IiPunch - Monk Guide
iiPunch - Monk Guide
Mythic is 15-20 % better after the initial gimp WS of AM3 and until ~ 40 seconds where you need to stack TP again. Otherwise it's on par with oatixur. The self skillchain probably partially ungimp the dps loss on the initial WS and the 40 last seconds of AM3, but all in all it's only useful with max haste buffs.
40 seconds to hit 300 tp? Aint nobody got time for dat!
[+]
I have a similar question on iLv 119 Vere vs iLv 119 Relic and Oatixur. Which one is the best among the three weapon choices in Delve? I have Oatixur atm and trying to decide if I should upgrade Vere from 90 to 119 or just make 119 Spharai... Thank you very much.
Rough estimate (because it will vary depending on whether you're capping attack, which penalizes Oatixur and Spharai, or capping fStr, which penalizes Vere): Spharai 119 should be about 5% ahead of Oatixur, and Vere 119 should be about 5% ahead of Spharai 119 after accounting for ODD aftermath. Of course Spharai is also your best defensive option of the three.
[+]
Thank you very much Moten
The OP states Tantra Cyclas are BiS for TP when Impetus is up. Is this still the case? I don't see anyone actually doing it in game, most people wear Thaumas or Cizin fulltime.
Spreadsheets seem to imply on a delve megaboss, it wins with an appropriate setup when Rogue's roll is up.
I Recently upgraded my Spharai to 119, and for some reason had the urge to give Final Heaven a try... and the results were very surprising to say the least..
under these conditions for 1-5 Morimar + Tojil x8 Songs x4 Rolls Boost STR and eating a Hydra Kofte we rinse and repeated 7 times (our delve runs take about 19-22mins)
i was able to come out on top utilizing only Final Heaven which did very very well surprisingly... i was wondering if anyone else has given it a try?
For me it seemed like FH was much more consistent and slightly higher numbers than SS but lower than V. Smite with Impetus up, so VS > FH > SS. . . if anyone else has given it a try please share ^_^ i will post my gear sets if anyone is interested.
Set up for DD PT's were x5 MNKs x1 THF (Hgjpeee 119 Mandau/Thawster)
2 MNKs were using Shijin and Oat
2 MNKs were using V. Smite and Oat
and i was using Final Heaven.
dunno why FH doesn't suck anymore but i guess its a good thing for us all ^_^
under these conditions for 1-5 Morimar + Tojil x8 Songs x4 Rolls Boost STR and eating a Hydra Kofte we rinse and repeated 7 times (our delve runs take about 19-22mins)
i was able to come out on top utilizing only Final Heaven which did very very well surprisingly... i was wondering if anyone else has given it a try?
For me it seemed like FH was much more consistent and slightly higher numbers than SS but lower than V. Smite with Impetus up, so VS > FH > SS. . . if anyone else has given it a try please share ^_^ i will post my gear sets if anyone is interested.
Set up for DD PT's were x5 MNKs x1 THF (Hgjpeee 119 Mandau/Thawster)
2 MNKs were using Shijin and Oat
2 MNKs were using V. Smite and Oat
and i was using Final Heaven.
dunno why FH doesn't suck anymore but i guess its a good thing for us all ^_^
Would you mind doing some testing on it?
Go mnk/thf to a starter area, use Footwork, kill starter mobs to 100+ TP (Footwork makes this faster), then SA+Final Heaven a target. Also make sure you don't do any gear swaps at all to avoid any issues there; just wear your normal WS set + movement feet.
Collect about 25 samples, and provide a listing of all the damage values, plus your gear set. That should let us know if there's been any notable change in the underlying formula being used.
Go mnk/thf to a starter area, use Footwork, kill starter mobs to 100+ TP (Footwork makes this faster), then SA+Final Heaven a target. Also make sure you don't do any gear swaps at all to avoid any issues there; just wear your normal WS set + movement feet.
Collect about 25 samples, and provide a listing of all the damage values, plus your gear set. That should let us know if there's been any notable change in the underlying formula being used.
ok Motenten i will get started on that now.
I got bored enough to do something boring so.....
3648 3519 3607 3533 3497 3605 3511 3554 3607 3607 3560 3589 3661 3512 3508 3529 3546 3654 3525 3556 3508 3582 3556 3504 3630
I only wore Tantra body, Quiahuiz legs and Caudata belt...
I hope this is good enough!
3648 3519 3607 3533 3497 3605 3511 3554 3607 3607 3560 3589 3661 3512 3508 3529 3546 3654 3525 3556 3508 3582 3556 3504 3630
I only wore Tantra body, Quiahuiz legs and Caudata belt...
I hope this is good enough!
Sorry, can you include your total str and vit, too? I don't know what your race is.
[+]
I'm a Tarutaru
Total STR: 98+103
Total VIT: 89+114
Attack: (No Food 1004)
Attack: (No Food or Buffs except Footwork 1089)
This Was the set i used
ItemSet 316303
4130 4032 4174 4101 4209
4110 3999 4198 4001 4222
4015 4004 4168 4018 4093
4231 4227 4064 4114 4069
Outside Bastok Huge Hornets and Tunnel Worms!
hope this helps Motenten
Total STR: 98+103
Total VIT: 89+114
Attack: (No Food 1004)
Attack: (No Food or Buffs except Footwork 1089)
This Was the set i used
ItemSet 316303
4130 4032 4174 4101 4209
4110 3999 4198 4001 4222
4015 4004 4168 4018 4093
4231 4227 4064 4114 4069
Outside Bastok Huge Hornets and Tunnel Worms!
hope this helps Motenten
Deno's data
No DA, so don't have to worry about the extra effect of the Quiahuiz legs.
Start with assuming it has the same +40% damage as the level 99 versions. Factor that out.
Minimum 3.0 damage: 2493 == 831 base damage
Maximum 3.0 damage: 2607 == 869 base damage
Base damage is most likely between 831 and 835.
What current formula predicts:
Skill: 440 (merited) + 242 = 75+3 = 78
Weapon: +116
Max fStr: 8 + (116+3)/9 = 21
Total base damage: 215
WSC: 60% Vit = (124 * .6) * 0.85 = 62
Weaponskill base damage: 277
fTP = 3.0
Final weaponskill working damage: 831
That matches the minimum predicted damage from the test samples. This is also below all the test samples, but not entirely unexpected; 2-hander data collected in the same way, back before the changes to max pDif for one-handed weapons, often had few or no samples below 3.0.
bleusummer's data
Start with assuming it has the same +40% damage as the level 99 versions. Factor that out.
Minimum 3.0 damage: 2880 == 960 base damage
Maximum 3.0 damage: 2979 == 993 base damage
What current formula predicts:
Skill: 440 (merited) + 242 = 75+3 = 78
Weapon: +116
Max fStr: 8 + (116+3)/9 = 21
Total base damage: 215
WSC: 60% Vit = (203 * .6) * 0.85 = 102
Weaponskill base damage: 317
fTP = 3.0
Final weaponskill working damage: 951
That's lower than the tested minimum damage. While there's the possibility of the Quiahuiz legs interfering in the sample, I thought they didn't work on weaponskills, and even if they did it should only be a rare outlier from the DA on Otronif, at worst. The sample data shows a regularly increasing curve.
So, the test sample is showing results that must necessarily have a higher base damage than what the formulas predict. The maximum damage the current formulas allow for is 4193, whereas the highest sample value was 4231.
If the base damage isn't being modified, it's also possible that it's an increase in the relic damage multiplier. However even a 5% increase here (from 1.4 to 1.45) would yield values well in excess of the tested data. Overall, does not seem likely.
As such, either the weaponskill formula has changed somehow (although Deno's data would seem to indicate otherwise), or some piece of gear is affecting the results more than anticipated (ie: some sort of hidden effect). The only thing that stands out as likely in that regard is the Anchoret's Mantle.
The total base weaponskill damage value is most likely between 960 and 969. If the base damage is what's being modified, that's an increase of between 9 and 18 points. Interestingly, Footwork gives +18 damage to kicks while in effect. However that damage shouldn't affect any weaponskills aside from Dragon Kick and Tornado Kick. It also didn't affect Deno's data in that way, so again seems unlikely.
Sort of grasping at straws here, but would you mind doing another test set without the Anchoret's Mantle?
No DA, so don't have to worry about the extra effect of the Quiahuiz legs.
Start with assuming it has the same +40% damage as the level 99 versions. Factor that out.
Minimum 3.0 damage: 2493 == 831 base damage
Maximum 3.0 damage: 2607 == 869 base damage
Base damage is most likely between 831 and 835.
What current formula predicts:
Skill: 440 (merited) + 242 = 75+3 = 78
Weapon: +116
Max fStr: 8 + (116+3)/9 = 21
Total base damage: 215
WSC: 60% Vit = (124 * .6) * 0.85 = 62
Weaponskill base damage: 277
fTP = 3.0
Final weaponskill working damage: 831
That matches the minimum predicted damage from the test samples. This is also below all the test samples, but not entirely unexpected; 2-hander data collected in the same way, back before the changes to max pDif for one-handed weapons, often had few or no samples below 3.0.
bleusummer's data
Start with assuming it has the same +40% damage as the level 99 versions. Factor that out.
Minimum 3.0 damage: 2880 == 960 base damage
Maximum 3.0 damage: 2979 == 993 base damage
What current formula predicts:
Skill: 440 (merited) + 242 = 75+3 = 78
Weapon: +116
Max fStr: 8 + (116+3)/9 = 21
Total base damage: 215
WSC: 60% Vit = (203 * .6) * 0.85 = 102
Weaponskill base damage: 317
fTP = 3.0
Final weaponskill working damage: 951
That's lower than the tested minimum damage. While there's the possibility of the Quiahuiz legs interfering in the sample, I thought they didn't work on weaponskills, and even if they did it should only be a rare outlier from the DA on Otronif, at worst. The sample data shows a regularly increasing curve.
So, the test sample is showing results that must necessarily have a higher base damage than what the formulas predict. The maximum damage the current formulas allow for is 4193, whereas the highest sample value was 4231.
If the base damage isn't being modified, it's also possible that it's an increase in the relic damage multiplier. However even a 5% increase here (from 1.4 to 1.45) would yield values well in excess of the tested data. Overall, does not seem likely.
As such, either the weaponskill formula has changed somehow (although Deno's data would seem to indicate otherwise), or some piece of gear is affecting the results more than anticipated (ie: some sort of hidden effect). The only thing that stands out as likely in that regard is the Anchoret's Mantle.
The total base weaponskill damage value is most likely between 960 and 969. If the base damage is what's being modified, that's an increase of between 9 and 18 points. Interestingly, Footwork gives +18 damage to kicks while in effect. However that damage shouldn't affect any weaponskills aside from Dragon Kick and Tornado Kick. It also didn't affect Deno's data in that way, so again seems unlikely.
Sort of grasping at straws here, but would you mind doing another test set without the Anchoret's Mantle?
Okay Mont I will, which back piece do you want me to use? And should I change the legs also?
Also from your preliminary testing does it seem like Final heaven is a up to par weapon skill to you also now?
Thank you for all the info and help!!
Also from your preliminary testing does it seem like Final heaven is a up to par weapon skill to you also now?
Thank you for all the info and help!!
You can replace it with a Melee Cape to keep the same total Vit, or just remove it altogether.
As for being up to par, I can't say that either. Even with a boost in base damage, it still seems like it would be weaker than either Shijin or Smite, unless they added in some other hidden effect, such as an attack boost (which wouldn't show up in these tests).
As for being up to par, I can't say that either. Even with a boost in base damage, it still seems like it would be weaker than either Shijin or Smite, unless they added in some other hidden effect, such as an attack boost (which wouldn't show up in these tests).
Fenrir.Motenten said: »
Deno's data
No DA, so don't have to worry about the extra effect of the Quiahuiz legs.
Start with assuming it has the same +40% damage as the level 99 versions. Factor that out.
Minimum 3.0 damage: 2493 == 831 base damage
Maximum 3.0 damage: 2607 == 869 base damage
Base damage is most likely between 831 and 835.
What current formula predicts:
Skill: 440 (merited) + 242 = 75+3 = 78
Weapon: +116
Max fStr: 8 + (116+3)/9 = 21
Total base damage: 215
WSC: 60% Vit = (124 * .6) * 0.85 = 62
Weaponskill base damage: 277
fTP = 3.0
Final weaponskill working damage: 831
That matches the minimum predicted damage from the test samples. This is also below all the test samples, but not entirely unexpected; 2-hander data collected in the same way, back before the changes to max pDif for one-handed weapons, often had few or no samples below 3.0.
No DA, so don't have to worry about the extra effect of the Quiahuiz legs.
Start with assuming it has the same +40% damage as the level 99 versions. Factor that out.
Minimum 3.0 damage: 2493 == 831 base damage
Maximum 3.0 damage: 2607 == 869 base damage
Base damage is most likely between 831 and 835.
What current formula predicts:
Skill: 440 (merited) + 242 = 75+3 = 78
Weapon: +116
Max fStr: 8 + (116+3)/9 = 21
Total base damage: 215
WSC: 60% Vit = (124 * .6) * 0.85 = 62
Weaponskill base damage: 277
fTP = 3.0
Final weaponskill working damage: 831
That matches the minimum predicted damage from the test samples. This is also below all the test samples, but not entirely unexpected; 2-hander data collected in the same way, back before the changes to max pDif for one-handed weapons, often had few or no samples below 3.0.
277*3*3.15*1.4 =>3664 for maximum damage which is above all the data, so it's all good.
277*3*3.05*1.4 => 3548 for average value using pdif formulas for average. He is finding 3564 average with +/- 19 confidence interval so it's still good.
It didn't get any boost and it still sucks.
Fenrir.Motenten said: »
bleusummer's data
Start with assuming it has the same +40% damage as the level 99 versions. Factor that out.
Minimum 3.0 damage: 2880 == 960 base damage
Maximum 3.0 damage: 2979 == 993 base damage
What current formula predicts:
Skill: 440 (merited) + 242 = 75+3 = 78
Weapon: +116
Max fStr: 8 + (116+3)/9 = 21
Total base damage: 215
WSC: 60% Vit = (203 * .6) * 0.85 = 102
Weaponskill base damage: 317
fTP = 3.0
Final weaponskill working damage: 951
That's lower than the tested minimum damage. While there's the possibility of the Quiahuiz legs interfering in the sample, I thought they didn't work on weaponskills, and even if they did it should only be a rare outlier from the DA on Otronif, at worst. The sample data shows a regularly increasing curve.
So, the test sample is showing results that must necessarily have a higher base damage than what the formulas predict. The maximum damage the current formulas allow for is 4193, whereas the highest sample value was 4231.
If the base damage isn't being modified, it's also possible that it's an increase in the relic damage multiplier. However even a 5% increase here (from 1.4 to 1.45) would yield values well in excess of the tested data. Overall, does not seem likely.
As such, either the weaponskill formula has changed somehow (although Deno's data would seem to indicate otherwise), or some piece of gear is affecting the results more than anticipated (ie: some sort of hidden effect). The only thing that stands out as likely in that regard is the Anchoret's Mantle.
The total base weaponskill damage value is most likely between 960 and 969. If the base damage is what's being modified, that's an increase of between 9 and 18 points. Interestingly, Footwork gives +18 damage to kicks while in effect. However that damage shouldn't affect any weaponskills aside from Dragon Kick and Tornado Kick. It also didn't affect Deno's data in that way, so again seems unlikely.
Sort of grasping at straws here, but would you mind doing another test set without the Anchoret's Mantle?
Start with assuming it has the same +40% damage as the level 99 versions. Factor that out.
Minimum 3.0 damage: 2880 == 960 base damage
Maximum 3.0 damage: 2979 == 993 base damage
What current formula predicts:
Skill: 440 (merited) + 242 = 75+3 = 78
Weapon: +116
Max fStr: 8 + (116+3)/9 = 21
Total base damage: 215
WSC: 60% Vit = (203 * .6) * 0.85 = 102
Weaponskill base damage: 317
fTP = 3.0
Final weaponskill working damage: 951
That's lower than the tested minimum damage. While there's the possibility of the Quiahuiz legs interfering in the sample, I thought they didn't work on weaponskills, and even if they did it should only be a rare outlier from the DA on Otronif, at worst. The sample data shows a regularly increasing curve.
So, the test sample is showing results that must necessarily have a higher base damage than what the formulas predict. The maximum damage the current formulas allow for is 4193, whereas the highest sample value was 4231.
If the base damage isn't being modified, it's also possible that it's an increase in the relic damage multiplier. However even a 5% increase here (from 1.4 to 1.45) would yield values well in excess of the tested data. Overall, does not seem likely.
As such, either the weaponskill formula has changed somehow (although Deno's data would seem to indicate otherwise), or some piece of gear is affecting the results more than anticipated (ie: some sort of hidden effect). The only thing that stands out as likely in that regard is the Anchoret's Mantle.
The total base weaponskill damage value is most likely between 960 and 969. If the base damage is what's being modified, that's an increase of between 9 and 18 points. Interestingly, Footwork gives +18 damage to kicks while in effect. However that damage shouldn't affect any weaponskills aside from Dragon Kick and Tornado Kick. It also didn't affect Deno's data in that way, so again seems unlikely.
Sort of grasping at straws here, but would you mind doing another test set without the Anchoret's Mantle?
It's nothing surprising to me. A DA proced (from earing probably), the second hit didn't have time to land but the quai<sp> leggings proced showing they proc on WS. As far as average damage goes though, his data shows 4109 average +/- 22 while the theorical data is 4060. That's a little high, just a little though (1%!), putting my money on quai<sp> legging procing on WS. in any case the WS didn't get a boost or a minor one (1%..)
Pchan lol i respect your opinion, but while I was utilizing it... It was doing great and seemed like the better option over shijin while impetus was down for V. Smite, when I come home I'll redo the test without that monk cape for you mont.
In the parses I posted above the 2 V Smite monks(gaooga and momoop) were using rcb and the shijin monks used hydra like me and the wsavg's are pretty consistent to show FH doesn't suck anymore...
Now is it the Better option over shijin is the real question I believe.
In the parses I posted above the 2 V Smite monks(gaooga and momoop) were using rcb and the shijin monks used hydra like me and the wsavg's are pretty consistent to show FH doesn't suck anymore...
Now is it the Better option over shijin is the real question I believe.
I don't think that any monk should like lose shijin just for FH or anything >_> and I'm not advocating for it, it just seems much stronger than previously reported.
Doing great because you had good attack buffs. Smite wrecks everything with proper gear. VS can go as high a 14k on NMs pre tojil while only using 4 minuets/dia/rcb as food. A 6k smite is pretty common there.
Ah, forgot the earrings; was thinking there was only a couple percent from the Otronif. Yeah, if the Quiahuiz legs can proc on weaponskills, there's enough DA in there to impact the results. When you retest, please remove either the Quiahuiz, or all forms of DA.
I gotcha now money no DA!
And I totally agree with you Pchan
I just wanted to see if we could conclude that it is okay to use Final Heaven over Shijin, V Smite will always be king lol
And I totally agree with you Pchan
I just wanted to see if we could conclude that it is okay to use Final Heaven over Shijin, V Smite will always be king lol
Also, forgot that I had Impetus active on the spreadsheet for Smite. With Impetus up, I could only see Final Heaven doing 75%-80% of Smite's damage using the standard formulas, which was making me wonder how you were getting even remotely close. With Impetus down, though, it might do 95% as much as Smite, which seems more like what you were actually seeing. Shijin should be in the same neighborhood (probably better than both) when Impetus is down.
Edit: typo
Edit: typo
Maybe weird setups based on Quahiz procing on DA can make it decent.
Makes sense now thanks you 2, all of them being in the same neighborhood while impetus is down and V Smite clearly winning when up gotcha!
Yeah it's always nice to get information on something I appreciate it :) and I will get you that info when I get home so you can finalize your test.
A little off topic p chan have you gotten any of the upgraded AF MNK pieces? And are any of them worth it aside from body for chakra? Thanks in advance!
Yeah it's always nice to get information on something I appreciate it :) and I will get you that info when I get home so you can finalize your test.
A little off topic p chan have you gotten any of the upgraded AF MNK pieces? And are any of them worth it aside from body for chakra? Thanks in advance!
I'm going to upgrade full mnk AF, not that I have any other job I'm interested in upgrade to ilvl109... but since in 2 weeks we will able to upgrade them to i119, it might change the perspective. Just wanna be ready just in case.
@Motenten (or anyone else that may know)
I was messing with the MNK dps spreadsheet for the first time since February (took a long break). Is there any way for me to change the value of Manibozho and Otronif stats? I saw there was an option for Manibozho Rank 2 and Rank 15. I'd like to be able to see the difference between Rank 8 (1 airlixir +2) and Rank 12 (2 airlixir +2) as well. I'd also like to be able to compare these to different Otronif augments, especially +1/+2 crit and DA augments.
I assume there is a way to manually input these values?
I was messing with the MNK dps spreadsheet for the first time since February (took a long break). Is there any way for me to change the value of Manibozho and Otronif stats? I saw there was an option for Manibozho Rank 2 and Rank 15. I'd like to be able to see the difference between Rank 8 (1 airlixir +2) and Rank 12 (2 airlixir +2) as well. I'd also like to be able to compare these to different Otronif augments, especially +1/+2 crit and DA augments.
I assume there is a way to manually input these values?
Sylph.Peldin said: »
@Motenten (or anyone else that may know)
I was messing with the MNK dps spreadsheet for the first time since February (took a long break). Is there any way for me to change the value of Manibozho and Otronif stats? I saw there was an option for Manibozho Rank 2 and Rank 15. I'd like to be able to see the difference between Rank 8 (1 airlixir +2) and Rank 12 (2 airlixir +2) as well. I'd also like to be able to compare these to different Otronif augments, especially +1/+2 crit and DA augments.
I assume there is a way to manually input these values?
I was messing with the MNK dps spreadsheet for the first time since February (took a long break). Is there any way for me to change the value of Manibozho and Otronif stats? I saw there was an option for Manibozho Rank 2 and Rank 15. I'd like to be able to see the difference between Rank 8 (1 airlixir +2) and Rank 12 (2 airlixir +2) as well. I'd also like to be able to compare these to different Otronif augments, especially +1/+2 crit and DA augments.
I assume there is a way to manually input these values?
Go to the "gear lists" tab, scroll down to whichever slot you would like to compare. Highlight the row of piece you want, i.e. Manibozho R2 STR and copy it. Then just insert the copied row.. you can then edit the piece name & stats. When you go back to the "gear" tab, the new piece will be in the list.
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