IiPunch - Monk Guide

Although it was never meant to be a replacement for the high-end gear, the Ambuscade armor was a big enough hint that SE doesn't understand the imbalance of melee jobs like MNK compared to other jobs. There are plenty of ways to address the issue, but SE's response is more or less ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Your WS-"Base DMG" is actually your weapon DMG + your WS mod. (edit: ignoring FSTR)
Since you are talking about emp-WS assuming you have 300 STR/DEX/... (w/e the mod of the WS is) 240 DMG is added to your weapons base DMG.
Apocalypse has 362 DMG
Mandau has 124 DMG

so we are comparing 602 DMG and 364 DMG, which is "a lot"


this is one reason why crit-WS are so good. actually you shouldn't have such low Cratios but if it should happen for some reason, a critical hit (which can happen more than once on Weaponskills btw) adds straight +1.0 to your Cratio, which makes it not that bad.


Its not important what the max FTP of a WS can be. its important what the average FTP will be

Blu can beat that using savage blade with random swords.

Anyone else with both weapons noticing Verethragna are outperforming Glanzfaust significantly?

Is there a current best gear list for MNK TP and MNK VS builds yet?
If so where? If not can a well educated MNK plz make 1. I'm really
confused when it comes to gearing my Vere AG MNK since ive
been away for 5 mnths.
Thnx

Front page is up to date considering no substantial gear additions since it was changed I believe, ignore the text date.

HQ cursed gear is pretty expensive so maybe aim for the "Good Gear" section or lower until you get a solid footing again.

Not if the skillchain damage is relevant (probably even if it isn't, except perhaps with Sequence), but frankly BLU doesn't have a place in this discussion anyway. Certainly not as an accessory to bad math.

Also Shijin>Smite>Smite is probably a better route than Smite>Shijin>Smite for solo 3-step.

Cloudsplitter and Quietus are both STR+MND. Cloudsplitter is 40% in each; Quietus was bumped up to 60% each in the 2014 WS update.

I would expect this to vary somewhat depending on target/buffs (notably with regards to Glanz's Focus bonus), perhaps with WS use as well (are you spamming VS or using a mix of VS/SS/possibly other?). In a straight ahead DD spam scenario with decent buffs... I could see it, depending on what we're calling "significant". Vere's strengths are more prominent in such a scenario. There's also the question of upkeep - Ascetic's is pretty lousy nowadays and the need to build/potentially rebuild 3k TP is costly.

This job is so pathetically behind at the moment. Just a sad sad state of affairs. I get thrashed by every single other DPS in the game in mediocre gear and common weapons.

I don't know what SE is thinking, but leaving a job that's only purpose is to deal damage in this state is pathetic.

I dont have spharai, accuracy isn't the problem. Both Vere and Glanzfaust attack so slow compared to blu, and swing per swing do less dmg and h2h weaponskills do absolute *** dmg.

You still cap delay etc with it. One of the issues is besides Godhands, they left RME very low base dmg for whatever reason. My guess they think H2H gets TP faster than everyone else, and hits so hard. In reality basically everyone caps delay now, and hits as hard or harder than H2H with better weaponskills across the board.

Part of their reasoning for reducing H2H damage on RME is because you get additional +DMG from the H2H skill present on them.

H2H has a base damage of ~51
Spharai gets +140 on 119v3, plus ~30 more from the skill.
That's like ~221 damage? If anything it seems pretty high compared to other 1h weapons, no?

Guess I probably did the math wrong lol

If you ask me, while I think there are many reasons why MNK sucks atm, the main one probably is the WSs.
Before the WS reform MNK had one of the best WSs in the game (Victory Smite).
That WS rehaul (and the successive ones) barely touched H2H WSs which only received a small boost, whereas many other WSs got an unbelievable boost.

Yeah, and I think they think for whatever reason the weak WS damage is made up from white damage lol

Know what? I think you're right.

We should ask someone who's more competent than me with math, but I think the previous whitedamage/wsdamage balancing paradigms got completely destroyed since the WS rehaul.
Now the balancement is completely towards the WSdmg side, which means that in the overall damage whiteDMG counts much less than it did before, I think?


But yeah honestly I dunno, but with a couple of noticeable WS boost here and there MNK could be decent again. Not a truck like it used t be, but at least useable!

I think part of the problem is how important skillchain damage is now, and how it's directly dependent on the strength of your WS. I mean, even without going into that, white damage just isn't coming close to what you get on a WS unless you are using something like Ukon for WAR.

Pretty much, and there's skillchain damage to account for too. It's not at all uncommon for splits nowadays to be 50/50 or higher in favor of weaponskills before accounting for SCs.

I will say this: CDC testing showed that we clearly missed at least one important change from the weaponskill overhaul. A quick glance through the thread on BG where everything was tested post-update suggests that VS, SS, and probably a few other H2H WS of potential interest were not tested for fTP changes or possible fTP transference. It's entirely possible that H2H received more changes than are currently known.

Uh? Like what? I missed this ongoing discussion. What is it that we "missed" that we recently found out through CDC testing?

So those people who claimed that CDC was producing better numbers than it should've been able to (judging to math on paper) were right?

Other way around. The previous belief was that CDC's fTP was still 2.25 and that it transferred to all hits. fTP does transfer, but I found that the actual fTP value is about 1.63. As such, CDC (and thus sword DPS as a whole) was significantly overrated in theorycraft until recently.

Given that VS's stats are very similar to CDC (identical prepatch fTP, same #hits if you assume sword DWs, same WSC%), it's plausible that VS received similar adjustments. That opens up the possibility of adjustments to other WS such as Shijin Spiral and Asuran Fists as well.

H2H and 2-hander damage wasn't touched during that update, though.

Eh?

So what you're saying is that Vsmite might actually be much better than we think it is, and that CDC is worse than everybody thought it was, judging from the theorycraft on spreadsheets etc.


But if we leave theorycrafting outside of the scenario for a second and we just use parsers, I'm pretty sure we can all see quite a noticeable difference between CDC dmg average and VSmite dmg average, and that's even if you consider Godhands, which in theory should have much higher basedamage than an Almace, if my calcuations above are right (maybe they're not! xD)

There were two updates- one that included most WS and the other of which was one-hander only. H2H WS were tested pretty extensively for the update they were included in.

Three updates I think?
The third was a small one and nerfed Rudra and buffed something else.

If I recall.

Well, I was just listing off the buffs. Off-hand, I think that was just a nerf to Rudra and a couple other dagger WS.

Yeah, the pathetic bump in H2H RME damage is why I haven't bothered to upgrade my Kenkonken despite my love of PUP. Thankfully for me, DD PUP is not really a priority anyway and it's still a beastly tank, but I definitely agree that H2H was "balanced" this way seemingly intentionally due to H2H's white damage (which is far less important these days) and really makes H2H users suffer overall, especially MNK as a pure DD.


And of course, with the general beefing up of SC+MB damage, accounting for SCs also includes (very large) potential MB damage if there is a mix of melee/mage. Plus, aside from just SC damage, EASE of SCing is really important too and doesn't necessarily get reflected all that well in a spreadsheet. Really benefits those WS that play well with other strong WS being spammed to generate light/dark SCs.

In that regard, H2H does have one thing going for it in that V.Smite (and really, same thing goes for Final Heaven/Shijin Spiral) is a pretty mindless way of chaining light or even inadvertently triggering lots of light with other strong WS like CdC, Smite itself, Fudo, etc. Would be nice if it actually got a boost in damage too, but at least it's pretty easy to use to get SCs to begin with.

I don't know a ton of mnk but when I looked at it, for white damage area I remember it was the easiest of all jobs to get to 8 hit a round limit. I'll have to look into it again.

Monk's multiattack rate is nothing special, really.

Correct, though I wouldn't exclusively restrict that possibility to VS.

Sure, and there are a lot of reasons for that. CDC probably has better critrate on high level targets, BLU has more multiattack and critdmg, etc. Even if I'm right, that doesn't necessarily mean that MNK is properly balanced at this point in time. But on the off chance that such a thing did happen, perhaps H2H jobs could use that information to improve their damage output. At worst you're simply no worse off than before.

Gear selection wise- Monk is in a similar place as BLU in terms of crit rate and crit damage. CDC may have an advantage due to the higher innate crit rate and dDEX, but Monk also has Impetus and enhanced Focus on their Mythic that can compare to BLU's crit damage trait while active.

Due to both the explicit update notes on Smite and personal observations, I think it's very safe to say that VS's listed fTP is correct or very close to it.