IiPunch - Monk Guide

Unless im mistaken h2h ws desc for multihits has always counted the off-hand hot. So say asuran is 8 hits, thats 7 with the main and 1 with off. So if VS says 4 hit ws, thats counting the offhand

Tornado Kick is the only multihit (as in 3+) H2H WS where the description doesn't account for the extra hit.

So in all tests, you saw different numbers than what the formula predicted. Assuming that latency or plugin errors weren't the issue, and that the plugin was distinguishing single hits from multi-attacks, counters and kicks, it implies that there is an error in the formula.

To summarize, and keeping in mind 96 delay and 1.6 sec between attack rounds is the absolute H2H floor:

Tests 1 & 8) spharai, capped magic/equip haste with 210 MA:
formula predicts 120.5 delay (2.0107 seconds) but you see 2.09 seconds. That's still pretty close (off by 0.08 sec). The nice thing is that Comeatmebro got the same number on two separate occasions.

2) " " with 236 MA:
formula predicts 112.5 delay (1.875 seconds) but you see 2.016 seconds. Now we're off by a bit (0.141 sec). Could the MA part of the calculation be wrong, or is there a different floor?

3) " " " with 10% job haste:
formula predicts 77.34 delay (1.29 seconds) which is below the floor! You would expect the floor to be 1.6 seconds, but you see 2.013 seconds. That's the shortest interval yet, and implies the floor for Spharai might be 2.013, but since this is nowhere near 1.6 seconds, it suggests that the weapon you use might affect your floor regardless of the formula.

4) lynx baghnaks, capped magic/equip haste with 254 MA:
formula predicts 80 delay (1.33 sec), which is below the floor. Again, you expect the floor to be 1.6 seconds, but you see 1.759 sec. This isn't too far off, and is closer than you managed to get with Spharai. Since the weapon delay on the lynx is only 30, and is 116 on the Spharai, maybe there's some additional way that the extra delay is factored in, and is more noticeable the further you deviate from the base of 0.

5) " " with 210 MA:
formula predicts 93.75 delay (1.56 sec), which is also below the floor. Again, you expect the floor to be 1.6 seconds, but you see 1.76 sec, which is basically the same number you saw in the test above. That helps support that with the lynx, your floor is 1.76.

6)Spharai, capped magic/equip haste with 254 MA:
formula predicts 106.88 delay (1.78 seconds) which is close to the expected floor, but you see 2.016 sec, just like you did in test #2 with only 236 MA. In test #3 we saw that 2.013 might be the true floor for a Spharai when you should otherwise have reached the 1.6 floor. We weren't expecting to be below the floor in this test though, so its not surprising we're not at 2.013.

7) " " with 220 MA:
formula predicts 117.5 delay (1.959 seconds), but you see 2.016 sec, just like you did in test #2 with only 236 MA, and test #6 with 254 MA. It seems that adding more MA really doesn't help you past a certain amount, but since we know (assume?) MA doesn't have a cap, it means we are reaching an arbitrary floor despite the formula, and that we are reaching that floor sooner than expected (which puts into question whether the floor is linear, or happens in tiers).

Again to summarize:
-Lynx Baghnakhs (30 delay), when expected to be below the 1.6 sec floor, was actually 1.76 sec. That's the best delay we've seen yet (Comeatme hasn't tested barehanded yet, which might be nice just to prove 1.6 sec is still the absolute floor)

-Spaharai (116 delay),
---when expected to be above the floor by a lot (2.0107 sec, so 0.41 sec more than floored), it was actually pretty close to that calculated value (2.0899). This is the closest we've seen the formula hold true.
---When it was close the expected floor (1.78 sec, so only 0.18 sec more than floored), the delay suddenly jumped higher than expected (2.016). This value was still seen at slightly higher delay, when you were expecting to be at 1.875 and 1.959 sec.
--When it was below the expected floor (77.34 delay, or 1.29 sec), you didn't reach the expected 1.6 sec value, or even the 1.76 seen with the lynx. You saw 2.013 seconds.

If delay is actually floored separately for each weapon based on some inherent property (probably the delay itself, which is further multiplied into the formula somewhere), that's truly depressing for high-delay weapons. The fact that the same value was seen whether the delay was meant to be 1.78, 1.875, or 1.959 per the formula, suggests that it's working more like a tier system, and that the tiers are applied differently depending on the weapon (probably based on their delay, much like how the store tp tiers work).

w/ the hurricane coming may be a bit until i get an opportunity to test anything further but will test bare hands when possible

latency should be a nonissue over a 7 minute sample, unless full attack rounds weren't being displayed(which is very atypical, even for ffxi's shitty packet structure).. the full log should rule out plugin issues as well

if anyone is impatient or just wants to see for themselves, plugin is at: https://www.dropbox.com/s/kkwaoq24fzy04n5/Debug.dll?dl=0

(ashita only)place plugin in ashita/plugins folder.. set up your mob, buffs, etc. Load plugin with '/load debug' on the character you're testing delay on, engage. First round will start timer and logging. When complete, /unload debug and the log will be saved in ashita/logs/test/.

plugin logs individual 0x28 where you are the user, which would also catch JA WS spells etc cast by you.. obviously you shouldn't be using those anyway since they will skew your sample.. and for a sample to be accurate any buffs you're testing will need to remain on the duration of the sample

Good luck weathering the storm! I'd do testing myself, but I play the game vanilla. One thing I'm also curious about, given how delay seems floored higher than expected, is how all of these adjustments are factored into tp gain now. Is the STP tier system looking at what numbers the old delay formula told you that you should be at, or is it looking at what this new floor system is telling you you're at? Any chance you have the tp gain per hit values for all those tests above?

I just got back home. Irma chased me up from the keys to miami to fort L, to tampa to orlando to jacksonvile until I was like *** it, im getting out of state and went to Atlanta, GA. a few hours after checking into the hotel Atlanta goes on hurricane watch. Irma kicked me out of the US! If anyone watched those videos of the N75 being jammed, watch carefully - you will see a random arab/irish guy with his head sticking out of a suburban screaming insults at everyone around him. especially the orlando drivers.. why does everyone in the US drive like a granny.. 70mph speed limits? really? wtf..


Anyways, is MNK fixed yet? or is it still boosting its way into obscurity?

the latter. there were no adjustments made with this month's version update unless they ninja'd it, but I highly doubt they would bother.

Monk is still the Krillin of FFXI

Just because it's like DBZ where using Boost takes the equivalent of 3 episodes to take a swing. . .

At 1000 TP it's generally the best WS to spam, with some exceptions.
When you're lacking a lot of buffs, Howling Fist will probably perform better.

HF has shitty SC properties though, VS has excellent ones.

Also if for whatever reason you end up over TP (2000+) and you have decent att buffs, Raging Fists might potentially outperform VS.


Tornado Kick showed some potential because of the attack multiplier. Byrth did a lot of test about it though and it came out that the real parsed data wasn't nearly as good as what the math suggested on paper, hinting that there might be something wrong in the Tornado Kick mods or in the known Att% bonus values

Hard to tell, depends on the target and its defense.
It might? The higher the target's defense, the higher the chances of HF perfoming better than VS at 1000 TP, especially if you have Godhands but I guess you don't :x

We usually trash Suwayas, trashed a pair on tuesday, would've gladly gave you a pair for free if you were around.
Are you sure you want them though?
I admit I haven't personally tested them on Spreadsheet or anything but I think they're pretty far from being the best H2H for Monk? And I'm not talking about RMEAs of course.

Think the best H2H options are the ones from SR (perf augs), Jolt Counters, Comeuppance +1
Think Denouements aren't that bad either tbf, probably better than Suwayas?

We won't be doing any soon sorry. As I mentioned we literally just did one on Tuesday :-(

what would be the ideal tp set currently and VS one too ?

Fisherman's set and a warp ring are pretty good.

Question about Torndado Kick and other Kick WS's, the +Kick Attacks gear is added as Base DMG on all hits before the fTP or after? I'm in the process of tuning some sets and knowing that TK is 3 hits has got me thinking it's a lot more powerful then I originally imagined.

I *** wished Fencer worked with H2H WS's.

Go several pages back and read the tests Byrth did.
Math-wise Tornado Kick was generating numbers much higher than the parse was showing.

In the end nobody decided to dig through it but it was hinted that there's gotta be something wrong in the Data we have about Tornado Kick (Lower modifiers? Lower attack % bonus than the one we think? Something else?)

It was listed as having a 50% attack bonus but that turned out to be incorrect as it has none. If the feet add a flat damage bonus to the Base DMG before fTP, then it can be quite powerful as that would be the same as adding over 200 of a stat at 40% WSD value. Raging fists is the other one I'm looking at BTW. Would the Kick Attacks +DMG value only be present on the WS during Footwork or at all times? I ask because didn't SE say something about H2H +DMG now being applied to kick attacks?

In theory dragon kick and tornado kick (and just those two ws) use the kick damage value instead of the weapon damage, but only when footwork is active.

Kick damage value is raised during footwork add the base value got raised as well during last monk patch, by an unknown value, probably you keep the difference with weapon damage close to how it was before (since that patch raised the base damage value of all h2h weapons)

Would this value be higher than, say, the value on Spharai or Godhands?



We kinda went by SE's wording though, nobody has tested these info thoroughly, something might be working differently...

That assumption would only hold true if SE didn't add H2H damage to kick attacks, but they did. Guess this is going to involve SA testing on lv1 bunnies. Was hoping someone had already done that since it could be a pretty significant increase.

The +base damage to kicks is only added when Footwork is active.

When I asked on the forums about that, it was hinted that it was just a bad translation from japanese.

Regardless of it being a mistranslation or true, a +197 damage is a HUGE difference, so huge that you should be able to see it even without large samples, parsing or whatever else.
I'm a bit skeptic they added that much to Kicks during footwork, especially given their very cautious approach with MNK as of late.
Would be very very very glad to be proved wrong though!

herc feet with 29 acc 4 TA aug, or AF+3? I realize that none has really checked since the h2h update so maybe now with weapons having higer delay/dmg it might have changed? If it make much difference I have HQ adhemar head/body/hands for tp set, and the rest is Bis stuff too.

Nothing with MNK has changed. Last time it was checked, AF+3 feet came out just a wee bit ahead. But it's very close.

Parse against yourself and see which set comes out ahead for you.



***edit: I'm not trying to sound snarky. Since kick damage was also increased, we assume, in line with the increases to the H2H weapons themselves, the change is positive but not to the gear set-ups.

I was just thinking higher delay update = higher tp per hit = a triple attack (6TA) would provide a larger gain than before, thus the small differences posted months back when comparing best legs/feet combo would probably have changed, I would assume changing more in favor or TA instead of Kick. I could be wrong though so thats why I am looking since I highly doubt the difference will even be noticeable through a parse fight. It could also be that now hitting a wee bit slower might make the TA less effective than the kick too. I dont think its as easy as go look at pre update data for a post update question. The nice part about the feet if it is still close, you gain a ton or acc and attack even over fairly well augged herc feet, easier to make changes elsewhere or ensure your at acc cap. My base acc set only has 1087 acc, so any help is a big deal atm. Mnks kind of lacking in good acc gear.

gaiters +3