IiPunch - Monk Guide

I understand where you are coming from. I'm mostly blaming SE not the people playing monk etc. But I would advise people against saying I'm right you are wrong. Cause I spent 10 more minutes on my spread sheet ! That doesn't help anyone. If you want to play monk play it. But don't expect people in the game to want you to bring monk to stuff. The solution we all seek doesn't look like it is going to happen. It would take the Japanese community probably to get the problems addressed. So if they seem ok with the way monk is. The rest of us have to deal with it.

JPs whined a lot about the Boost and Focus/Dodge change (which *** Glanzfaust users big time) and SE said "nope" several times to them as well.
When SE says that to their beloved JP users you know things aren't gonna change any time soon, if ever! :(

The issue with MNK, and it also effects PUP, is their WS's are simply too weak to make them useful as a DPS in an environment focused on WS damage. Every other DPS job has some benefit, something they bring to the table, some way that they could make up for not being in the top 3~4 for DPS, except MNK. The very thing that make MNK so easy to use for high DPS back in the day is now limiting it's potential.

We can't have PUP over powered it would destroy the game ! If they got creative they could you know make the weapon skill change only effect monk...but that sounds complicated !

That was the "idea" behind boost changes, id like to think with some proper changes with that, footwork and impetus along with upping the stat mods/ftp on various h2h ws a little bit and maybe adding some sc flexibility to them by adding/changing properties on some ws mnk could easily hold its own with its own JAs. But as stated, that would take actual work.

I wonder if without the stupid Time/Delay ***Boost could actually be worth it?

60 seconds cooldown.
Same boost you currently get at the highest possible wait
No delay penalty or any other penalty
Would that be good? Not enough maybe but I'm sure it would be cool.


While it's a minimal difference, personally I'm still very emo about the new duration of Focus.
Alternating that with Aggressor and having an acc+ bonus 100% of the time was such a bliss for planning your sets around, rather than this huge acc boost that only lasts 30 seconds... it's preposterous.

it'd certainly do more for boost than it does now. The WSD increase isnt even that bad its the delay that kills it entirely. Much like new footwork is decent boost to kick ws, but we only have 2 i think? And both are kind of meh, tornado kick would be better if it had decent sc properties. Impetus is a nice increase but losing the stack if you miss hurts it quite a bit. All the peices are there to move mnk up, SE just actually has to use them.

And yes new focus is just lousy due to the duration, coulda simply bumped the acc on it and left it alone, since h2h actually wants the extra acc due to no 2hander dex calc or off-hand stat sticks dw jobs get

MNK weaponskill damage has improved dramatically anyway. 20k average isn't too far behind most ws except resolution. If I get off my *** and get bhikku cyclas I wouldn't be surprised if it got to fudo levels of damage.

There is nothing they can do to boost to make it help mnk other than make it an ability that lasts for an actual duration like impetus or zerk. Footwork is stupid with a 1 duration now, but I need to see how TK and DK perform with it on. I don't particularly care about focus because having a bard trivializes accuracy on just about everything, but even ignoring brd, mnk can gear for a stupid amount of accuracy without sacrificing dd stats.

If SE wants to fix mnk they need to either

A) make impetus not reset on a miss
B) make boost like a 2 min JA that grants tp bonus or similar effect
C) add ftp transfer to rf and vs

I'm just a little worried they'll break mnk though since it honestly isn't too far off from other DD.

Boost should have worked with stacks

increaing dmg and ws dmg while lowering defensive stats with every time its used...

Instead we got SAs cousin who enjoys the taste of glue..

Also mnk is really far off from other dds - heck the new update to me was a nerf lol

Frankly mnk should be the one hander dd that competes with 2 handers, just because it offers no real outside utility like the others do. As for impetus its an easy fix, just make a miss detract the same bonus it gives, or even double if SE wants to keep their silly drawback on it. So a miss is at most a 4 atk 2 crit dmg loss before job points. Idk about making ftp transfer on RF but definately VS and up the ftp/stat on kick WS. All that would put mnk well above anything pup could put out while also helping pups dmg a lil but not enough to make it "OP"

The JA fix was arguably a nerf.
The tweak to weapon damage/delay was, I would say, a small boost though.

The Focus change would be okay if they changed the AF head and/or the job points to add duration or some other effect instead of just more accuracy.

I agree with this half of that sentence, anyway. BRD songs are a huge piece of meeting Accuracy requirements. Distract III can account for another 130. Food can make up any remaining difference. Any job can do this a multitude of ways, and ensuring Accuracy is capped is the first step to leaving town.
GEO can tear a big enough hole into a target's DEF that it needs very little help. BoG can be full-timed on many targets with an adequate Pet DT-% and Regen set. Then, as party set-up allows, add Dia II or III, Light Shot, Special JA, and other spell or WS effects. All of these are rarely needed at once to cap Attack, but lots of options exist so it is nearly impossible to not cap Attack.

In the present state of the game, these things, capping Accuracy, Attack and Haste are the basics. Even capping PDT, MDT or DT are pretty basic, now. Every job can do it. In most cases, doing so doesn't depend on the job itself. In the past, MNK was special in its ability to cap Haste. A faster attack speed than its peers coupled with Subtle Blow/Penance, made it interesting.

Maybe a big problem with MNK's image is that MNK JAs are largely unimpressive. Most every other job has at least one JA that really shines. MNK's are met with, at best, mixed applause. The rest are greeted with ambivalence or disgust.
MNK's Gift table is a joke.
MNK's DPS is, at best, on par with the worst (or worse-geared) of its peers and, at worst, bottom of the pack period.

I mean, every day of the week is basically the same. If I were trapped in a Groundhog's Day-esque time loop, it could be argued that any day of the week would be largely the same experience... But I would still prefer a Friday or Saturday to a Monday.

I'm looking to get around to bringing MNK out and showing in the form of a parse that even MNK can cap Accuracy and Attack on higher ilvl targets without two Idris GEOs (or unusual buffs/set-up, at all) and without impeding party performance (any more than MNK does just because it is MNK). Obviously common sense isn't enough. It is just hard to waste a couple hours of my and others time to show what even napkin math proves.

you're saying a whole lot of things that everyone in this thread already knows, did you have a point or..?

of course mnk can cap accuracy attack on anything w/o 2 idris geos, you just need fury/frailty for attack and a good marsyas brd for acc in most cases.. but you're going to have to split with defensive buffs on anything that matters anyway

Want to argue with the results before I even get around to the parses? "Anything that matters" is subjective. Splitting for defensive buffs is also not a concern for most high ilvl content. I don't see WARs or DRKs panicing that their roles in endgame are over because Kendatsuba exists. Flame away, I'll be back.

Lots of options exist if you have an Idris Geo at all times. Not everyone does, especially for mid level content (T3 Reisenjima, Omen bosses, etc).

True, of course. But that same group may also not have Kendatsuba or any of the other gear in my set, certainly doesn't have Kendatsuba +1 and probably shouldn't be bringing a MNK in the first place.
They should be working on an Idris. And my concern is what is BiS for DPS (excluding any other variables), so I assume other pieces of the party are also BiS.

A few things, first realize that 20K is low, like really low for buffed WS damage. That's under CDC, Savage, Evisceration, Rudra, Judgment, Vorpal, Stardiver, Cross Reaper, Resolution, Ten and several others. You need to be looking at around 28~32K, which is Cross Reaper, Star Diver, Rudras and such territory. Second is that Fudo is one of the "high end" WS's. All GKT WS's are really quite weak in comparison (outside special Jinpu setups). What makes them so powerful is their amazing SC compatibility and Samurai. GKT on SAM is one of those "quantity over quality" builds where sheer volume overcomes the lower WS Average, that and SC's.

And just to put this in perspective, my WAR/MNK with Hepa hands can average 20K TK's with DD buffs. So "20K average" isn't exactly something to be proud of. You should see what I can do with Evisceration, Vorpal Blade, Rampage and Judgement before thinking 20K is something to write home about.

Yeah a big acc bonus for 30s out of 120 isn't particularly useful. They should of made it a 1/3 with the merits and AF extending it's duration and raise it's crit rate bonus. Imp's crit stack shouldn't be wiped on a miss, instead it should just be reduced by one hits worth.

I mean, just because you have excellent gear doesn't mean you always traipse around with people you know. When going with people you don't know, you can't guarantee their gear quality even if yours is amazing.

They basically did everything wrong in the "monk buff."

How are you getting numbers like 28K-32K+ with Resolution at ~1000 TP? Are you counting only when Warcry is up?

On my spreadsheet, with capped attack, SAM/WAR rolls, and very good gear (Argosy +1, Niqmaddu/Regal Ring, Moonshade TP, ele belt/neck, etc), Resolution only comes out to about 25K if you WS as soon as you hit 1000 TP.

I'm quite aware 20k is low, nor is it something to "be proud of", not everything is a *** swinging contest man. Prior to the update, people were justifying not WSing at all as a means of improving their DPS, which is obviously an exaggeration if I'm hitting 20k averages. Also, it's not that much lower than BLU sword WS (which I've typically seen in the 20-23k range with similar buffs.) I've also stated that MNK, along with other dual wield DD (that aren't THF, DNC, whose DPS I have yet to actually measure cause I don't play with them outside of Teles/Erinys) are fairly behind 2-handed DD, which is okay I suppose because of the utility most dual wield DD bring. I'm also absolutely and completely unsurprised that WAR can reach 20k on hand-to-hand weaponskills given that they BY FAR have access to the best WS gear in the game. Argosy +1 is absolutely ridiculous and could probably make any STR/DEX mod WS look good.

I still need to pickup Shukuyu Sune-Ate and play around with Footwork + Kick WS builds as well. I haven't seen proper testing done on footwork WS since the update, but it could quite possibly make MNK competitive given that they'd be performing WS with >D400 weapons. Their ftp isn't as impressive as other WS, but they'd at least be getting ~4 ftp stacked with a ton of WSD+. If it's as good as I think it might be, MNK would actually be in an okay spot for zerg fights given that Footwork is long enough to last for most fights, and for fights where it isn't, WC/super revit exist to be able to maintain it full time.

I don't think Saevel is exaggerating on Resolution numbers. RUN has worse WS gear than WAR and if you go back a few pages to look at my Neak parse, Snapsters' Resolution average was 30k across 150 ws and he was going at 1000 as often as possible.

But how often is "often as possible", and how often do RUNs get distracted by some other task and build more TP? Even 3 extra hits can bring your WS damage up by about 50%.

RUNs using a bot/lua to ws as soon as they have TP don't get distracted. Lionheart's TP bonus beats every advantage WAR has though, provided you're WSing at 1000 on both and capped attack on both. Both jobs will also have so much multiattack that very few WS are exactly 1000, even if not allowing an extra round in.

30k average in real conditions sounds perfectly fine to me.

Mnk suffers from the rare diseases- aintgudatnotin

SE attempt to fix it fell flat

ok... yes... you can beat content with mnk... the issue is how it compares to others which they wipe the floor with mnk- not almost... not close.. not nearly... not comparable... straight disrespects mnk

Add to the fact that mnks been crap for a while so most mnks are out of date in gear and skill department barring the few "monk is still good" crew

So do a favor for your friends... ls memeber... your 8 box mules... stop playing mnk... maybe SE will realize its trash when zero people play it

wow... great input... thank you for your wise words... nickeny suffers from the rare diseases- mentalretardationlolXD

His spreedsheet is borked. The WS's I listed do indeed hit those numbers, I know this because I have sets defined for them and frequently experiment with them to see what numbers I can make. Judgement for example hits for ~30K (its the savage blade of the clubs), Hexa I can make hit pretty high along with frequently overlooked WS's like Evisceration and Vorpal Blade.

MNK does amazing melee DPS, maybe a bit more multi-attack + store TP but overall it hits hard as ***. It's WS's suck because they are difficult to pump up and exploit. The current high end DPS meta is about finding a few WS's that have some exploitable mechanic and then stacking gear and buffs to exploit that mechanic in a repeatable way. Whether it's stacking WSD, Multi-Hit, WSC, Crit or a combination, it's what we due via gearswaps. H2H WS's, like Staff WS's, are simply ***to exploit. VS and TK and the more notable ones, but both have severe problems with damage growth.

Just because I'm HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE doesn't make it any less true