PLD Vs NIN...Who Is The Best Tank?

All good, I'll see my way out. Endgame rants are boring, and never actually accomplish ***.

TL,DR!

That's pretty funny, but I meant my personal fastest death anyway :p


And that's why PLD kicks arse as tank over nin/drk in certain situations, well that and the fact that losing hate isn't so much the issue as staying alive.

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Earlier you wrote this



This was the only post in this thread where you mentioned evasion Ninja. Where else did you mention evasion Ninja was good besides Charybdis? You implied that the previous poster was lulz by saying evasion Ninjas cannot last more than 10 secs.

Also if you are NOT lazy you could tank HNMs even with great support as an evasion Ninja. You have to go through many macro sets non-stop to make this effective. You WILL dodge more than 50% of their blows if you go this route (with one 2nd tier Mambo and full evasion). Macro in enmity while casting spells, swap to evasion, macro in haste/fast cast for utsusemi, swap to evasion, etc etc.

I have an idle set (jack of all trades set except for magic defense) for Ninja HNM tanking which I like to use when I'm lazy and have great support.

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Once again I would like to point out, all you said about evasion Ninjas in this thread for non-Charybdis is 10 secs of lulz. No offense but reading this as your support for evasion Ninjas on HNM is a bit strange. (low person argument)

Evasion Ninjas work while fighting said HNMs using the strategy written above under any condition.

Oh it wasn't cause he wasn't a pld that he was taking so much dmg its cause he never could keep shadows up. He died to BB pretty fast when me as thf and him were teh only melees... needless to say after I finally managed to somehow get hate I proceded to tank it easy... well keep shadows up and keep myself alive... keeping hate not so much. Cause already discuss a nin without shadows is pretty much just as squishy and fail as any other melee

Well, I think it's just that the exp-level PLD v. NIN got answered a ways back, in that, an average PLD > average NIN, and that at some level ranges, either tends to shine a bit more than the other.

Hell, in the Jungle, WAR/MNK with a Great Axe is probably the best tank, but people think you're insane if you ask them to do it. And no, I'm not joking. PLD and NIN both suck against Mandies for their own reasons.

End Game stuff nothing compaires to RDM/NIN on any mob no matter what..if you don't believe me then you either A? You've never witnessed it or B) you are to stuck on Pld or Nin to even try it...

RDM/NIN or gtfo on everything that isn't zerg'd

Or the mob has hate reset moves... or you don't wanna wait as long to build hate.

I've seen it done well, although limited (EG RDM/NIN tank), but most people I know that use RDM/NIN much don't have setups and gear for tanking. They are used to doing things like soloing Sky pops for gil and such, which takes dramatically different approach.

Because of that, when you suggest RDM/NIN tank to one of them, they usually tell you where you can go stick it.

The few RDM/NIN endgame tanks that I've seen do it well also have PLD and/or NIN leveled, and are not new to tanking the big stuff.

@Dasva; that just comes into the whole situational thing again. BB is easy for anyone to tank, but if you don't have someone to stun whirl of rage your nin will have shadows stripped and be stunned and dead pretty quick. A PLD will get shadows stripped and be stunned for a while, but he'll still be alive and kicking when stun wears. And since stunning a tp move means the mob still has tp, nin/drk isn't a reliable source of stun for whirl of rage 'cause he can just try again straight away.



Blu/war is even better still in the jungle.

Yeah but I survive just fine in DD gear on thf...perhaps BB was a bad example he fails at keeping shadows up when farming diorites too

After checking your profile, you clearly have played Nin for a long *** time, and I'll concede to giving you the benefit of the doubt when it comes to what you have done on nin.

I still don't think this is a very needed option for endgame nin (lol?) but if you can make it work then kudo.

Let it be known though, that for mages who don't have blinkmenot the amount of blinking your setups include would be hell on them.

At least you learned something before I left :p

u my boo

PLD vs NIN? hmm..SAM. Question answered, next thread =)

Actually kanican used sam/war to tank and main DD saremeya when they 6manned it...

The LS that did that 18 hour PW fight had sam as main tank too. I keep meaning to ask about sam tank, aramina mentioned it as well.

Someone tell me the pro's con's of a good sam tank.

Hate gained through DD and provides significant damage, access to high levels of damage reduction gear, use of a JA instead of shadows for damage avoidence (meaning no shadow wipe from a multi strike attack or Ga spell)

Well you dont have to cast third eye and sam can still DD well. Against accurate fast mobs third eye>>> utsesmi. They have good resist builds. They have good defense builds...
cons: third eye wears off on its own... all AOEs strip it and still deal you dmg with no other blink to put back up. You cant lower its recast with haste... no real hate moves.

iv tanked most of my levels on SAM (btw the LS that beat PW was Apathy from my server) but anyway
Pros: Access to most high def gear in the game. High parry skill. Third eye and Seigan. Access to almost all Emnity gear (aside from a few <job> only pieces.) Ability to keep hate very well due to its DD nature. Sam af body also gives more TP when hit (something to look into). They also have the ability to use sword and shield. Something else iv been meaning to try out.

Cons: Shield skill isnt as high as a PLD. Def isnt as high as a PLD. No ability to self cure. People see Third eye as being inferior to Shadows. Players dont parry as much as they evade which makes the "parry tank" useless to some.

this stupid ***hasnt been locked yet?

The debate is ages old... since they released both jobs, I'm sure. At this point in the game's lifespan... we should all be smart enough to realize both have thier uses, for different party formations against different monsters.

You cant ever say one is better than the other because it's entirely situational.

Well Dasva and Dubont made it sound pretty much meh, but Froebus made it sound pretty damn good, so I'll direct this question at you: Why is it so damn uncommon?

And to Dubont: Are Apathy the LS that BEAT PW or are they the ones that did the 18 hour fight? Two totally different cases.

"STOP WHINING!"

That's one of the smartest things you've ever said on these forums, but you still managed to sound like an elitist ***.

Im not sure but i know they were the first to beat PW using the log out method.

I learned this before I even knew of the existance of Cyr/Houdini, but if you want to take credit for by all means you can have it..sooner or later more ppl will learn the uberness of rdm/nin, but then again ppl are always stuck in there lame ways and will never listen to the voice of reason..but whatever if they wish to fail who am I to stop them?

Thats cause he didnt list any cons...also needs you to pay real close attention several gear sets that need to be switched in and out at a moments notice

Then no, it wasn't an 18 hour fight (not that it matters). The shell that first really tackled PW lasted 18 hours before it kicked their *** with astralflowga, twice I think. That was the event that made SE change JoL, AV and PW to a 2 hour max fight. Also, [img], not [IMG]



People might be stuck in their ways, but that doesn't mean they're failing. And since they're succeeding, why does it matter if they don't use rdm/nin? It's all well and good finding new and better methods of doing things, but if you find something that works, stick with it.


Yeah that'll prolly do it.

why are we having this discussion, everyone knows PLD tanks crush NIN tanks by leaps and bounds.

Granted, NIN tanks are situational, but for overall performance... no.

Here are a few tank varieties that are very effective, but don't get the credit they deserve:

PLD/DNC (Waltzes + Cures = Lots of Hate)

RDM/WAR (SS + Phalanx + Genbu's Shield = No Damage)

DRK/NIN (Heavy Armor + Many Hate Gaining Spells/Abilities + Dread Spikes + Drains = Basically a Dark Palidan)

agreed, iv actually tanked as drk/nin before. There are many job combos that can tank and tank fairly well they just arent used because people dont want to try anything new its always "do this or you fail"