IiPunch - Monk Guide

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iiPunch - Monk Guide
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 Asura.Kusaregedo
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By Asura.Kusaregedo 2019-10-09 02:10:14  
jumped the shark and r15 my spharai, don't let me down SE
 Asura.Bixbite
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By Asura.Bixbite 2019-10-09 02:36:35  
How good is su5 weapon path B for a subtle blow build.
Does it stack up well against other REMA?
 Asura.Sechs
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By Asura.Sechs 2019-10-09 03:19:06  
Clearly with Sagitta you go Path C for the HP+400 and Chakra+50!11!one!

...no seriously path B is fine, I think it's considered to be the best path. Granted I think Subtle Blow II is more a really juicy icing on the cake than the main reason why you go path B. DPS-wise it's the Follow Up attack that makes things interesting.

Sagitta is an excellent weapon even because of base values like HP+150 and DT-10%, gives a lot of freedom in other slots when you're building your sets.


Someone made a tier list some time ago and granted how Vere was still the best weapon, I think Sagitta was one of the best weapons after that? So yeah, it's nice.
We've got no clue how the tier list is gonna change after tomorrow's patch btw.
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By SimonSes 2019-10-09 03:26:55  
Imo Sagitta lost a lot of it's -DT value with introduction of Malignance set. Anyway tier listing weapons now is kinda pointless. Lets just wait that 24h
 Asura.Sechs
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By Asura.Sechs 2019-10-09 03:47:47  
SimonSes said: »
Imo Sagitta lost a lot of it's -DT value with introduction of Malignance set.
If we were talking about a non NIN/SAM/MNK job I'd agree wholeheartedly.
But given we're talking about MNK I agree partially.
I mean you raise a valid point but while Malignance is awesome in general as a fantastic compromise that gives accuracy, DT, STP, Meva (and even PDL if you're at cap) in most situations it's not the best option for pure DPS.
For instance on MNK you have Kendatsuba which offers similar levels of Accuracy and Meva, but also more DPS (excluding maybe the situations with capped att where PDL would kick in)

Also on MNK you kinda have to rule out the body slot, at least for 3 minutes every 5.

So I dunno. I agree it lost some of its value maybe, but not entirely.
I wouldn't buy a Sagitta though, especially 24hrs before the patch lol

Well I dunno it depends, it's a gamble. You could be losing gil, but you could be gaining gil as well who knows!
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By Ruaumoko 2019-10-09 04:15:44  
I'm really fond of the Sagitta and mine are on Path A. Path A for me has almost triple the Store TP of the Godhands, has more Accuracy than any other option and even incorporates some of the Vereth's raw melee damage (to a lesser degree) with the ODD effect.

ItemSet 368963

Without Impetus up that set caps me at the 50% mark while retaining Multi-Attack, giving a solid amount of Store TP (+75) and completely capping Subtle Blow at 75%. Monk only gets 35% when job mastered so you still need 15% from somewhere, I opted to get it from the two Adhemar pieces with the Wristbands being on D Path (8%). If Impetus is up then I swap out the Gere Ring for the Defending Ring, gets me back to where I was without losing major DPS.

This set wouldn't work anywhere near as well without the Sagitta, I concede that they lose to Verethragna handily for raw damage output but if you're looking for a more defensive weapon which still has damage potential then you really can't go wrong with it.
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 Asura.Topace
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By Asura.Topace 2019-10-09 05:04:48  
#MakeGodhandsNumber1Again
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By SimonSes 2019-10-09 08:55:26  
Ruaumoko said: »
This set wouldn't work anywhere near as well without the Sagitta

Dedition earring kinda doesnt have sense in your build. Brutal is much better even without massive stp from Sagitta. That's not 50%PDT in your set btw, but 49%.

Also I much prefer this setup (this is my normal TP set now):

ItemSet 368631

Adhemar in your set drops down MEVA which is imo counterproductive. You either want really high meva or you dont need it at all. This setup (assuming you switch ammo to Staunch and add Malignance Tabard and weapon to Sagitta likein your setup ofc) provides 1%DT more (and then caps you at 50%) and same TA rate and also caps Subtle blow. Instead of 6% crit damage from adhemar you are getting 6% critical hit rate from Kendatsuba and most importantly you keep very high MEVA. Overall much better setup imo.

Now the best part tho. Even if you take off Bhikku+1 body for TP during Impetus and replace it with Malignance for 50%DT, you still have higher DPS than with Sagitta and Bhikku+1 body setup. So I still see no reason for Sagitta.
 Bahamut.Negan
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By Bahamut.Negan 2019-10-09 08:57:03  
SimonSes said: »
So I still see no reason for Sagitta.
BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

;)
 Leviathan.Comeatmebro
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By Leviathan.Comeatmebro 2019-10-09 09:05:22  
I've been looking at this for like 5 minutes, and I swear I'm not retarded, but I can't see how you get to 50% DT without Sagitta.

Staunch+1 is 3%, Malignancex4 is 25, belt is 6, mantle is 5 = 39 DT
I'm assuming you add d.ring, but that's still 49. Does malignance have higher actual values than listed to round up to 50? Am I just missing something obvious?

If you have the spreadsheet or sim values still, what's the difference between the same set with vereth+dring+malignance vs sagitta[a]+dring+bhikku and sagitta+gere vs vereth+dring?

(To be clear, I'm not questioning your conclusion and I don't doubt Vereth wins, but assessing the value of making Verethragnas, which are significantly higher time investment than Sagitta.)
 Asura.Ladyofhonor
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By Asura.Ladyofhonor 2019-10-09 09:08:34  
I don't see why you'd be using a DT augment on a cape. MDT is super easy to cap, BDT is rarely relevant. 10% PDT all day.
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 Leviathan.Comeatmebro
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By Leviathan.Comeatmebro 2019-10-09 09:16:35  
If it's 50% either way, I'd take 37>50 BDT and 37>50 MDT over ginsen's stats. You aren't able to swap out anything else with the PDT cape. Rarely isn't never, and there are occasions(however uncommon) where shell is dispelled and not immediately reapplied.
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By SimonSes 2019-10-09 09:57:34  
Leviathan.Comeatmebro said: »
I've been looking at this for like 5 minutes, and I swear I'm not retarded, but I can't see how you get to 50% DT without Sagitta.

Oh I took his set as a base (and he has 10%PDT cape, which I took as obvious), which I explained here:

SimonSes said: »
(assuming you switch ammo to Staunch and add Malignance Tabard and weapon to Sagitta like in your setup ofc)

Then I suggested a switch from Adhemar head/hands and Malignance feet/legs, to Kendatsuba head/feet and Malignance legs/hands and I explained the difference here:

SimonSes said: »
provides 1%DT more (and then caps you at 50%) and same TA rate and also caps Subtle blow. Instead of 6% crit damage from adhemar you are getting 6% critical hit rate from Kendatsuba and most importantly you keep very high MEVA. Overall much better setup imo.

The only difference between set with Veret and with Sagitta are:
a) Impetus Down:
Sagitta: Gere Ring + Malignance body
Veret: D ring + Malignance body
b) Impetus Up:
Sagitta: D ring + Bhikku body +1
Veret: D ring + Malignance body

Advantage of Bhikku body +1 for Impetus up is far from being enough to close the DPS gap between those weapons if you mainly using Vsmite. Now if you use other WSs for Impetus down, then Gere Ring instead of D ring might close the gap to Verethragna and Godhands, because that gap is way smaller. Still it will only close the gap at best, so no reason to drop 150M on it.
 Leviathan.Comeatmebro
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By Leviathan.Comeatmebro 2019-10-09 10:03:43  
Ideally, you would say PDT instead of DT when referring to PDT. Makes sense now though.

Was looking for your actual DPS numbers since you must have ran math/sim/spreadsheet to get that conclusion. 150m is nothing to me, I'll drop 900m on 4 augmented Sagitta long before I spend the hundreds of hours to make 4 Verethragna if we're talking a <5% difference. Vereth is not only more gil, but also a significant timesink instead of none, so I don't think grabbing a next-best option is necessarily a bad thing if the gap is close.
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By SimonSes 2019-10-09 10:44:50  
I only use sheets atm.
Well if we are talking about this particular hybrid/turtle/sb set, then during Impetus assuming you use Vsmite, I'm getting 7730-7955 (AM1-AM3) DPS for Veret with Malignance body and 7343 DPS for Sagitta with Bhikku +1, so the gap is still pretty big imo. Now for Impetus down it's hard to tell tbh, because you will probably mix various WSs, maybe use Footwork etc.

The question is, do you really need 50%PDT? You can still use Bhikku +1 body with Veret and sit at 40%PDT. Veret DPS then jumps to 8337-8624.

If you are lazy, but have gils and you don't have Veret, then sure you can buy Sagitta and still perform very well and probably only see the significant difference to Veret during Impetus only.
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 Asura.Kusaregedo
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By Asura.Kusaregedo 2019-10-09 11:15:06  
how far ahead of moonlight nodowa is jse+2 neck? like the kick attacks but hate giving up store tp.

probably should have specified, more often than not i won't be capping pdif, playing mostly with trusts buffs.
 Asura.Eiryl
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By Asura.Eiryl 2019-10-09 11:31:07  
Don't know the exact exchange rate, but 25 DA (kicks) is worth "a lot" more than 10 STP

Just comparing piece to piece. You already use relic legs and spharai. It'll give you 98% kick attack rate.
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By Ruaumoko 2019-10-09 18:15:58  
SimonSes said: »
That's not 50%PDT in your set btw, but 49%.
D Path on Adhemar Bonnet +1 is HP+105, Attack+13 and PDT-4%.

I'm capped. If anything I'm actually over capped, the Tathlum is there for Ailment resist more than anything.
 Leviathan.Nitenichi
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By Leviathan.Nitenichi 2019-10-09 18:17:10  
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By DirectX 2019-10-09 18:47:52  
Leviathan.Comeatmebro said: »
Ideally, you would say PDT instead of DT when referring to PDT. Makes sense now though.

Was looking for your actual DPS numbers since you must have ran math/sim/spreadsheet to get that conclusion. 150m is nothing to me, I'll drop 900m on 4 augmented Sagitta long before I spend the hundreds of hours to make 4 Verethragna if we're talking a <5% difference. Vereth is not only more gil, but also a significant timesink instead of none, so I don't think grabbing a next-best option is necessarily a bad thing if the gap is close.
On Asura the h2h is 125m, then you need 5 stacks of hq crystals to cap augments? That's 200m on Asura so it's 330m to R25 saggita?
 Asura.Eiryl
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By Asura.Eiryl 2019-10-09 18:55:50  
145+85~ if you go with crystals instead of aggregates (why are aggregates double the price? stupidity)

I legit don't know why anyone would use sagitta though. If I had no interest in the rema process, karambit and call it good enough.
 Bahamut.Negan
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By Bahamut.Negan 2019-10-09 18:56:12  
Leviathan.Comeatmebro said: »
Ideally, you would say PDT instead of DT when referring to PDT. Makes sense now though.

Was looking for your actual DPS numbers since you must have ran math/sim/spreadsheet to get that conclusion. 150m is nothing to me, I'll drop 900m on 4 augmented Sagitta long before I spend the hundreds of hours to make 4 Verethragna if we're talking a <5% difference. Vereth is not only more gil, but also a significant timesink instead of none, so I don't think grabbing a next-best option is necessarily a bad thing if the gap is close.
Do both! And Glanzfaust too!
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By Aerix 2019-10-09 18:59:36  
These would be my preferred sets:

Impetus up:
ItemSet 368971

Doesn't compromise too much as you'd still have 46% PDT, capped SB and high MEVA.

Impetus down:
ItemSet 368972

Capped PDT, SB and high MEVA.

Using Kenda+1 Legs/Feet is much preferred over Head/Hands as they are much closer in MEVA to Malignance (only 11 points difference vs. 22).

Also, regarding Staunch Tathlum+1: if I recall correctly, Resist+ effects are halved or quartered vs. NMs, so it contributes almost nothing on its own against status effects.
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By DirectX 2019-10-09 19:05:42  
Asura.Eiryl said: »
145+85~ if you go with crystals instead of aggregates (why are aggregates double the price? stupidity)

I legit don't know why anyone would use sagitta though. If I had no interest in the rema process, karambit and call it good enough.
Never looked at crystal prices, assumed they'd be priced relatively to aggregates. Don't even understand why they're not unless people are paying out the *** for the convenience?
 Asura.Eiryl
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By Asura.Eiryl 2019-10-09 19:07:38  
They pay more because they honest to God are to stupid to notice.

10 rp x 99 = 1000 rp @ 3.4m - 3400 per
50 rp x 99 = 5000 rp @ 39m - 7800 per
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 Asura.Patb
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By Asura.Patb 2019-10-09 19:33:26  
Asura.Eiryl said: »
Don't know the exact exchange rate, but 25 DA (kicks) is worth "a lot" more than 10 STP

Just comparing piece to piece. You already use relic legs and spharai. It'll give you 98% kick attack rate.

I'm only finding 88% where is the extra 10% coming from?
 Asura.Eiryl
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By Asura.Eiryl 2019-10-09 19:33:59  
You forgot to count AF feet 10%?

(it would be silly to not use them with 88% kick rate)
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By Aerix 2019-10-09 20:07:50  
Asura.Patb said: »
Asura.Eiryl said: »
Don't know the exact exchange rate, but 25 DA (kicks) is worth "a lot" more than 10 STP

Just comparing piece to piece. You already use relic legs and spharai. It'll give you 98% kick attack rate.

I'm only finding 88% where is the extra 10% coming from?

Base (14%) + Merits (5%) + Spharai (15%) + Neck+2 (25%) + Ambu cape (10%) + Relic legs+3 (19%) + Artifact feet+3 (10%) = 98%
 Lakshmi.Buukki
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2019-10-09 20:10:41  
Everyone ignores the 10% on the back because of omgaugments. You literally get 10% extra follow up attack, which is why I generally recommend stp on the back as the sap augment. The ka attack bonus is pretty neat also. In this case, the +2 neck is godly for kick attacks. Stp simply doesn’t compete with it
 Asura.Patb
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By Asura.Patb 2019-10-09 20:28:32  
Yep! I absolutely forgot the cape.
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