IiPunch - Monk Guide

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iiPunch - Monk Guide
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 Asura.Geriond
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By Asura.Geriond 2019-10-12 09:02:00  
Valefor.Yandaime said: »
SimonSes said: »
Valefor.Yandaime said: »
. King of White Damage
king of white damage is actually Ukonvasara WAR

Normally I would object because MNK DMG works out to be around the same DMG as Polearm or Great Katana but basically Dual-Wielded...

But Ukon gets a similar effect thanks to 100% DA combined with 50% Triple Damage from capped Aftermath and you have a recipe for hilarity. I don’t know if it counts though because of Allmighty Chango but even so I forgot all about this haha.

So other than Super-Ukon, MNK should be top in White Damage
I'm not so sure. While WAR will hit harder per hit, MNK hits way more times with almost as much of a DMG rating. MNK gets less of a white bonus from Vere than WAR from Ukon, but has Impetus

WAR: 2 GAX hits per round, occasionally 3-4, 50% triple damage

MNK: 2 ~GKT hits per round, very often 3-4, occasionally 5-6+, and massive crit rate from Impetus 60% of the time. Not sure if Vere or Glanz would be better for pure white damage, since Vere only affects first hit.
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By SimonSes 2019-10-12 09:30:15  
People completely forget or are not aware of the fact that WAR has one more multiplier running in their white damage, which is DA damage +31%. Thats a huge bonus to white damage. Also WAR has natively 10% more crit rate and like 18% more crit damage. I wrote down a little about white damage in thf thread.
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By Aerix 2019-10-12 09:34:18  
Asura.Geriond said: »
I'm not so sure. While WAR will hit harder per hit, MNK hits way more times with almost as much of a DMG rating. MNK gets less of a white bonus from Vere than WAR from Ukon, but has Impetus

WAR: 2 GAX hits per round, occasionally 3-4, 50% triple damage

MNK: 2 ~GKT hits per round, very often 3-4, occasionally 5-6+, and massive crit rate from Impetus 60% of the time. Not sure if Vere or Glanz would be better for pure white damage, since Vere only affects first hit.

WAR also has +18% native Crit Damage, +10% Crit Rate, Blood Rage as well as much better Berserk uptime and effect. They also have access to nifty items like Yetshila +1 and Empy feet with another +11% CritDmg. That closes the gap between them and Impetus somewhat, especially since they don't have to build up stacks each time.

SimonSes said: »
People completely forget or are not aware of the fact that WAR has one more multiplier running in their white damage, which is DA damage +31%.

Aside from the Relic legs, is the Double Attack effect from JP actually a damage multiplier? I've always read it as more of a simple Attack bonus when DA procs.

Or are they getting the other +20% from something else?


Edit: I'm blind.
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By Nariont 2019-10-12 09:47:27  
Jse cape has +20 dmg on it
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By Aerix 2019-10-12 09:54:28  
Nariont said: »
Jse cape has +20 dmg on it

Oh derp, totally missed that. Thanks.
 Siren.Kyte
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By Siren.Kyte 2019-10-12 11:39:18  
Honestly, they're about the same provided they're both attack capped (MNK has the higher cap).
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By Aerix 2019-10-12 12:01:36  
Siren.Kyte said: »
Honestly, they're about the same provided they're both attack capped (MNK has the higher cap).

It would really need some proper testing, but you have a point. MNK's JSE neck has PDL+10% and is also their best TP piece at the same time. But Verethragna's nerfed AM3 vs. Ukonvasara is a huge difference.
 Siren.Kyte
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By Siren.Kyte 2019-10-12 12:08:41  
Yeah, if it weren't for that then Monk would indisputably be better.
 Siren.Codegen
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By Siren.Codegen 2019-10-12 14:15:57  
for white damage, you can see entire pages with runs of uninterrupted 10+ critical hits for 3100-3600 dmg and kicks for 5000-5700, that's just with solo trust buffs (and a 1.125 multiplier on belphegor from blunt), this is that same example with glanzfaust, focus impetus and footwork and didn't get a chance of seeing AM in action since it died quickly.



by the way even before the upgrade ascetic would occasionally do some really high damage comparatively
https://www.ffxiah.com/screenshots/81207
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By Aerix 2019-10-12 14:21:29  
Doesn't Belphegor take +25% Blunt damage, not just +12.5%?

That Ascetic's Fury spike looks like a double TA proc with crit procs on most hits. The WS also has a massive native Attack bonus, so it benefits from low buff situations. In any case, it's not like it was really changed that much with the HTH update, it just made Fotia viable.
 Siren.Codegen
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By Siren.Codegen 2019-10-12 14:40:16  
Aerix said: »
Doesn't Belphegor take +25% Blunt damage, not just +12.5%?
I'm going by https://ffxiclopedia.fandom.com/wiki/Damage_Types which separates h2h blunt vs other types of blunt and list corses at 1.125 not 1.25
I also didn't try mixing in some malignance armor but the damage limit on it might help further at those ranges. And for just melee rounds damage things like sagitta with 50% followup attack basically add another 50% since it's entire extra attack rounds with their own DA/TA etc although you lose benefits of AM and focus
 Ramuh.Austar
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By Ramuh.Austar 2019-10-12 14:42:01  
Siren.Codegen said: »
since it's entire extra attack rounds with their own DA/TA
no it isn't
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By Aerix 2019-10-12 14:45:18  
NMs typically have individual damage vulnerabilities/resistances:

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By SimonSes 2019-10-12 15:34:25  
Showing crits with max Impetus stacks, without battlemod addon or timestamp tells exactly nothing.

I'm getting (0dDEX, 0fSTR):
Veret AM3 MNK with 50/50 Impetus stacks and +2 neck: 5074 DPS (white DPS only I mean)
with Footwork on top of it: 5971

But obviously 50/50 Impetus stacks wont be an avg for MNK. AFAIK avg will be around 37/50 stack and then we have 4373 DPS (5146 with Footwork).

Now AM3 Ukon WAR has 5202 DPS and its not random. If you pop Blood Rage that goes up to 6329. WAR has also much easier time to cap his 3.95 pdif, than MNK his 4.18 pdif, to the point where you could probably use Fighter's roll instead of Chaos for WAR, which would make the gap even larger.

You need to understand how huge is AM3 for Ukon and how badly nerfed it is for h2h. For Ukon AM3 is +100% white damage. For Veret AM3 is + ~23.5% white damage. Before AM3 MNK wins easily. After AM3 he doesn't.
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By SimonSes 2019-10-12 15:36:44  
Ramuh.Austar said: »
Siren.Codegen said: »
since it's entire extra attack rounds with their own DA/TA
no it isn't

Seriously I dont know who created that myth and why are people in 2019 who still think it works that way >.>
 Asura.Geriond
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By Asura.Geriond 2019-10-12 15:45:58  
SimonSes said: »
Showing crits with max Impetus stacks, without battlemod addon or timestamp tells exactly nothing.

I'm getting (0dDEX, 0fSTR):
Veret AM3 MNK with 50/50 Impetus stacks and +2 neck: 5074 DPS (white DPS only I mean)
with Footwork on top of it: 5971

But obviously 50/50 Impetus stacks wont be an avg for MNK. AFAIK avg will be around 37/50 stack and then we have 4373 DPS (5146 with Footwork).

Now AM3 Ukon WAR has 5202 DPS and its not random. If you pop Blood Rage that goes up to 6329. WAR has also much easier time to cap his 3.95 pdif, than MNK his 4.18 pdif, to the point where you could probably use Fighter's roll instead of Chaos for WAR, which would make the gap even larger.

You need to understand how huge is AM3 for Ukon and how badly nerfed it is for h2h. For Ukon AM3 is +100% white damage. For Veret AM3 is + ~23.5% white damage. Before AM3 MNK wins easily. After AM3 he doesn't.
What's white damage DPS for AM3 Glanz? With how nerfed Vere is Glanz might be better just because of how many hits you get (if you swap out multi attack for crit damage+ gear like Herc).
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By Aerix 2019-10-12 16:36:34  
How about Sagitta Path A? I realize I never bothered to read up how its ODD works, but does it proc on multiattacks and on offhand hits? If yes, would it not be quite competitive when paired with Store TP+25?
 Ramuh.Austar
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By Ramuh.Austar 2019-10-12 16:39:38  
it procs just like everything else for h2h, first hit only
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By Aerix 2019-10-12 16:40:14  
Ramuh.Austar said: »
it procs just like everything else for h2h, first hit only

That's a huge shame, but makes sense.

Btw, for people using Godhands over faster HTH now: unless I'm mistaken, even a mastered MNK needs a Mache Earring +1 to cap Delay with them. Not sure if Dedition or Brutal could possibly be a DPS gain over capped Delay, but I somewhat doubt it.

Just something to keep in mind for max white damage TP setups.
 Asura.Outlawbruce
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By Asura.Outlawbruce 2019-10-12 16:55:14  
Aerix said: »
Ramuh.Austar said: »
it procs just like everything else for h2h, first hit only

That's a huge shame, but makes sense.

Btw, for people using Godhands over faster HTH now: unless I'm mistaken, even a mastered MNK needs a Mache Earring +1 to cap Delay with them. Not sure if Dedition or Brutal could possibly be a DPS gain over capped Delay, but I somewhat doubt it.

Just something to keep in mind for max white damage TP setups.

Slowly trying to build a AM3 TP set for glanz. Mache Earring +1 sounds like it would be good for that since you don't really stack DA and TA gear during mythic am3. But trying to follow up with what Geriond said. I'm seeing Adhemar head and Ryuo gloves (path c) so far. Haven't been looking much. Probably AF3 body as well.
Edit: Obviously we were talking about during impetus. so scratch the af3 body.
ItemSet 369053
Is this way off base for Impetus up+AM3?
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By Aerix 2019-10-12 17:52:15  
Not sure how MNK's white damage to WS ratio is now (i.e. whether it's worth stacking Crit over STP during Mythic AM3), but at the very least I'd still use Anchorite's Gaiters +3 over Herculean to make your Kick Attacks more powerful and frequent.

Also, never take off Niqmaddu Ring imo. Quadruple Attack still beats AM3.
 Asura.Outlawbruce
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By Asura.Outlawbruce 2019-10-12 17:57:37  
Aerix said: »
Not sure how MNK's white damage to WS ratio is now (i.e. whether it's worth stacking Crit over STP during Mythic AM3), but at the very least I'd still use Anchorite's Gaiters +3 over Herculean to make your Kick Attacks more powerful.

I was wondering the same thing. 120 Attack still going to beat 5% crit damage you think on all hits and not just something boosting kicks alone?
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By Aerix 2019-10-12 18:04:41  
I can't say for sure without checking it in the spreadsheet, but you also get Kick Attacks+10 and generally more Accuracy (important for Impetus stacks). Crits on full damage KAs are quite impressive too, so I'd imagine it'd be quite close either way.
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By kaiju9 2019-10-12 20:53:57  
For legs/feet, if I don't have Hes+3/Anch+3 yet, which should I TP in?

- Kenda+1/Kenda+1
- Hes+2/Anch+2
- Samnuha(max)/Herc(TA6)

(also have Malignance as options)

Using Vereth, if it matters.
 Lakshmi.Buukki
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2019-10-12 21:52:02  
Depends what you're fighting. IIRC, Kenda is pretty standard as it gives huge acc, crit rate and meva, but sam/herc was the better option of the two before, assuming acc wasn't an option. I can't confirm the +2 relic/artifact combo, but it depends on your other total KA rate. Its probably behind the other two options. I would just go with option C until capping your Jse
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By kaiju9 2019-10-12 22:06:23  
Sounds good, thanks!
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By eeternal 2019-10-12 23:19:33  
Anyone have a good howling fist gear set? should I go all str and wsd/DA or add some vit? seems hard to balance between the 2 modifiers
 Lakshmi.Buukki
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2019-10-13 00:23:45  
ItemSet 369060

What I use. I don't feel like augmenting a VIT/WSD Herc set so I just use my standard STR ones. I think my cape is VIT (for Chakra), but I have a STR/WSD also. I don't recall which one is better, but the damage diff is probably minimal. I think in most cases, you want WSD/STR(VIT)/MA, but STR vs VIT attribute seem to have a lower impact on overall damage so I wouldn't stress it as much as WSD/QA.
 Siren.Codegen
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By Siren.Codegen 2019-10-13 00:32:02  
SimonSes said: »
Ramuh.Austar said: »
Siren.Codegen said: »
since it's entire extra attack rounds with their own DA/TA
no it isn't

Seriously I dont know who created that myth and why are people in 2019 who still think it works that way >.>
It's from the lack of info on it and the confusing description, that's what you would guess at first and I did a simple test at the time that seemed convincing:
equip only TA (~+30%) punch and immediately turn around pausing a long time turned until all animation stops, look at all animation and log for a single attack round, then look at the highest number of chain attacks, looking at ones without kicks I got up to 7, which i assumed was a TA in the the first round and a TA in the followup (left 3, right, followup 3).

I didn't realize that TA can trigger for both punches on any H2H weapon ad thought it could only apply on the first attack, while instead TA can proc on either or both punches. I just tested now comparing also with any other H2H, I can get 6 attacks with no kicks in a row with TA only gear, so I was really getting 3 left 3 right and a single followup.

So followup seems to be just a single punch after a whole attack round (animation is a punch after last kick). If you don't want to see this confusion in 2019 and have an account to edit bgwiki etc you should post some of this info there, it would go a long way on that front.
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By eeternal 2019-10-13 00:32:49  
Thank you Buukki.. in capped attacked situation.. would you lean towards jse neck +2?

appreciate it
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