For The Shinies! A Guide For Thief

Idk, you probably want to have both. Twashtar with TP bonus is the best, but the content you can make with that setup is limited by accuracy. You wont be able to make wave 3 fomors for example and you need buffs to make any higher level content obviously. I wouldn't r15 Aeneas tho, while I would r15 Twashtar.

Honestly Aeneas and Twashtar are pretty comparable now, but each one's respective strengths lend them to slightly different types of content scenarios. Twashtar is the go to dagger in group content where you're able to keep the aftermath up and can't expect to tp terribly effeciently. Dynamis D is a perfect example since tp use is FAR from optimized there. I'm pretty sure Aeneas is just better for high level mobs though, like Resinjima bosses and whatnot. Having both is ideal, but you're really not doing yourself that much of a disservice if you stick with only one. Min maxing is great and all, but at the end of the day if you can clear content with one I'm sure you can do so with the other just as easily. Aeneas really loses out on the augmentation benefits compared to Twashtar though, and that's what makes them so similar R15+ now.

Also I'm still not 100% sold on the evisceration versus unstacked rudra's thing unless you know for sure your attack is capped. I think that's just as content dependant as the dagger debate. And after thinking on it I actually like the relic +3 hat and feet more than I like the adhemar pieces. They just offer sooooo much in stat quantity that I think they're just better in anything that isn't a fully optimized buff setup, and at that point meghanada gloves are better than the adhemar since there isn't any set bonus anymore. I updated my evisceration setup accordingly. It's especially useful for any solo farming, like in omen where I can't count on my trusts to keep the correct buffs up all the time.

For Omen farming you can use TP bonus offhand and that makes Rudra much better.

Rip aeonic dagger

Sure, but then I'm using centovente and not Taming Sari. I threw out my Centovente years ago because Ilvl 119 daggers versus not, and I have no desire to farm another one. Aeneas is the only tp bonus dagger worth a damn nowadays, and the whole point of this discussion is that I don't feel I need it because Twashter by itself is more than enough. The difference between my perfectly augmented taming sari and TP centovente is stupid, and I'm pretty sure whatever damage I gain in rudra's power I'll lose in white damage. It's a damage 42 dagger with no Ilvl bonuses to attack, no stat vomit (which also affects weaponskills), no triple attack rate, and no treasure hunter, which is actually a big convenience since Taming's TH +1 and plunderer's armlets +3 allows me to cap my TH fulltime without needing to bother with the feet. And unlike its 75 cap era counterpart, plunderer's armlets +3 has a pretty impressive stat line, so fulltiming them during farming runs really desn't feel that bad. Proccing Th 9 and occasionally 10 is sure to increase my astral drop rate over time, and that's worth it to me. That's the whole point of farming.... you know, to get money drops. In my opinion Centovente is complete garbage and I fully agree with Ihinaa that it's a waste of time. I don't care if I can hit with it against cannon fodder content, it's just so incredibly weak it's not worth my time. Any content I can rip through with Twash/centovente and rudra's storm I can just as easily tear apart with Twaster/taming and evisceration. You don't need any kind of gimmiky creative build to tear trash mobs apart. Fodder mobs are fodder for a reason....

You can really try to deny this as much as possible but you are not Thanos, so reality wont change.

Tp bonus dagger is like +75% to your Rudra's damage at 1000tp. It will easily beat the loss of 90 damage and stats on your offhand. Assuming you have 2.0 pdif with Taming and you hit with it like 7 times during ws cycle, thats ~2950 damage in one of the best white damage sets on thf. Assumin Centovente will drop your pdif to 1.6, 7 hits with Centovente is ~850 damage. If you this 2100 white damage can beat gain from +1000 tp on rudra, then i have nothing more to say.

From more practical anecdote, I won 2 times in a row the parse on Teles with rank 10 Twashtar offhanding Centovente. 2nd parse included fully top geared r15 trishula DRG played by probably the best player I have ever known (he said he wasted big part of his 1hr on invincible, but I guess that win still count for a lot since THF has no offensive 1hr at all in this fight). Both parses include other top geared THFs too played by other top players.

So yeah, I wont convince you any more to gear for Centovente, because lack of bandwagon is actually a good thing, but creating illusion that offhand Centovente is behind offhand Taming for content when both are accuracy capped is exactly just an illusion.

You know what, I'll give you that Centovente will do more damage when you're farming trash mobs. But that still doesn't change my opinion about it. We're talking about mobs that can only withstand a single weaponskill before they die anyway. Much of that extra damage is going to be wasted on overkill. When I farm omen any non Transcended mob gets one shotted by a stacked rudra's, and if evisceration doesn't kill the mob it chunks its hp down so far that I'll only get another few swings off anyway before switching to the next target. I'm not competing to win a parse when I'm farming for myself, so I don't care if my stacked rudra's overkill by an extra 5k damage, and I spend almost as much time pulling and running around as I do fighting the mobs. Swapping my offhand dagger to centovente won't change that. I can already full clear the zone pretty effeciently so at most centovente might save me a couple minutes per run, and I really don't care that much about it. Meanwhile it is lacking in treasure hunter, and like I said, I keep my TH8 on fulltime for the bonus procs. I'm more interested in maximizing my income per run than I am in shaving an extra 2 or 3 minutes off the overall run time.

Meanwhile Centovente is pretty terrible in anything that you DO need accuracy for. If you cater your buffs around centovente when you're fighting high level monsters you're being greedy and that only hurting the other DD's in your party by optimizing one person instead of everyone. My linkshell often does 6-8 man omen bosses and based off who'se available with what jobs at the time we don't always get the perfect buff scenario, so we have to improvise more than not. The same goes for almost all of our escha NMs. We always have enough supports to take care of capping haste and to give a significant chunk of acc/attack as needed, but it's rarely the perfect storm to maximize everything. We bring what's necessary to make the mob die, which almost never results in a perfect buff lineup. And in dynamis D my buffs usually consist of capped magic haste and cor or geo buffs, but people like to change up what job they enter for unlocking purposes so again... buffs are always good but rarely are they fully optimized. I want to eat red curry buns up until the higher tier NMs start popping, and if I was using centovente in any of those cases I just wouldn't have the accuracy in my offhand to make it work.

Ultimately Centovente is a nifty playtoy, but it's realistically just a gimmik at this stage in the games life. Aeneas is a proper TP bonus dagger. The difference in Ilvl is a big deal, and practicality is important to me. That's why I take the stance I do on it.

Centovente is jesus on a bike... i use it for 95% of the stuff I do...

If you wanna be a rere derpy mc doodle... knock yourself out... i enjoy laughing at the non believers

How's the weather at the bottom of the parse?

You may wanna rethink that ride then. They say he's a chain breaker...

Just to recap for inspiring thfs out there...

Twash-r15/tp bonus is the best combo for 95% of the content you will do(w3 dyna fomors - can use on boss)



This is a terrible quote... please dont spread misinformation. People come here for information and don't need terrible opinions...

At this stage in the game even mules used for boxing have idris, rema brds and at least regal cors. Only because you play underbuffed, doesnt mean its a standard for which we should judge the weapon. Game provides possibilities making Centovente bis for most of the content and if you choose not to take advantage of those possibilities, then you simply choose to not play in optimal way, which is fine, because its your time and you can play ad you want. But trying to justify your choices by arguing that alternatives are worse or based on gimmick is another thing.

This...I do double madrigal on all 135 content whenever I lead because I don't like dps lose with acc swaps. I also abuse SV whenever its up becsuse why not. The DD that's in the pt either has a lowest acc set with max dps ready or they don't.

If they don't then another person with lowest acc tp set will win parses. And that DD will likely to get more invite next time.

There can be 1000 reasons why one player choose not to optimize in a video game. That's fine. But some people will and just let them.


Double madrigal is not really greedy buffs since melee brd benefits from it equally because their best offhand is also tp bonus, and melee cor generally needs them.

If war SAM DRK etc has any wsd DM augment fat chance is that their dm piece acc will be low that they still benefit from double madrigal too.

In general, the benefit of double madrigal greatly outweight attack songs, single stat etude, and carol/scherzo most of the time except a few fights.

Is there a mob you can beat on with a lot of hp where you don't have to care about stone/slow/stun/death? I hope there is so we can just parse this out rather than continuing this go-nowhere debate.

This is exactly the problem with your reasoning.

You forced a job that was probably already acc capped to take an addition 300 acc in buffs so your build could be viable. DRG is probably the MOST atk starved job in the game, and you took minuets away from it and then say yay!!! centovente is the best!

You at least get /war for berserk. DRG usually comes /sam.

Every single 1-handed job and even Samurai are more attack starved than DRG.

+15% ATT from Smite II
+22 ATT from ATT Bonus II
+20% ATT and +40 ATT from Max level Wyvern
+70 ATT from job points

Teles is zerg fight so bolster is available. Between CC chaos dia 4 angon bolster fury/frailty Id be surprised if pdif isn't capped.

No, this is exactly the problem with your reasoning.

You somehow assumed I forced anyone to something and assumed attack wasn't capped too, which is pure made up bs.

FYI with just SV honor march and ONE ( yes ONE ) Madrigal, I have 1644 accuracy with Centovente offhand in Reisen. That includes Sublime Sushi too. When I pop Aggressor it's 1669. That should easily cap me for Teles. This is also my LOW accuracy set (Anu torque, Hetairoi ring and Adhemar head), so you could easily go much higher just by switching to +2 neck for example, which I don't have. That's also still with rank 10 Twashtar.

So, before you make some next bs made up claims, check facts first.

So I spent some time beating on Tax'et for the sake of science. Warning before we start: since I left the mob at -99% dt, this will not give the exact measures, but it intends to give the ball park of each dagger combination, which is enough for the purposes of this debate. I did attempt to allow it to Exuviation once, but even then, it was dying too quickly.

Methodology: Use scoreboard to gauge the DPS of each combination. Buffs are pro/shell, Haste2, Honor March, Min5/4/3, no debuffs on the mob besides Rudra's gravity. No food. Same gear is used for all combinations. I use a script that auto WSs when I hit 1000+ tp for all tests.

Beat on Tax'et for a few minutes with each combination. Tax'et does not stun/slow/stone/death/etc. It only once in a long while use dispel, which is where I would rebuff and start over. I originally intended to go for 10 minutes with each combination, but I found that after about 4 minutes, the DPS steadies. After about the 4th minute, it'll bounce around between 2 numbers and remind surprisingly constant. I'll wait another minute for it to bounce to a third number and I'll use that range in the report. If it still sticks to the same two numbers, I'll just report that and move on. The numbers are the DPS that scoreboard gives me.

**Note that none of my REMA dagggers are fully augmented.

aeneas/cent - 54-55
twashtar/cent - 51-53
aeneas/twashtar - 49-51
aeneas/Eletta knife - 46-47
mandau/twashtar - 43-45
vajra/mandau - 37-38
judo+1/judo - 36-37

Other than Aeneas/cent topping the list, I don't think anything above is a surprise to anyone. You can see the relative difference between each dagger combination with the exact same buffs and setup. Twashtar/cent would obviously move up a tad if it were to be augmented.

Before I got tired of it and called it, I decided to alter the test a little. Rather than normal Honor March, I used Honor March with Marcato, giving myself an extra 116 atk, going from 1981 to 2097atk. This extra attack made a bigger difference than even I expected. The results are as follows

aeneas/twashtar - 53-55

So, conclusion. Due to how the game only reports whole numbers, and almost all of the white damage was less than 10, you may not draw the conclusion that "x is better than y by n%". However, you can draw the conclusion that "x is better than y" if the numbers do not overlap. For example, you can say that aeneas/twashtar with an extra 116 attack is in the same ballpark as aeneas/cent, but you can not say which is slightly better than the other. Both are better than Twashtar/cent without the Twashtar's augments. Whether an extra 20dex and 10% Rudra damage will be enough to close the gap between it and popping RCB with an ilvl119 offhand is up to you. Personally, I think it might send it up to that ballpark, but won't significantly overtake it.

If you want to use the cent, you better make sure your acc is fully capped, and RCB will do nothing.

It's not a surprise at all. If you add Chaos/Sam and augments on Twashtar you would see a solid change there. Without SAM roll, you very rarely has overtp above 1250, so Aeneas/Cent works great, but once you add Samurai roll and you start WSing above 1250TP more frequently, TP bonus on Aeneas/Cent will be wasted. You should also try WSing once at 3000TP to activate AM3 on Twashtar to see if 20% more chance for triple damage will make up the loss from missing ~2 WS.

Would've expected lower delay weapons (mandau) to do a lot better since all the damage is single digit and you were obviously not attack capped

WS damage was in low triple digit though.

I would argue they're better than mathing it out if you do enough of them. What good is knowing theoretical maximum damage if it can never be obtained? I agree neak probably isn't the best, because you can have one bad run that destroys the data, but I think real gameplay data with enough replication is far better. Especially if you're going to do it like Snaps and Ramzus and automate a lot of the WSing.

We have new toy



This dagger is actually impressive. I still need to calculate Evisceration potential with it, but it's gonna be probably around 30k at 1000TP, which might actually make it the best weapon for non self-skillchain spamming scenario (with Twashtar offhand).

Your THF is level 4.

Not sure if you troll or try to be funny?
In case you are serious, my profile has not been updated since like 2010 (and wont be, since it's connected with old account and GW wont respond to any mails, so there is no way to change that). It's also a mule account from back then (I had THF and Twashtar on main). I came back to FFXI around December 2017 and lvling and mastering THF and getting Twashtar was among the first few things I did. Aeneas was also my first Aeonic.

Both.

Any one play with kaja knife yet?

Oh good, it's nice to see the stage 4 weapons are usable. Kaja is looking really solid, and to think there's still one more stage left to go. It looks like a really fun toy to play with, and I love the fact that it has such a low delay. Even without the evisceration boon in the offhand it's viable, and I'm interested to see some numbers from the mainhand applications. If the final upgrade follows the trend we've seen so far it may very well have a BiS use in either main or off depending on setup. I'm very tempted to say I like the looks of Twash/Kaja more than Twash/Taming right now. The lower delay should boost white damage by a solid amount when you're able to maintain fulltime aftermath.

Played a little with Kaja knife in Reisen. Only did few Taelmoth and avg Evis dmg was around 30k. Lowest was 21k and highest spike was 39926. All in 1000-1750 tp range. Twashtar/tpbonus is still better if accuracy is not an issue, especially if you are solo and you self skillchaining with rudra spam, but Kaja/Twashtar is probably 2nd best and is not limited by accuracy.