than the other.


CA would have the same problems if they seceded that TX would have. CA has the most military bases and installations in the US. All those Universities are accredited by US systems and backed by research grants from the US government.


This whole seceding argument is really silly. In reality if one state really tried to do this a lot of businesses in the US and that state would run to the EU, China, or Russia because they are known quantities and would be perceived as more stable. So, basically it would screw up everyone in US.

Because they no longer do those things. They have long since been subverted into political organizations used to support one power structure or another. "Workers Rights" = "Unions" and Unions = death of business's. Unions implemented how they are in the USA bring absolutely nothing of value to a business.

Environmental protection and labor protection are perfectly fine when taken in moderation, they both can maintain a clean standard of living with adequate protections against corruption. When taken to the extreme it becomes poisonous to business's as they both support political groups that seek to redistribute wealth from one group to another in an attempt to make Marx's vision a reality. That's why Hyundai refused to build plants in union dominated states.

Kara

You would be right if US business's were even remotely US. Their all Irish / Dutch business's that maintain a US logo. Apple is more Chinese then anything else now. Global economy's allow a business to pick one country for tax purposes and another to actually sell stuff.

Also you won't hear about the profit centers until LONG after the most profit has been realized. Profits come with risk, being risk-adverse is a good way to have a flat profit growth. Right now the big business's are actually moving to Vietnam. Their government is more accepting of international investment then China's is and cost of labor is lower. You'll hear all about it in the next 5 ~ 10 years.

I didn't say they were risk adverse I said they needed a high risk premium (large return) to invest in uncertain areas and projects. That is two seperate things.

DoD contractors have to be based in the US to receive contracts and deal with ITAR regulations. Or they have to have subsidaries that can prove that they are not influenced by their parent company, if it is based in another country.(edit: there are other things with this, but I'm sure you already know this)

Manufacturing pretty much does not exist in the US. Apple and other countries sell to the US and develop in the US. Then they do a really stupid thing and manufacture in a country that then copies those designs.

Of course Vietnam is the up in comer for manufacturing. We have been going through the developing countries for over 30 years now. Everything used to be made in Mexico, Hong Kong, Taiwan, etc. This is a cycle of industrializing on a global scale. There are several economic papers and theories. kuznetz curve, etc.

China will move towards a service industry in the coming years, and they are to some extent already. They have slowed in growth because of the recession. The countries that were buying everything from them, have decreased the purchasing due to lower disposable income. They are also having to deal with the fallout of industralizing (environment), something they could have learned from previous countries but chose to ignore.

Also, a lot of large high-tech company's are choosing not to heavily invest in R&D right now or innovate but are basically becoming patent trolls. Using the legal system to maintain an advantage over competitors or locking in their customers with DRM, etc.

However, none of this changes what I said about a US state seceding. It would be stupid and harm everyone in the US. Companies are out for shareholders and stakeholders, or there is an agency problem and they are out for their golden parachutes.

CalTech is probably the only one who is heavily federal grant dependent and that's because of JPL. UC Regents is really private university system even though it's labeled "public." CA's public school system are the Cal-States. My point is they most of their funding off alumni and private donations. Additionally, these institutions are making significant funding off their hospitals(in particular UCSF Medical Center, Ronald Reagan UCLA Medical Center, and USC Medical Center). Operating some of the top medical, law schools and residency programs in the nation brings in a substantial amount of money and business. You can not deny that fact.


UC Regents Funding

You saying that TX and CA would have same effects completely disregards the fact that CA has bigger economy. But again this about comparing state economies.

Median income becomes less relevant particularly when there are huge population differences.Edit: I misread this.

Instead of worrying about Texas we should be worrying about how we can convince New Jersey to GTFO.

Median income is more relevant then mean income, which is what is commonly used. PPP would be better, but there are still problems with that measurement. It's why you should use multiple economic measures when comparing, because none of them are perfect and none of them capture all information available.

On to CA seceding. Yes, CA contributes roughly 13% to the US GDP. So what? It would not maintain that in a civil war seceding, or retain those researchers, or retain those businesses. You could argue that it might recover quicker than TX. But like I said, this is a silly argument. It would be cutting your nose off to spite your face.

I was still writing lol. How did this become about CA seceding lol This was all about Tenshibaby's post!

Quicker edits!

Petition for New Jersey to secede from union draws signatures

CA GDP 2011 by Sector
TX GDP 2010 by Sector

Interesting charts.

I wish the charts used the same nomenclature :( Other than that, they both seem similar in how their sectors are broken down, which is interesting. Financial sector, mining sector, and information are the major differences that I see. But the charts are set-up differently.

GDP PPP per capita
CA: 41,336
TX: 40,202

Some states are higher

Because we have not had "at-will totalitarian business enterprises" since the industrial revolution.

You know what, even businesses who don't pollute or run sweatshops are still hit with fines and penalties from the EPA and OSHA. It is prevalent here in Texas. I know because I see the books when I do tax returns for these companies.

For example, I did a return for a medical device salesman. A guy who buys from wholesale and sells it company-to-company. A middleman, not anyone who produces these devices.

I see on his books that there is a 2,500 fine from OSHA on there. I asked him why (because if it really is a penalty, he can't take it against his income) and he said OSHA fined him for selling products that were not made "safely." I asked him where the products were produced, he said in a company in China. You really think that is correct?

I have also seen EPA go after dairy farms for methane pollution. I have seen EPA go after car dealerships for not having any pollution credits. Do you really think this is a business-friendly practice?

OSHA and EPA are good ideas, but, until it is not part of the government, I will never trust them because of the blatant corruption inside both of those agencies.


Nice assumption there pal. Since when, in today's US market or in history, have that ever happened?

Oh yeah, that's right, never.

All you hear is a overdramatized version of the news saying "How bad this company is, they wouldn't allow puppies into the building! They must be an evil company that slaves their workers to death! We must all punish them for not allowing puppies into the building!!!"

I take it that you are against businesses in general. So, why are you here and not in the woods? Answer me that.

Thank god we have these awesome laws and regulations then?

I am against corporate slavery ala industrial revolution style. Corporations with power are uncompromising,unforgiving, and they dont care where they dump their wastes and they sure as hell dont care for paying their workers adequate incomes.

You answer an "assumption" with an assumption, thats great there man.

I mentioned one point in history where we have had mass problems with unregulated industry, the industrial revolution era is the prime example of why we need the regulations we have in that area. Low to non-existing wages, no obligations to safety, no obligations to product safety, no obligations for legal byproduct disposal, no obligations to public health I could literally go on but this is what you want when you choose the free market as your god government.

And maybe there is a reason we havent had that reoccurrence in the modern US business. You know...laws...and regulations...and stuff. Yea, stuff.

And honestly, i see it was my fault now because i should've used the sarcasm tag :|

The South has oil, agriculture, and tourism. It is not all that reliant on the federal government, and in many ways is inhibited by it. There are segments that can't wipe their rear ends without the government holding their free hand, but that doesn't speak to the South as a whole, and generally speaking, Southern people are more independent and self-reliant than the average American. I'm not saying secession would be a good idea, but the way the nation is going it may eventually become the smarter option.

Also, we ARE taking away California jobs in Louisiana. There is no reason to believe that any tax breaks we give would attract someone else if they get taxed the same in Cali. Plus they use a lot of locals. BTW, where in La are you from?

New Orleans.

Your income gets taxed twice from both states...tax breaks in the area you want to film help A LOT in the endgame. Production companies love to cut corners, which coincidentally is why they film here. (also, the whole "Cajun is cool!" trend with the ethnic slurs and ***cause all people from louisiana sound like that ._. and do redneck *** ._. and gators...lots of gators ._. cause ive never actually seen an abundance of gators while fishing...ever ._. Ever ._.)
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The fledgling southern country would have to deal with many factors including losing about to over half of their economy with the withdrawl of US military and government presence. Secession is a joke because people think they will come out the other end a first world country immediately and itll all be amazing. It wont,you'll be a third world country for the longest time.

To be brashly politically incorrect for a second:

If the south were to secede, we be, at least, uneasy with the North, and probably in a vulnerable way consideration military invasion. We'd have state national guards, state troopers, etc, but that would all be in disarray.

Mexico, and the mexican drug trade/cartels would take advantage of a weak moment while Washington wondered what thumb, fresh from butt, smelled like, and spent six months considering whether they wanted to help us, what kind of penalties they wanted to impose, and whether or not we needed to learn a lesson.

Oh diga puede usted ver, por la luz temprana del amanecer

Let's get a few things straight...

1. We have some of the worst abusers of workers right now. Walmart, McDonnald's, etc. If you think that needs more info, try google, the writing is on the wall.

2. EPA fines for dairy farms are not revenue generators like you seem to be suggesting, Methane is 10-20 times more potent as a greenhouse gas than CO2 and Dairy Farms produce ungodly levels of Methane. It's not that the mere existance of Dairy Cattle is grounds for a fine, improper control/disposal of waste is grounds for a fine. Some of the dairy's in Washington have used government clean energy grants to build on-site processing systems that convert the waste into bio-energy to produce power. There are dairy farms that actually feed power back into the grid and produce very little methane.

3. Chinese electronic manufacturing has rampent unregulated fire hazards, no safety devices, child labor, etc. It took international attention for Apple to being to regulate the companies that produce its products. Medical device manufacturers don't get that kind of attention. The only way that we as a society can protect workers here and abroad is to "encourage" companies to practice responsible business. If tax breaks and tarrifs aren't enough, we should be fining companies that continue to use off shore, unregulated companies. How can you expect people here to have good jobs and safe work environments when the product can be produced MUCH cheaper in a country like China not because they have more efficient production methods, but ignore environmental impact, minimum pay, maximum hours, fire escapes, safety devices to keep children from being mamed by unmaintained machines, use toxic ingredients, low quality standards, etc. IDK about you, but when they pull out the defibulator to save my life, i'd hope it didn't cost a child's hand and that the untrained person working 18 hour shifts got the screws in the right holes.

Pretty sure the national gaurd is under the Air Force/Army jurisdiction :< They'd be pulled out in the event of a secession :<

Would totally not doubt the Mexico thing though, i even say that bit.

I think the Constitution imposes censure for "Treason" or "Dissent" (not sure of the actual wording, its something about not being able to take public office or whatnot.) :<

That's really not true. We are not sure if fracking is healthy for our groundwater supply but both businesses and politicians are pushing forward before we know for sure. Then we have the Hinkley groundwater contamination, then there is the BP oil spill, the Exxon Valdez spill, the sugarcane industry in FL, ground water issue in TN (where a TN official said filing a water compliant could be an act of terrorism), and the list goes on.

Businesses and politicians must be forced to do the "right" thing for common resources. Usually the two work together in an unholy alliance >.>


You are familiar with all those companies that had toys made in China that used lead paint, I assume. People got a bit pissed off about that. I would be interested in why he got a fine versus being not allowed to purchase them anymore. Unless it is just a fine he will pay every year? Then I have to agree with you on it being stupid.


Should they go after the cows? :p

Dairy farms are very much methane hot spots. There are ways to mitigate this.


There are regulations that are stupid HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE. For example OSHA trying to regulate a private home when the people who own the house work from home. Or state health departments that don't allow food goods to be sold that were not made in a professional kitchen. I can think of plenty stupid regulations.

However, people have also created this problem with their sue happy mentality. The default assumption is that unless it is clearly marked in triplicate Americans don't know not to do something or where not to put something.

There is a word for that unholy alliance you know.

Home businesses can't be exempt from OSHA regardless of the portion of the private residence they occupy. A home based small engine repair, for example, must still comply with OSHA regulations for PPE, hazardous waste treatment and disposal, and any other regulations associated with high energy equipment, unguarded moving parts, and burning of fuels.

Someone required to provide wheelchair access for thier Ebay business is HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE, though.

There is no such thing as "corporate slavery." Never had, never will.

People accept jobs on their own terms. They are never forced into them, if the pay is bad, then you leave. Simple as that.

I think your blindness to actual situations and your prejudice against the successful is what you are now. You are jealous at people who worked hard to get to the position they are in, you want to be in that position but you are neither qualified nor capable/competent to do so, so you are angry at those who succeed. But that is beyond the point.

Laws and regulations are only good if held in moderation. We have not had moderate regulations in a very long time, and there are more regulations that shut down small businesses more than bad business practices, bad ideas, and overall corruption combined!

I would show you the studies showing that, but you would just refute them, so I won't even bother.

I'd invite you to take an unbiased look at the employment prospects and education options for a prominent portion of the american public. The business practices people are refering to are cleverly some of the only jobs available to those people. "don't like it, leave" is a woefully pathetic arguement when you have a family to feed and no chance of better employment. Let alone the fact that a good portion of these people were hired under a very different situation. My employer offered major medical, oportunities for promotion, education reimbursement, etc when I was hired. We now make 20% less than when I was hired, have an HMO (thankfully I am locked into my medical plan for at least a few more years), I'm capped in my position with no options for promotion even though I possess the required degree, and no chance of higher education or retraining.

You're blind if you think that successful people by default worked hard or that unsuccessful people by default are lazy.

This is what I was referring to. This idea was being banded around in 1999.

I completely agree, there is a certain amount of common sense that needs to be employed, but you can't have a black and white outline that a home business is exempt from certain forms of regulation. Although, I really wish the laws weren't written specifically to give that ambiguity.

Erm, no.

Coal mines used to pay people in scrip, lock the gates to unions, lock the gates to their workers. You had to buy your goods from the company store, rent your lodge from the company, and you were never free of debt.

Do yourself a favor and look into the history of the United States before you go shooting off at the hip nonsensical statements detached from reality. The captains of industry in the late 19th century and their ruthless acquisition of wealth, power and efficiency are a tale of the American inventive spirit and also a cautionary tale about what happens when you play with unchecked capitalism.

There is a reason this country responded to that style of corporate tyranny and demanded their government to do something which resulted in regulations, unions and the dismantling of monopolies. People were subjected to horrifying conditions, starvation wages, environmental desolation and were completely powerless to do anything about it.

In the modern day, the consolidation of companies within their various sectors, the large-scale lobbying power which takes precedence over the commoners needs and the ability to control the media informing opinions that fall in line with a companies interests makes you a slave to corporate interests. Period. The people are losing their voice in government and we're on course to a fascist dictatorship guised as a Republic.


A claptrap if I ever heard one. People accept the jobs available to them based on numerous factors ranging from skillset to geography to social factors and the idea that you can just leave is disingenuous. There are factors far beyond your paygrade that affect the economy and subsequent decisions made by people within in. You know, like the recession wiping your job out and forcing you to go from a college educated job to slicing sandwiches at Subway for subsistence wages.


I don't envy the successful because it's foolish to be jealous of people you don't know. The stress they live under, the burdens of wealth, the insatiable desire to keep a business afloat are all things that can suck the joy out of life much the same way it can give others a sublime sense of fulfillment.

What I do take exception to is blind corporate worship that hand waves the less than spectacular things some companies do to present those fantastic gains in their quarterly reports. Some things are relatively harmless (like reducing the amount of a product you get) but others are morally bankrupt. You know, things like gulag conditions for workers, intentionally using harmful materials, dumping waste in public streams, using dispersants to cover up an oil spill, starting conflicts in other countries to make a profit and subverting democracy with the power of money.

But yes, everyone who speaks out against the corporate gods are just jealous of them. Right.



There are good and bad laws, good and bad regulations. What are moderate regulations to one person are crippling regulations to others. Hell, if we took Tenshis advice we'd scale things back to the days of Andrew Carnegie and John D. Rockefeller.

You aren't exactly breaking new ground when you say that the EPA and OSHA have some bonehead rules on the books.

Not "never", but people thinking we would revert to the previous turn of the century are using straw man arguments. The idea that Walmart or other corporations are running effectively slave labor are spreading propaganda, whether or not they know it. Walmart doesn't pay minimum wage, and it's not as though most of their employees ever break a sweat or even a nail. The idea that asking people to *gasp* show up for work on time even when they aren't in the mood and pay them far more than their market value is "slave labor" is just ignorant rhetoric. People are spoiled, and that is why they think jobs like that are beneath them, yet they are not too proud to sit on the couch and collect checks from the government.

What advice of mine led you to this particular straw man?