For The Shinies! A Guide For Thief

i don't think many, if any, of the users could make a program to get all the resources and auto update a spread sheet. i can think of maybe one person off hand that could but doubt they care enough to do it.

The biggest problem with automatically updating something like that is that just about everything is augmented now, and as far as I can tell the augments are not associated with the equipment in the dats. The possible augments are determined after the fact as people experiment with augmenting. It's just about always going to be an after-the-fact manual update to the spreasheets when augments are in play.

Not concerned with augments, just the base line gear. Everyone is going to have different augments, but the relic+1 +2 +3 is all the same. AF+1 +2 +3 is all the same.

Everyone runs the same ambu capes. other Accessories have no augments.

yeah, only augmented gear I presently use for Rudra's would be herc body on the unstacked. In fact I don't think I'm using any random augment gear for anything but niche sets these days.

Willing to bet Plunderer vest beats 15 dex herc too. Don't know where the break point would be for WSD to overtake it though.

28str 49dex < 41str 46dex, target pending of course, strength does matter

Does it? I remember back in the 75 days of Mercy Stroke sets we could cap fSTR because of low dagger damage. Is that not something we can do at 119 with all the stat vomit?

And I'm only using Relic body for Trick attack, I don't need that enmity for sneak, and it's going to be close to Meghanada for sneak as well.

Going to toss some ferns at my WSD herc vest and hope for better. DEX+10, WSD+4%, but no attack and just 21 accuracy.

you probably can cap with dagger somewhat easily, twash is like 56 more str than mob defense to cap

writing something like that in python would be more trouble than just manually adding useful pieces. a more interesting program to use alongside the sheet would be something that automatically goes through the gear to find the best outcome based on the setting page, or wherever non-gear is handled.

It's also interesting how the people eager to get this information aren't willing to put in the work themselves.

It evens out, I guess.

I've been trying to get foot shard/void but I'll be damned if it isn't one of the hardest to obtain via bazaar - especially when so many are shouting for them as-is.

I know that last time I actually had uptodate spreadsheets, seething bomblet+1 was beating any dex ammo strictly due to the str+ it was quite a few updates back though.

THF and COR are the most sought pieces. Of course they're going to be hard to get.

It's kinda funny, that. The feet aren't that amazing. A slight downgrade from my TA herc in TP gain and lose 2% PDT, but gain in everything else and a replacement for my high accuracy herc boots.

With the amount of TA+ gear now in the standard set +11% damage on second and third hits of a Triple have to be better than 1% more triple attack.

Simply having and updated sheet would show that.

I would update the sheet, but I'm not going to pay for 365 just for that, can't find one I can steal, and it will not open in libreoffice or any other excel clone anymore.

I mean, yes, that's why I use them over my herc. But it's still a tiny loss in tp gain.

Increasing your base total TH does not "increase" your proc rate, it "prevents it from lowering" when your CurrentTH is below the CurrentProc. This is how it was last explained by the devteam at least. This means that no matter what, nothing more than TH13 total should have any effect whatsoever, unless something's been changed since we were given that explanation.

That said, I've already +2'd my hands and rather happy with the idea that fulltiming TH gear is not as painful a loss of actual combat stats now. You can not get a TH proc on a miss after all. Looking forward to +3 since that will put my TH set at TH13 w/o resorting to non-ilvl gear. Since finding shards was basically not going to happen, I just went the medal route and converted my own, since I'd managed to pile up enough from just sporadic runs w/ decent luck on personal loot.

I've never seen anything to indicate that TH can lower on a creature. And it doesn't fit my experience that it even can, since TH generally starts at showing a TH9 proc and occasionally hits TH10. If there was a chance at lowering in a fight wouldn't we see TH9 procs (and hell, any procs) more often?

I'm betting the Dev team gave a ***translation for what you're referencing, which isn't terribly uncommon.

Edit: Hold on, gonna ask Camate to explain himself more directly, we'll see how long it takes him to get back to me.

Whoa..Was unaware of this even though I stacked TH gear over 8 anyway. I did not see that stated in the link you provided. It looked like he was just stating that it will be harder to increase TH if you widen the gap. But you are saying if I land TH8/9(can't remember equip max) but have TH12 in gear. I can switch to TP set and it will stay TH8/9?

But isn't that already the case that it won't lower? So then there is no point to increase TH higher than 8/9 (even though I do it anyway for superstitious reasons)?

Serious or troll comment?

I play with the guy, serious, lol. He doesn't work for SE anymore, but he made the post so hopefully he remembers this ***.

But he's not on Discord atm, rereading his comment and I'm pretty sure it's saying that keeping on TH gear does increase rates. It's just a really weird wording in his comment, I'd even call it contradictory.

Yeah I'm basically 100% sure TH cannot lower.

Your chance to increase it by +1 can be lowered by using less TH+ gear.

Initial hit with 10, melee in +0 and you have a lower chance of seeing 11 than you would if you stayed in the starting set.

Cool. I have the Relic +3 Hands. I wanted them solely for keeping my dps up when asked to TH content. I only use them and capped augment Taming Sari. I don't bother with anything beyond having TH8. I have never noticed a loss of TH unless a full wipe occurs and/or the monster resets.

I didn't really read the post as "TH level can lower" at all.

It sounds like his initial line in that paragraph says it can level down...and then he explains it basically as we understand it where more TH gear can level it faster.

I think you're confusing TH level with TH rate of increase.

Yeah, that's probably why it sounds confusing, because of that assumption. So pretty sure higher TH gives a rate of increase benefit, so +4 hands, +3 feet and some TH+2 herc could give us a silly high TH and potentionally an actually high rate of level ups.

Some terms I made up and personally use to figure this stuff out and explain to others ^^;;
CurrentTH = TH Traits+gear currently equipped
InitialTag = CurrentTH value at the time of taking your first aggressive action against the current target. Capped at TH8.
CurrentProc = Current level of TH tagged on the target

From the way that devpost is worded, which is admittedly not crystal clear unfortunately, what happens is:

* If CurrentTH is equal to or greater than TH8, and CurrentProc is equal or less than TH7, then CurrentProc becomes TH8.

* When CurrentTH is equal to or greater than CurrentProc = Normal rate of TH proc increase

* When CurrentTH is less than CurrentProc = Reduced rate of TH proc increase

In other words, having higher CurrentTH than CurrentProc prevents the proc rate from being reduced.

They left it like this supposedly to avoid devaluing TH+ gear, and to force us to choose between fulltiming damage-related stats vs TH proc rate. Other than the InitialTag value, which caps at TH8, TH+gear affects nothing except for the rate of increase procs for CurrentTH.

There is nothing that could possibly indicate what you seem to think it does. :/

I think the main part of this discussion was because of that ambiguous "it" in there. Referring to the proc rate lowering and not the actual level of TH lowering.

It doesn't lower the value on the mob. It lowers the chance of getting a higher value.

The mods on the official forum also did some testing a while back that showed that increasing it gave incredibly small gains in drop rates and probably isn't worth worrying about on anything that you can kill more than once per day.

So I'm now 4/5 on Relic+3, and I'm liking it.

Including the legs. I never managed to math it out exactly(edit: kinda did below), but with the assumption that we cannot cap fSTR, which is entirely reasonable as Aeneas has a weapon rank of 23, which means we'd need to have roughly 90 STR more than mob VIT and our gear is centered on DEX and I only have 250ish STR in WS gear. Found an old VIT test which has sky gods at 110+ in VIT. So safe to say 125 mobs have 150+ VIT these days, imo.

This makes the comparison between Lustratio+1 vs Relic to be:

Lustratio: DEX+43, acc+20, attack+38
Relic: acc+46, attack+64, str+42, dex+21

After attribute translation switching to relic+3 gives:

acc+30, str+42, dex-22, attack+58, WSD+2%

Going at base WS damage for Lustratio+1 Rudra's we get 34.4 damage from DEX. Relic+3 gets 16.8 from dex and effectively 10.5 from STR, giving 27.3 base WS damage.

Considering my base WS damage for Rudra's is 410~, a difference of 7 does not counter the 2% WSD gain with Relic+3. Not to mention the major ACC and attack buffs, which if uncapped, will add a fair bit more (we still have low base attack).

Anyone able to correct any mistakes here?

Edit: Forgot to factor in WSD differential.

I have 23% WSD not counting the leg slot.

410 x 1.29 = 528.9
417 x 1.27 = 529.6

So if we have capped attack, Lustratio is going to be our max damage, likewise if we have capped fSTR somewhere along the way. But in any situation where those aren't capped, Relic+3 will win.

The "most recent" spreadsheet says lvl 123 mobs have 210 vit, and 126 has 228 vit

The DNC sheet has apex with 300 VIT

So absolutely no chance we're capping fSTR, good to know. That simplifies it.

Attack capped = Lustratio+1, not attack capped Relic+3. So outside of easy content where the damage difference doesn't matter, or maybe bolstered GEO content, relic+3 wins. Maybe even differentiate that stacked WS Lustratio+1 is better for, and Relic+3 is going to average better for unstacked.