Automaton Research Thread
Automaton Research Thread
This in Morimar Delve? That's a far more precise measure than before, so may update the spreadsheets for it.
Armor Shatterer deals 3360 (280 base damage) to rabbits in Saruta
So wait - there's something else going on here
Regardless ranged skill is staying the same and the difference in base damage is 45
which I can't fully account for so I'm missing something in the equation for Armor Shatter's damage
Edit - or I'm just stupid and fail at fstr2 which is far more likely
So wait - there's something else going on here
Regardless ranged skill is staying the same and the difference in base damage is 45
which I can't fully account for so I'm missing something in the equation for Armor Shatter's damage
Edit - or I'm just stupid and fail at fstr2 which is far more likely
It seems there's something else going on with Armor Shatterer's damage - it would be nice to figure it out because it would be a great way to get precise estimate on mob stats
After careful deliberation with Motenten and making sure none of the people in Sarutabaruta are able to level their Rune Fencers
Armor Shatterer is 5 ftp
Armor Shatterer is 5 ftp
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Armor Shatterer
Thanks to Motenten for helping me figure this out!
Armor Shatterer has a 42% dex mod with 5 fTP and uses regular fSTR calculations insead of fSTR2 like a ranged attack (or in the case of automaton ranged attacks both fSTR and fSTR2)
From this the Fugacious Lizard has ~ 214-218 VIT and the Fugacious Eft we don't know but it's at least 230
That aside Motenten determined the VIT of the eft (~134) through the 1.0 pdif spike so it's almost like the mobs are behaving as if they have +100VIT when faced with these WS or we're doing something wrong
It's worth noting that we don't 100% understand automaton damage but I don't think it would be anything to the magnitude of making 60+ str disappear
Thanks to Motenten for helping me figure this out!
Armor Shatterer has a 42% dex mod with 5 fTP and uses regular fSTR calculations insead of fSTR2 like a ranged attack (or in the case of automaton ranged attacks both fSTR and fSTR2)
From this the Fugacious Lizard has ~ 214-218 VIT and the Fugacious Eft we don't know but it's at least 230
That aside Motenten determined the VIT of the eft (~134) through the 1.0 pdif spike so it's almost like the mobs are behaving as if they have +100VIT when faced with these WS or we're doing something wrong
It's worth noting that we don't 100% understand automaton damage but I don't think it would be anything to the magnitude of making 60+ str disappear
It might be more complicated than that. If you look at the data I linked earlier, puppet ranged fSTR caps used to somehow depend on their DEX mod somehow.
The WS correspond to fSTR -12 (eft - floor) and fSTR -9 (lizard) respectively!
But the WS is also not using fSTR2 at least- it's functioning like a regular WS using ranged pDIF
But the WS is also not using fSTR2 at least- it's functioning like a regular WS using ranged pDIF
Wind Wind Fire also pushes AS, perhaps there is a slight AGI mod too?
There is not
Anyone else find it amusing that we abandoned the Alternator thread because it had turned into nothing but Overload testing, and now there's an automaton research thread with nothing but Alternator testing?
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To be fair I'm testing Armor Shatterer!
Okay, good news and bad news.
The good news is that I figured out how Deluxe Animator is special. There's a chance it will give you 1 fewer degree of heat per maneuver when you use it. I get variable overload durations with it and they're low, but never more than 1 degree*(the number of maneuvers) low and not consistent within a #maneuver level. For instance, I observed between 66 and 69 second durations for 6-maneuver overloads, while animator was a constant 70.
The bad news is that I spammed Fire Maneuvers with Deluxe Animator yesterday for quite a while trying to make an overload probability distribution and now it's not as pretty as it could have been.
The good news is that I figured out how Deluxe Animator is special. There's a chance it will give you 1 fewer degree of heat per maneuver when you use it. I get variable overload durations with it and they're low, but never more than 1 degree*(the number of maneuvers) low and not consistent within a #maneuver level. For instance, I observed between 66 and 69 second durations for 6-maneuver overloads, while animator was a constant 70.
The bad news is that I spammed Fire Maneuvers with Deluxe Animator yesterday for quite a while trying to make an overload probability distribution and now it's not as pretty as it could have been.
Overload probability (approximate):
So yeah, it looks like about 1% chance of overload per burden, with an offset of about 25? This would correspond to a 5% floor rate when over the limit, and you know how much SE loves their 5% and 95% rates!
This is from 114 overloads.
Also, made this:
http://wiki.bluegartr.com/bg/Armor_Shatterer
BGwiki is severely deficient in all things automaton due to our lack of Puppy editors, but at least it is a start.
So yeah, it looks like about 1% chance of overload per burden, with an offset of about 25? This would correspond to a 5% floor rate when over the limit, and you know how much SE loves their 5% and 95% rates!
This is from 114 overloads.
Also, made this:
http://wiki.bluegartr.com/bg/Armor_Shatterer
BGwiki is severely deficient in all things automaton due to our lack of Puppy editors, but at least it is a start.
Lakshmi.Byrth said: »
Okay, good news and bad news.
The good news is that I figured out how Deluxe Animator is special. There's a chance it will give you 1 fewer degree of heat per maneuver when you use it. I get variable overload durations with it and they're low, but never more than 1 degree*(the number of maneuvers) low and not consistent within a #maneuver level. For instance, I observed between 66 and 69 second durations for 6-maneuver overloads, while animator was a constant 70.
The bad news is that I spammed Fire Maneuvers with Deluxe Animator yesterday for quite a while trying to make an overload probability distribution and now it's not as pretty as it could have been.
The good news is that I figured out how Deluxe Animator is special. There's a chance it will give you 1 fewer degree of heat per maneuver when you use it. I get variable overload durations with it and they're low, but never more than 1 degree*(the number of maneuvers) low and not consistent within a #maneuver level. For instance, I observed between 66 and 69 second durations for 6-maneuver overloads, while animator was a constant 70.
The bad news is that I spammed Fire Maneuvers with Deluxe Animator yesterday for quite a while trying to make an overload probability distribution and now it's not as pretty as it could have been.
JP strat guide claims +4 acc and +4 macc to your automaton too!
Is this generally correct?
http://wiki.bluegartr.com/bg/Category:Maneuver
Could someone load battlemod and run this script with AF3+2 body or AF3+1 body OR Buffoon's Collar OR AF1/AF1+1 hands on, then tell me how long Overload lasted and how many Maneuvers it took to get there?
Maneuver number will precede overload message.
http://wiki.bluegartr.com/bg/Category:Maneuver
Could someone load battlemod and run this script with AF3+2 body or AF3+1 body OR Buffoon's Collar OR AF1/AF1+1 hands on, then tell me how long Overload lasted and how many Maneuvers it took to get there?
Code
firemaneuver;input /echo 1;wait 12; firemaneuver;input /echo 2;wait 12; firemaneuver;input /echo 3;wait 12; firemaneuver;input /echo 4;wait 12; firemaneuver;input /echo 5;wait 12; firemaneuver;input /echo 6;wait 12; firemaneuver;input /echo 7;wait 12; firemaneuver;input /echo 8;wait 12; firemaneuver;input /echo 9;wait 12; firemaneuver;input /echo 10;wait 12; firemaneuver;input /echo 11;wait 12;
Maneuver number will precede overload message.
By the way we are concerned about the conclusion for armor shatterer due to the weird mob vit assessment.
It's possible we have the dex mod wrong or that Shatterer has a penalty to STR which would not be unreasonable considering what appears to be a rather significant ratio boost.
If people could help out by triggering Armor Shatterer on targets with known VIT and report the damage, auto STR and DEX as well as the mob level and your automaton range skill (verify!)
I know stats are known for lesser + greater colibri, Hpemde, and bluffalo but Byrth may know more targets.
Ensure that your reported damage is acchieved consistently and is evenly divisble by 15 or it is not capped so we can't use the data.
It's possible we have the dex mod wrong or that Shatterer has a penalty to STR which would not be unreasonable considering what appears to be a rather significant ratio boost.
If people could help out by triggering Armor Shatterer on targets with known VIT and report the damage, auto STR and DEX as well as the mob level and your automaton range skill (verify!)
I know stats are known for lesser + greater colibri, Hpemde, and bluffalo but Byrth may know more targets.
Ensure that your reported damage is acchieved consistently and is evenly divisble by 15 or it is not capped so we can't use the data.
Byrth, if JPs are right you will get +5(15) and +40(120) for the increases.
I should just let you use my account to test KKK ;-;
I should just let you use my account to test KKK ;-;
You could really just run the script and screenshot it or something, lol. We need ~one data point to define the values of these things because you (and others) already determined what each of them does.
At skill 363, STR 92, DEX 96 I got 2775/2812 on Lesser Colibri. The 2775s were on the level 65 ones which have a VIT of 55, while the 2812s were on the level 63/64 ones, which both have a VIT of 52. +8 STR on the level 64 ones increased the damage to 2887
So 148 and 150 base damage respectively~
Thanks!
Thanks!
I don't know if this is useful for anything, but I observed something screwy in Apollyon yesterday. Sharpshot's damage was very similar but slightly higher on floor 1 than on floor 2, which based on alleged damage types, shouldn't be possible.
Obviously Sharpshot's RA count as piercing to some degree(extremely evident on typical piercing-weak targets), but either there's some damage type hybridization at work or Apollyon SE isn't as cut and dry as assumed
Obviously Sharpshot's RA count as piercing to some degree(extremely evident on typical piercing-weak targets), but either there's some damage type hybridization at work or Apollyon SE isn't as cut and dry as assumed
Either Armor Shatter's dex mod is negligible (unlikely) or it has a massive penalty to the STR allowed in the calculation or the DEX mod is a function of fSTR.
At one point this morning I randomly shot a carrion crow in Saruta for 243 but it could have been a log error.
I've experienced anomalies like that; ranged attacks dealing ~200 or so damage on deploy when they proceed to do ~700 for the duration of a fight
I've seen some strange numbers as well, such as this one a couple years ago:
Meanwhile, on the same day:
Meanwhile, on the same day:
I have also experienced that effect Kaparu. My theory, although baseless atm, is that the automaton gradually builds up power with the Alternator, the longer it's out.
For example, a few nights ago I was doing tax'et. After all 20 Exuviations, my Valoredge frame was doing 800-900ish String Shredders, then as the fight progressed, using strictly thunder maneuvers for increased double attack rate and DEX, slowly progressed to 1200, to 1500, to 1800ish in increments like that. The standard ranged attacks also jumped in a similar fashion when using a sharpshot frame on the T4 Peiste in Morimar, Wivres in Morimar, as well as a few other mobs in Delve. Accuracy and Ranged accuracy stayed consistently static though.
I've even experienced the same phenomena in Skirmish recently, with a few buddies of mine that invited me to come along.
For example, a few nights ago I was doing tax'et. After all 20 Exuviations, my Valoredge frame was doing 800-900ish String Shredders, then as the fight progressed, using strictly thunder maneuvers for increased double attack rate and DEX, slowly progressed to 1200, to 1500, to 1800ish in increments like that. The standard ranged attacks also jumped in a similar fashion when using a sharpshot frame on the T4 Peiste in Morimar, Wivres in Morimar, as well as a few other mobs in Delve. Accuracy and Ranged accuracy stayed consistently static though.
I've even experienced the same phenomena in Skirmish recently, with a few buddies of mine that invited me to come along.
HMy delve parses indicate a greater than 95% hit rate for sharpshot's ranged attacks.
Could the likely presence of both fSTR calculations in the regular ranged attacks indicate the attacks are calculated as two independent hits with different modifiers that are capable of missing independently but display as a single hit when both connect?
This would explain our inability to model the ranged attacks easily as the split flooring steps could lead to the 2-3 point inconsistencies/jumps we observe.
Could the likely presence of both fSTR calculations in the regular ranged attacks indicate the attacks are calculated as two independent hits with different modifiers that are capable of missing independently but display as a single hit when both connect?
This would explain our inability to model the ranged attacks easily as the split flooring steps could lead to the 2-3 point inconsistencies/jumps we observe.
Fought a mantis last night with shooter - sharpshot frame, while I stood back. Got amnesia off the bat, guess i wasn't standing back far enough. Still killed it with half a tank of hp with no maneuvers whatsoever. Rewarded with a shard. #feelsgoodman. I'll see if I can get the numbers later.
Gonna repost all my crap from the Alternator thread, since I hadn't noticed this thread pop up;
Anyway, Byrth, I remember you mentioning something about an arbitrarily high fSTR being found while I was away, but I couldn't really make sense of what you meant, or find exactly which test you were talking about. I'm still seeing sharpshot's fSTR plateau against bunnies in ronf at dSTR≥101. Also dark maneuver's relevant stat is Max Mp, it's just not as obvious because of how wonky dark maneuvers are in general, relative to other maneuvers.
Oh, and in case you guys missed, it, here's a little bit from the official forums:
Basically, The difference between STR106 DEX96 and STR162 DEX166 was only 27 base damage. I'm not sure where you got a 50% dex mod on ranged attacks, but that doesn't seem remotely close, even with our old testing, and how much SE has messed with automaton ranged damage.
Anyway, Byrth, I remember you mentioning something about an arbitrarily high fSTR being found while I was away, but I couldn't really make sense of what you meant, or find exactly which test you were talking about. I'm still seeing sharpshot's fSTR plateau against bunnies in ronf at dSTR≥101. Also dark maneuver's relevant stat is Max Mp, it's just not as obvious because of how wonky dark maneuvers are in general, relative to other maneuvers.
Oh, and in case you guys missed, it, here's a little bit from the official forums:
Basically, The difference between STR106 DEX96 and STR162 DEX166 was only 27 base damage. I'm not sure where you got a 50% dex mod on ranged attacks, but that doesn't seem remotely close, even with our old testing, and how much SE has messed with automaton ranged damage.
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