IiPunch - Monk Guide

Ah okay. I completely agree with everything you just said I just wanted to know under what conditions Adhemar was winning because otherwise I may have had to rebuild a lot of the guide >_>

Thoughts on Ilabrat Ring?
BiS, Sidegrade? If so for what?

Doesn't seem bad for some WS if you're not attack capped (Raging Fists, Howling Fist?).
Also in acc TP sets if you're using Caco+1/Caco, it could be a decent alternative to Caco NQ. Slightly less acc, but lotsa more stuff.

Shijin Spiral. Maybe Howling, Raging if not attack capped

Just my thoughts. And arguably Asuran Fists but nobody should be using that WS anyway lol.

For TP? It offers some Acc and a lot of STP. Probably better than Cacoethic NQ like I said above?
But I assume Cacoethic NQ isn't BiS for Acc TP sets anymore.

Possibly, obviously Chirich Ring +1 is king but for now I left it at Ramuh +1 until it's more attainable

Ilabrat would offer less acc than Ramuh+1 but other stuff, it's possibly a decent sidegrade to that too.
It's ~4 acc traded off for 5 STP and 25 Attack.
Unless you're att capped it sounds worth it?


Also Ramzus, why Fotia Belt in Vsmite instead of, dunno, Wanion Belt or Grunfeld Rope?
The latter especially should prove to be better if att not capped, the former I guess it's a marginal difference, for which you might prefer Fotia for the chance at retaining TP.
Don't think the difference is as small with Grunfeld as well, if att not capped.

Anybody willing to share a more-or-less up to date MNK spreadsheet?

I got this :) http://www.mediafire.com/file/5gocatund1qdwn2/DPS_Calculator_-_Mnk_Jan2017.xlsx

Sorry for the delay, I said I was gonna upload this a couple weeks ago but life kinda got in the way of all the additions I wanted to make. Better late than never!

Anyway, if others can help improve on this, please do, and repost! I'm not a super pro at this, and there are definitely flaws, but it's a solid enough tool to be a pretty good comparison, and at least has much more up to date gear lists. Some of the fixes are probably easy (HQ abj set effects, maybe Smite trait, RMEA fixes), and some more complicated (getting Footwork properly modeled). My notes of what's included and known issues/items to improve are below (also shown on page 1 of the sheet):

I fully agree with the above, and I used Grunfeld on V.Smite for exactly the reasons you said. If attack capped, they're more or less sidegrades (and perhaps the chance of keeping TP giving Fotia the edge). But if not attack capped, Grunfeld wins significantly. I tend to assume I'm not capped on most things I MNK, and even if I ever was, Grunfeld is still so close I preferred not to bother.

However... January update kinda makes all of this discussion moot, because Moonbow Belt demolishes all of the previous contenders. Once you get that (got mine today woo!), the decision is very easy.

Awesome job Capu.
Some quick questions:

"Godhands: Shijin Bonus not reflected", wut? You mean the fact it makes Shijin Spiral 5/5 is not reflected and you could set it to 1/5 from the first tab? Meh... I wouldn't even bother to implement such a change, who cares, if this is what you want.

Did you implement the modified DEX/STR conversion rate when they patched 1h? They patched H2H at the same time altough the rate is different, but still better than the 1:0,5 we had before.

Also the new higher pdif we got a couple of patches ago?

Yeah, this is pretty minor. Actually when I initially made the note I was mistakenly thinking Aeonics also gave a damage boost to the associated WS like Mythics. So... sure, easy to ignore by just setting the merit level from first tab.


Yep, DEX/STR conversion should be correct. Atk:STR 5:8 (62.5%), Acc:DEX 3:4 (75%). It's accounted for on the data tab, rows 38-39.


Ahhh I knew I'd miss something. That is absolutely not reflected. Will see if I can update that. Do we know exactly what the changes were?

Thanks for the questions/comments, helps me to figure out what I'm missing!

I think we know exactely the details but I don't remember the exact number, you'll have to dig through the BG update discussion, there was a post from... uh... Byrth? Reporting the new number.

I recall the new cap for H2H is not as high as the 2H one, but it's higher than the 1H one. It's exactely the same cap as markmanship, or so people kept on saying in the BG thread.

I bet these info are already on BG-Wiki btw.

Been away for a while, miss punching and kicking things. Looking to shake the dust and rust off my mnk - what's the current consensus on gearing for maximum dmg output and which relevant current areas/content is MNK not a total hinderance to everyone else?

Nothing? (lol)

As far as the sets go, Ram is doing quite an awesome job at keeping the post in the first page pretty much up to date :)

lol, thought so. still some part of me hopes SE will recognise just dismal the situation is at the moment and make some changes.. but that new black belt isn't a good sign.

I'm not sure I understand why the new belt isn't a good sign. It's an awesome belt, NQ Moonbow blows away previous BiS TP, WS, and DT options. And I can also use it on my PUP! Not that it magically fixes all issues with the job or anything, but it's a damn good piece of gear.

In general, MNK has been one of the jobs getting REALLY good gear in the past couple updates, so that's definitely a start. Aside from the awesome belt, initial Omen update provided some truly excellent MNK pieces (all of which are limited to a handful of DD jobs):
* Niqmaddu Ring, Sherida Earring, Knobkierrie are all utterly fantastic.
* Ilabrat Ring and Anu Torque have uses.
* AF+3 hands and body are very good.

S-E has also given some recent increases to MNK through Smite job trait, recently adjusted pdif calculation, etc.

It's not as if there is one magical fix that suddenly propels MNK to being super-powered, but there have been steady recent improvements that make me believe S-E is aware and actively working on bringing MNK up. I see no reason they won't continue. From the December update and recent comments (like discussion of buffing BRD, other jobs that were big winners from last couple months' gear like RNG), it sure does seem like they are working more on throwing a bone to the currently less favored jobs while not giving quite as many fancy toys to the currently more widely popular jobs (your BLUs, GEOs, BLMs, etc.).

And honestly, MNK is not nearly as bad as people make it out to be anyway. It's in a similar spot with every other melee DD who needs buffs to perform adequately (i.e. can't self-cap haste and better hide a lack of decent backline support like a BLU). As a very straightforward DD, MNK is very gear dependent though - so people trying to get by on mediocre and outdated gear will feel it more on MNK than they might on some other jobs.

The spreadsheet had everything roughly the same, Wanion Belt would be a stupid option since no one wants to farm Provenance for it, Prosilio +1 or Grunfeld rope would be much better options. I usually try and assume capped attack for all of the upper sets since all it takes is a BoG frailty and dia2 to cap on most things, so it's up to the reader to decide on how to gear appropriately for uncapped. The guide isn't meant to be used as gospel, just as a guide.

None of it really matters any more though w/ Moonbow, which I still need to update

I like the optimism about Monk DD but don't think it is backed up by reality. My experience puts monk ahead of my melee bard but substantially behind real DDs.

I'm not claiming MNK is on par with a very well buffed SAM or something, or able to perform decently with lower buffs like something along the lines of a BLU or DNC or RNG. But it's not THAT far fetched to think that relatively minor tweaks could put things right for MNK. And from recent efforts, it does seem like S-E has noticed, and is continually giving MNK frequent little buffs and better gear - hopefully until the gap is erased.

A little further pdif adjustment (didn't S-E say something along the lines of starting small and continuing to adjust, more of a test and see approach instead of going overboard at the start?), some tinkering with ws fTP values, bumping up the Smite level, job specific adjustments (Impetus buff, perhaps?)... there are fairly small changes that could put MNK on pretty even footing with the rest of the pack.

And really, what we're talking about here is balancing for viability on very hard content. Omen NMs, Reisenjima T3-T4, that kind of stuff. You can already easily fit a MNK into a melee DD slot with minimal difference for more casual stuff like Omen non-boss farming (perhaps more a thing after upcoming update), Ambuscade (including Intense, when melee is viable), Escha/Reisen mobs aside from the hardest stuff, CP parties, etc.


To be fair, some people might already have Wanion (hell, I had one from VW days and got another from Gobbiebox fairly recently). If all options are relatively equal, an old but annoying to farm choice might still be just fine, and make grabbing a more current sidegrade far less of a priority for someone returning to the job.

Though, like we've both said, sort of irrelevant now for this particular discussion because Moonbow completely eclipses other options.

As far as the attack capped point, you're not wrong that you do run into capped situations and it's kind of up to the user. But good to highlight that there are uncapped situations too. When I have two options that are sidegrades when capped and one is way better uncapped, I'll go with the one that covers me in both situations. When we start talking about more difficult content, less than ideal buff situations (I certainly don't have BoG Frailty as a given any time I'm on MNK, maybe I'm in a fight with a GEO using some other buffs like Vex/Attune/Haste/Precision, etc.)... it's good to remind people that you should consider whether you're really capped. YMMV if you never leave home without ideal GEO buffs, but we're not always so lucky.

Yeah I'm trying, like really trying here. You just can't exploit any WS's well enough to deal damage like other DD's do. VS and SS not copying fTP and RF/HF/TK not having a high WSC is a huge blow to the ability to jack the damage up. H2H isn't even that great as a SC due to completely lacking a Distortion option, like not even having Scission to ghetto it. It's gravitation options are very poor and leaving only Fusion, which is nice, and Fragmentation, which everyone has along with Light, which again everyone has. I look at the JP and gifts and it's just terribad, nothing there that really stands out or enhances the job in a meaningful way. Critical hit rate, Critical hit Damage, Weapon Skill Damage or hell even Subtle Blow would be useful, instead it's ... guarding skill and counter damage... and *** magic accuracy...

Yeah, this is a good point. At least when I'm on PUP I have a nice Gravitation choice with Stringing Pummel (not to mention the puppet itself).


I agree with your general point that MNK gets weak JPs/gifts. Crit rate/damage would indeed be way more meaningful, and I'd prefer to see something like KA rate at some of the job-specific gift intervals.

But to be fair:
1) The Macc gifts are a standard thing across all jobs at the same gift levels.
2) MNK actually does get Subtle Blow (four times at the job-specific tiers of 125/445/1050/1900). However... this can be a totally useless gift if you cap through gear (possible) and/or Auspice (likely). My standard TP set has 25 Subtle Blow (Comeuppances+1 cuz I'm not dedicating a RMEA to MNK at this point, Adhemar head, Herc feet), so I do cap with native lv99 trait and gear alone, meaning the gifts do absolutely nothing for me. It really should be changed to Subtle Blow II, like the many new gear pieces we're seeing with that stat (Niqmaddu Ring, Sherida Earring, Moonbow Belt...). My current set has Subtle Blow+65 with two of the SBII pieces (no ring yet), which is sorta cool I guess.

As for the JPs, they're at least somewhat OK. Focus and Impetus are nice, HF is fine as far as 1hr JPs go. KA and Footwork are at least adequate.

The job-specific gifts are truly some of the worst though:
* Two Martial Arts "gifts" that, with adequate buffs, exceeds delay reduction cap and actually HURTS you by giving no benefit and reducing TP/hit (even if it's a fairly small loss, it's still actually a NEGATIVE).
* Counter crap
* Guarding crap
* Subtle Blow, which as discussed above can be totally useless

Still, when S-E planned the JP/gifts system, you have to remember this was at a time when they were probably cautious to not give MNK too much of a buff, since we were just coming out of the Adoulin era in which MNK was one of the most commonly used DDs. Now it seems they're realizing that these decisions kinda screwed MNK going forward, both with the lack of buffs other melees got, and the general meta moving away from physical melee DD.

It's not impossible to fix, and I don't even think it's particularly hard. Get rid of Impetus miss penalty, and the Counterstance defense penalty. Buff a couple WS. Further increase the H2H pdf calculations, maybe bump up Smite trait a couple tiers... These are simple and realistic proposals, and a complete overhaul of the job really isn't necessary to put it at the level of a viable high end melee DD on hard stuff.

One of the complications is PUP though, because most H2H changes affect both, and PUP could become godlike with the same buffs plus a puppet that has been MUCH improved over the past couple years. That's one reason I suspect they might be a little cautious about revamping H2H as a whole, and a harder one to get around. As a PUP too, my personal thought is GO FOR IT and let PUP be OP. But I can see why there's an arguably reasonable concern there.

It's too bad Tepal Twist overwrites Mantra. MNK could've at least been useful for increasing survivability on melee Albumen.

Speaking of Mantra, that's another one that could be changed to make MNK a lot more useful to a party. My idea is to make Mantra more like Mighty Guard, by giving it some of the same properties BLU can give to the party. Defense/MDB/magical haste? Maybe drop the regen effect since Mantra increases HP, so each one has their own HP-related effect.

I'd say allow Mantra duration to be upgraded with gear (say, Relic reforge +2/+3 feet) to get to 5min duration. That way any combination of 2 rotating MNKs or BLUs could keep a MG-esque (but dispellable) status on the party full time. Or a single MNK or BLU with revitalizers/random deal/wild card/etc.

Why not? BLU can do it already, how would it break balance to allow MNK to have one of those BLU-specific perks (other than some BLUs screaming bloody murder about other jobs taking "their" stuff)? Also avoids the issue of just straight buffing H2H and possibly making PUP too strong.

I would buff H2H RMEs so high end users see high end performance. Specifically, their effects would work on both the main and offhand.

Then I would either substantially buff H2H DPS through the skill relationship or improve H2H WSs. I lean towards the second option, despite it being more boring:
*Asuran mod increase and FTP replication
*Ascetic FTP increase
*VS FTP increase or replication.
*Shijin FTP replication and larger attack boost.

Increasing H2H DPS is interesting, but could lead to a situation where H2H users should literally only use JAs and engage, making the job somewhat boring.

If they wanted a monk-specific boost, they could let kicks proc twice per round.

I'd say that the largest issue for H2H users is a lack of exploitable WSs, so an fTP replication on VS, Shijin, Pummel might be enough to bring them back.

Yeah I was just looking through and saw them but damn they week, 2/2/3/3 for 10 total, should of been double that to be useful. In general it's just bleh. The JP's are kinda weak because they should of been +KA Rate not just +20 DMG. Focus is nice for more accuracy but it's only up 2/3, I usually just cycle it up for when Bergressor is down. Impetus is just a joke, should of been crit damage increase.

It's little things that are important, when you stack them up they can be exploited to create a ton of damage. The worst by far is the weapon skills and how they are just bland. At least Scythe and Great Axe have use's when doing multi-step SC's, H2H isn't even that good at that.

Despite the apparent bad state of the job, Omega/Ultima Master Trial has been won with MNK MNK GEO WHM BRD COR at least twice since the H2H update by JP players but I have absolutely no idea how they managed to do 10m dmg in 1 hour and to bypass Omega's PDT (among other things).

Why not address WS through improving Boost, which is now largely useless anyway? Buffing WS via MNK-specific JAs like Boost would also neatly solve the potential issue of making PUP too strong (as a PUP, I can't believe I'm suggesting this), while addressing the issue that seems to be the thing most MNKs are clamoring for the most.

When I say improving Boost, I'm talking about stuff like:
- Only affects your next WS/JA, not autoattacks
- Adds a significant (in modern terms) damage increase to WS. Perhaps something like adding a special WSC specific to Boost, or an attribute modifier like Utu Grip (maybe based on STR or DEX for MNK)?
- Perhaps also add Boost effects along the lines of WSD, Crit dmg/rate, TP Bonus, etc.
- Could add stackable tiers for multiple Boosts, but maybe adjust this to like 3-4 boosts to be at max (sorry, people who are nostalgic about 12 Boost Chi Blasts...)
- Possibly look at limiting the effects of Boost from /MNK as subjob (including possibly just making Boost usable by MNK main only so it can't be abused)

Honestly, this is what I'd look to more than just bumping up H2H damage or changing WS stats. Job-specific buffs that allow MNK to be the DD it's supposed to be, not giving PUP the ability to be a top tier DD with the master alone (AND have a puppet to add more damage, tank, support as mage, etc.), and working to give a fresh use to MNK JAs that have really lost their luster over the years.

(1) Boost changes to address lacking WS damage
(2) Mantra changes for some added party utility
(3) And maybe buff Impetus a bit (especially getting rid of its penalty/reset) for an overall DPS increase.


Formless Strikes (and resetting with the COR's Random Deal -> Wild Card -> Random Deal) involved in some way?

Formless Strikes is breath dmg and last time I checked Omega was immune to that. Also, dealing 5m dmg with just melee hits doesn't seem realistic and from what I have seen Omega keeps its PDT-99% trait even in bipedal stance.

The WS's needed fixed, without them being competitive MNK is never going to be great at DD, barely even 3rd tier. Damage in group content is about spamming powerful WS's or linking multiple WS's with a powerful finisher, it's so lopsided that we're talking 90/10 type damage splits.

Boost could simply be a +Weapon Skill Damage effect on the next WS performed, not WSD but actually a multiplier for it. First tier is 10% at level 5 MNK, second is 15% at 50 MNK, 20% at 75 MNK then 25% at level 99. Have the JSE gear raise it by 5~10%. It has a 3 min duration, 20s cool down and lasts until the next WS is performed. It can only be stacked 3 times on MNK main and 1 time on sub.

There an interesting way to give a unique damage mechanic to MNK, they can choose to sacrifice the 2s worth of TP gain in order to raise the damage on the next WS. Can even store TP and accumulate boosts's to close a SC with a powerfully boosted WS.

Give Mantra a regen effect of 30HP/tick and +15% defense / 15 MDB (sound familiar). Not crazy powerful but seeing as it raise's your max HP, pretty nice to have around.