For The Shinies! A Guide For Thief

Question.. for stacked Rudras.. Perfect Samnuha or Herc Trousers with 19 acc, 9 att, 3 str and crit dmg +4%

Dex is weak on legs anyway.. but I'm not sure if the crit dmg that high makes it appealing for stacked ws only.

Thanks in advance!

Lustratio legs

I don't have those currently. which of the two listed will do better damage?

Thanks.

Well sorry you don't like my answer. Compared to Lustratio, those two are far, far subpar, so I don't know why you'd even bother considering them. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think even Pill. Culottes +1 are a better option than those two.

And it's not like I'm asking you to get the HQ, which you should btw; the NQ is cheap off the AH and the dverger isn't hard to kill. Grab a friend and go beat on it until it spits out an abj

Incidentally, I stayed up super late to get my abj from the Dvergr, and it was before Radialens so I ended up using about 100k silt.

Anyway, between those two pants, it'll vary depending on what else you're using, particularly regarding Crit Damage. I personally don't think of Herc Pants as very good for either melee or WS, but more catered for a magic piece (as we lack good magic pants). It's up to you, but were I in your shoes, I'd use the Samnuha for the time being and re-augment the Herc for something else.

Was second or third kill for me, back before reisen came out. I killed it with a friend, me thf/brd/rdm, him pld/whm. Much weaker than many of the other tier2s.

All Herc pieces are good for -dt. I have -4dt on my legs. Alternately, if Mercy Stroke becomes a thing again, they can make good Mercy Stroke legs too.

I have some herc legs with 15str/4crit damage/20atk on them also.

Speaking of Lustratio +1, whats a good way of getting lots of angelskin? I have heard you can get it from gold chests in aby but I don't know if that's faster or what zone it's in.

Rumors say, a fished up kraken mob in Kuftal Tunnel can drop it, but keep it to yourself!

I did wonder about that myself, obviously you wouldn't be competing with several other people like in the old days but is it more or less reliable than Abyssea gold chest farming?

If it was me I'd just camp the AH and stock up, I only gun for HQs on either darksday or the day opposite to the crystal I'm using so that leaves plenty of time to AH camp.

For things jean didn't mention, i recommend petrov ring its easy to farm and adds 3 dex/agi/vit/str and 1stp over pernicious. I also use ginsen as ammo for the 5acc/10atk 3stp swap falcon eye if i need the acc.

I've really embraced the reisen sets though. Except for the body, I have at least 3-4 of each piece augmented for various thing that i used to have 20+ augmented taeon for. Such as, an easily obtainable +50% waltz potency set, MAB for aeolian, -5pdt augments, higher acc/atk dex with DW, pieces with +15dex +acc/atk +3-5%crit dmg for rudra. Lustratio legs seem to be the only part for nq set i cant replace which is good because they are amazing. I ended up making varying amount of dw sets, so im never over there are sets for "magical -no haste, haste1, haste2 and max haste" sets.

I have to disagree with jeanpaul with herc legs though, they can have just as much acc/more than other options with a good acc/dex combo. I've got max augment samnuha but i don't like dirtying up TA rate too much. I am aiming for at least 10+dex 30+acc/atk and 3-4 TA herc legs (i have those on hands so its eventually obtainable) Currently in my "max magic haste" set i have 12DA 46TA and 5QA rate when you add in jp gifts and merits 27armor 5merit 6trait and 8gifts.

Between merlinic/herc/valorous im about 8000 stones in to trying to get good augments. All of which i farmed on thf or sch spamming the t1 reisen bugard. I can usually pull 35-50 sacks an hour depending on various factors but sch is able to kill twice as fast as thf because of the stunning/invinc, with TH3 from th+2 merlinic head and chaac belt i dont miss too many triple sack drops. The last run i did i got 30 taupe,5fern and 10pel sacks out of 18 pops with 8mins left on radialens but ran out of shields on sch. On thf, even doing self darkness spams each kill took 3-4mins and sch is half that so might want to consider gearing it to get stones for thf because you will end up blowing them by the hundreds and thousands for anything worthwhile.

Abyssea Farming: Going into a zone and Aeolian cleaving to build amber lights seems decent on paper, but I've found that Angel Skin is one of the less common materials. For what it's worth, I've had slightly better luck in Vunkerl, but overall it's kind of a time sink and I wouldn't recommend it unless you're also farming other materials or other Abyssea items.
Kuftal Tunnel Manta: Also very time intensive with an unimpressive drop rate, but I would probably suggest this to someone over Abyssea.
Certain NMs: FFXIDB lists the drop rates as being pretty low from all sorts of (mostly Abyssea) NMs. I wouldn't recommend this as a farming method due to travel/respawn times.
Voidwatch: While the drop rate is low here too, you're at least farming other valuables, which makes it more worth your time. Taking advantage of the current VW event and grabbing a ton of displacers to speed things up, you can get a decent haul while also getting plates, cinders, etc.
ANNM: This is one of my preferred methods. Doing the ANNM for Windurst in either Meriphataud, Garlaige, or Sauromugue yields a decent chance at an Angel Skin (I'd say like 40%ish). While it's quick, you can only do it once per RL day (at least you're not spending whole evenings in Kuftal Tunnel). I'm not sure if the drop rate is better in one more than the others, but it's probably the same. Note that this event is uncapped.
AH: The price has probably come down a bit compared to a few months ago (at least it has on Sylph), and I presume it's due to Herculean gear making an appearance. I also presume that there's an increase in supply when the VW event is ongoing. Anyway, if you have a Bonecrafter friend, consider buying up the NQ cursed Hecatomb to forge, as the extra materials are piece of Maliyakaleya coral and Immanibugard's hide, both of which are cheap/not hard to acquire.

Thanks Jean.

I'm aware the mob isn't hard and the items cheap. It's always about time for me. I'm working on a few jobs and was more curious about crit dmg vs dexterity without getting too intense with the math.

I see NQ Adhemar Wristbands suggested over Herculean Gloves a lot. Does that account for good Herc augments (i.e. TA+4% and decent Acc)? Wondering if/when augmented Herc overtakes NQ Adhemar. +1 abj gear is too pricey for me so not even worrying about that.

I have Herc currently augmented with DEX+9 Acc+27 TA+4%. I also have NQ Adhemar. That breaks down to:

Adhemar (A): STR+15 DEX+53 Acc+37 TA+3% STP+6
Adhemar (B): STR+25 DEX+53 Acc+22 Atk+15 TA+3% STP+6
Herculean: STR+16 DEX+48 Acc+39 TA+6%

Just eyeballing it, I'm definitely inclined to pick the extra TA+3% on my Herc over either Adhemar choice (plus significant Acc edge over Adhemar B). Whatcha think? Am I undervaluing STR/STP on Adhemar B and overvaluing TA? TA+3% seems like an awful lot to give up... FWIW, I'm not using mythic, so no AM3 to lessen the impact of multiattack.

Varies by the rest of your gear (how much Store TP you're using, specifically), but they're relatively close regardless. I lucked out in getting Adhemar +1 so I can reserve Herc for WS (which can easily top Lustratio +1), but even with NQ I'd probably use Herc for the same purpose.

Note also that Adhemar B is STR+10 DEX+10 Att+15, not Acc. Path A has AGI instead of STR, and Acc instead of Att.

Whoops. Yeah just caught that error and was correcting my post. Which Adhemar are you suggesting? The better Acc on A path, or the additional STR/Atk on B?

I'm kinda thinking I may just keep B path Adhemar for when I don't need as much Acc, since I already have Herc with approximately same Acc as Adhemar A. But still, losing TA+3% kinda stings...

Thanks for the feedback at any rate! I'll still use the Herc stuff for PUP TP in any case - currently I've been erring on the side of TA for my other light DD jobs too.

Adhemar hands are actually the only abjuration piece I have two augmented R15 pieces of... but one is a C path for ranged stuff on RNG COR.

A is better for TP, which is really what you'd want to use Adhemar for anyway. Herc's DEX and WSD is best for THF WSs, though you might settle for Crit D (a minor downgrade) if you're using them for a job like BLU as well.

More generally, given the Adhemar/Herc discussion... Is there any sort of rule of thumb for how to value Store TP on THF? I get that Store TP is a useful stat, and that we aren't just talking x-hit builds (since additional TP overflow does help on WS numbers). But what kind of Stp are we talking about to beat a point of, say, TA? Remember that just like Store TP, multiattack will also result in faster TP gain and TP overflow... AND more opportunities for crits. I'm not sure what kind of Store TP focused builds you're talking about that would have so much STP as to change that decision significantly (but if there's some example of a significantly different looking Stp build, would be cool to see).

Taking the Adhemar Wristbands (A path) versus well augmented Herc (TA+4% augment, good acc augment) example... my choice essentially comes down to TA+3% versus Stp+6, with the other stats being very close across the board. It seems crazy to me to think that would be a sidegrade for a DW job (particularly non-Mythic), shouldn't TA+3% easily beat Stp+6 in ANY build?

Please correct me if you can explain why this is wrong.

And clearly, for the specific comparison in hands slot Adhemar hands are quite a nice option and have the benefit of being completely predictable with augments. But, assuming you're capable of farming either the abjuration or the T1 Reisenjima armor, for the going rate of the Vexed Wristbands and Eschalixirs to get R15 Adhemar it seems highly likely that you'd be able to manage a very well augmented Herculean piece with less gil worth of stones.

FWIW, my assumptions about a high end 2016 TP set are starting with something along the lines of this:
ItemSet 341519
- Herc pieces with TA+4% augment, Acc, whatever else
- Adhemar Bonnet is reasonable substitution for Dampening Tam, depending on Acc needs
- For weapon, Sari/Sari, Flayer/Flayer, whatever. Personally I've had crap luck on perfect/near-perfect Saris though so I'm using 1 of each.
- This is a general starting point and could obviously could make further swaps based on Acc needs. Ramuh+1, Olseni Belt, Zennaroi or Dignatary's Earring, etc.

The interesting questions where deciding between Store TP and multiattack are the blank ones:
- Cessance Earring versus Brutal?
- Erudition Necklace versus Asperity/Lissome/Clotharius/whatever?
- Herc Gloves vs. Adhemar Wristbands (not blank, but discussed in detail above and the same essential question)

That set has 10% DW (or 15% depending on your cape), and THF only needs 6% with Gifts and capped haste. You can probably get away with 5% and expect rounding to cap you, which means you could drop Suppa in favor of wearing both Cessance and Brutal. You would also probably benefit from swapping Petrov out for Hetaroi Ring.

Otherwise, your set looks good. Awesome augmented 4% TA Herc hands/feet are clearly stalwart pieces. Perfect Samnuha tights are going to be sticking around a while (unless you really really need Acc).

If you are making a low acc TP set, Yetshila and Bleating Mantle are likely good options?

If you throw Adhemar +1 into the mix, head/body are an excellent combo for a low Acc set. Body is still great for a high Acc set, but you probably have to swap the head back to Dampening.

TA vs STP is really in the same category as Crit D vs WSD. You'd want good amounts of both, ultimately, which may depend on things like augments or other gear options you have. It's a little tricky in some slots due to limited choices, but also bearing in mind the importance of accuracy. Here's a few questions you can ask yourself (or I can ask you):

- How many job points do you have? Eventually you get +8% TA from gifts, as well as the DW+5
- What's on the Herc boots and Skinflayer?
- Are your SR pieces maxed out, and if not, are you still doing SR with plans of getting the maxed pieces?
- How's your accuracy?
- What support (particularly haste) can you expect to get, even if from trusts?

I think there was an older THF mentality of TA being flat-out better than STP, probably prior to Adoulin and definitely before the WS updates. This made more sense when Mandau had a serious edge over others as WS damage wasn't as significant. Anyway, if you have a DPS spreadsheet, despite there being a few new things these days (like Vorseals), you could likely input your TP set and it'll approximate how much time it takes for you to get TP.

It was back when TA was still rare. Nowadays, we're all wandering around with 50+% TA.

On a similar thread, we're not there yet, but also not too far out from questioning the usefulness of mythic aftermath.

I've just come back to working on my THF and don't yet have the 550 gift, but good point and thanks for the reminder (and yeah, dropping Suppa for Cessance/Brutal does make sense once only DW+6 is needed to cap).

I have a Canny Cape with DW+1%, crit dmg+3%, and some dex so I use that for "perfect" 80% reduction and it's still a pretty great cape even without considering the minor DW, but yep I'm also fine with sitting at 1DW under true cap if the situation calls for it (e.g. Bleating).


As mentioned above, crap tier job points at the moment (100-something)as I've just started paying attention to THF again. But yeah, I'd work on those and good point about the gifts.

Skinflayer has DMG+19, and from memory Acc+something (18?), DEX (maybe 4?), and crit dmg+3%. Using a relatively up-to-date DNC spreadsheet I was still getting that coming out below a strong Sari, but i still think it's pretty good.

Herc boots have TA+4% and 20-something Acc as the big stats, and a small number of some attribute (DEX IIRC)

Every relevant SR piece for my jobs except Sari I have max or almost max augments. Max Dampening, Samnuha legs are just barely below max (STR+8/DEX+9/DA+2%/TA+3%). My best Sari is just DMG+9 and STR/DEX +8/9, despite many many many SR runs. It has gotten to the point where SR is more frustrating than fun though, since I'm only after one item and the odds of getting Super Arciela, the correct drop, AND excellent augments is quite low.

For accuracy, don't recall number offhand but it's generally in good shape other than the current lack of Acc gifts. Herc pieces have 20+ acc, and I have a wide selection of acc swap gear. Grounded Mantle+1, Zennaroi/Dignitary's earrings, Olseni Belt, Honed Tathlum, Ej/Clotharius/Erudition necks, Ramuh+1 ring, etc.


Heh, that's the kicker for any melee these days, isn't it? Fine getting capped haste from trusts solo or very lowman, otherwise it's more an issue of people not really using setups with great melee buffs these days.

I guess I'm more optimizing for optimization's sake to be ready if needed. But currently I find my THF used more for soloing drops (Warder necks, etc.) or when people just want me to tag stuff for TH and aren't particularly concerned about my damage. Doesn't mean I don't want to figure out how to be the best though ;)


Apologies if there's a good DPS spreadsheet linked recently that I missed, but is there anything fairly up-to-date available without requiring a ton of work on my end to get it updated?

Conceptually I still have a little bit of a hard time grasping that Store TP (on such a low TP/hit job anyway) is inherently THAT much better than additional attacks for TP generation/WS frequency. Hard to argue with math if that's how it plays out, but makes it hard to see without having access to a particularly up-to-date spreadsheet (and having to tweak a lot of stuff like adding appropriate level enemies like 135+ stuff and not optimizing for outdated content, GEO buffs, tons of different augment comparisons, etc.)

Good point by Ihina too about the massive amount of TA we're running around with these days. The utility of all this multiattack does indeed probably warrant some more critical review these days. It's something I also struggle with on my Mythic job (PUP), but that might all change soon depending on the RME buffs anyway if the other stats get a big enough bump.

I've been updating the old spreadsheet when I have pockets of time, but I'm honestly very negligent about keeping focused on it. For the most part though, the old spreadsheets still work fine, but you would have to manually add new gear yourself.

I forgot to address your necklace question: I'd personally say just go for the Combatant's Torque (use Erudition in the short term if you're not far from it), as 1 or 2% DA is pretty minuscule, especially when we already have so much TA. Erudition would be better in lower acc situations, but Combatant's being all jobs is just too good to not get.

Oh, I think it's definitely something that should always be questioned. Right now, using AM3 with a heavier lean on Store TP helps WS frequency more than pushing for more TA. However, I could see a TA heavy set with Mandau or Twashtar post update being very potent.

This is extremely helpful. I've been doing it the past few days with wonderful results. It hardly takes any time at all either.

Do the empyrean hands enhance the sneak attack hit itself, like do you have to have them on when you connect your sneak attack hit? or do you get the bonus when you have them equipped and you then you use the JA, afterwards allowing you to switch to anything you want?

All, or nearly all, Empyrean gear bonuses must be worn to maintain the effect (MNK body's Impetus, NIN head's Innin, SAM hands' Sekkanoki, BLM feet's Manawall, SCH feet's Klimaform, etc.). This includes THF's hands.

okay. ty!

Goodies

Mandau
DMG:124 Delay:176 Attack+60 Magic Damage+155 Dagger skill +269 Parrying skill +269 Magic Accuracy skill +228 "Mercy Stroke" Additional effect: Poison Aftermath: Critical hit rate +5% Critical hit damage +5% Afterglow

Twashtar
DMG:124 Delay:176 DEX+50 Magic Damage+155 Dagger skill +269 Parrying skill +269 Magic Accuracy skill +228 "Rudra's Storm" Aftermath: Occasionally deals triple damage Afterglow

Vajra
DMG:125 Delay:200 Magic Damage+155 Dagger skill +269 Parrying skill +269 Magic Accuracy skill +228 Enhances "Sneak Attack" effect V Enhances "Trick Attack" effect V "Mandalic Stab" Aftermath: Increases Accuracy and Attack Occasionally attacks twice or thrice Afterglow

Mandau aftermath gets +5 crit hit damage
Twashtar aftermath gets occ x3 damage instead of x2

I'm actually pretty surprised about Vajra's low dmg. I was estimating around 134. I'm not entirely sure, but it's probably no longer the best dagger, unless you're using SA/TA/Mandalic Stab, if you're able to use high amounts of TA gear.

Things to figure out (which you'll probably be able to help with):

- Are there changes to Mandau's added damage on melee hits?
- Length of new Aftermath on Mandau (I'd estimate it's more like 60 min per 1000% TP)
- I gotta figure out how to calculate in AM3 on Twashtar, it looks like the old AM was never even included
- New damage ratios need to be factored in

Preliminary calculations still put Vajra on top, though I'm also surprised by it's low DMG (unless it's an error like when Death Penalty had insanely high DMG). Mandau seems to offer the highest melee DPS, meaning it would be better in situations where Vajra's boosts are overkill and AM3 is impractical. Aeneas still seems to edge out Mandau though for total DPS (due to the TP Bonus). Again, these are incomplete calculations, so I wouldn't go making major investments just yet.

FRICKEN JP MIDNIGHT WAIT.

Least, I think it's a jp midnight. Ingame text says, "That should be all I require. I should have your new armament ready in the next couple of days. A master requires time"

I want to call in sick tomorrow <_<

From the patch notes