(Don't) Fear The Reaper: A Dark Knight Guide

Feelings: strongest scythe modifier since 2003!

This is a DPS thread no fun, no feelings , no new people allowed to talk here.(me)

I said the top or near the top, nothing about every single parse. Furthermore you brought in a pic of 1 person running 1 fight with scythe, which is hardly evidence of scythe possibility. I did the same thing showing more dps on a single fight. Which doesn't even show the true potential of the weapon because I was using GS sets on Apoc instead of making new sets.

Again, none of what you said was as helpful as you think it was. You want to help people, don't tell them "promote lowering their performance to make everyone else's life harder...." Help them find a way to make that weapon deal more damage.

The way you present yourself is a form of bashing, you have made people feel shamed because they spent time and effort making something you don't feel is the better option. You made it seem as if a mythic drk is going to drastically slow down the parse and you can no longer win zerg fights because you brought a scythe drk and not a rag drk. You should really consider your presentation, especially when you talk about, "if someone came in this thread they would get the impression..."

Parse is never an evidence in a dps discussion anyways, since we know nothing about the player and gears. But you are the one who mentioned it as a way to evaluate a weapon to begin with. You are the one who started with "scythe can parse top"(thus used parse as an evidence) then proceed to bash me for using parse in the discussion as well. This is double standard.

I have never claim I'm "helpful" in this thread since Im not even information provider. I simply spotted controversial claim in a dps discussion, and pointed it out. And for somehow that make me the target of hatred or something.

So when we see information that encourages people to lower dps in a dps discussion we can't even express disagreement? Ok.

So I make people feel "shamed" of using scythe because I posted a parse thats already in public and everyone can see? Ok. Maybe people should just turn off parse data in YouTube video instead so nobody get feelings hurt when others see them. It's not like I secretly parse people without telling them then post it in public to make them look bad.

And yes I also disagree with some of Kylos comment but that's barely relevant to scythe weapon. Exactly what I said to Kylos comment make people "shamed" of making a scythe?

I honestly don't understand exactly what I said on the forum made people feel ashamed of their weapons. It seems that you are just angry at people for saying facts in a dps discussion then you wanted to direct anger toward me.


Again, facts are facts, math is math. And these days we are not allowed to talk about facts and maths in a dps discussion otherwise you are an elitist and that makes everyone ashamed of themselves, geez.

Math is math, glad you pointed that out. Math has proven that scythe can be a noteworthy DD.

Furthermore I am a reactive person, I don't just start ***because I have nothing better to do with my time. I only brought up parse/dps because people were trying to compare the two weapon types before I got involved.


First off, you don't play drk, which should have been the cut off of the convo right there.

Secondly, not all instances will blood thirsty zergs be the best way to do things. My ls learned this the other day when I told them I wasn't going to come drk to teles after some of the issues we had. I switched to a melee rdm, did WAY less dmg because I spent my entire time spamming dispel and dia 3. The fight was much smoother, the "added" time was worth it because we didn't have whm's stressing on cures, I wasn't contending for hate with the tank, we had all the needed dispels AND nobody died, nor even came close to dying when I was on rdm instead of drk.
So no, dealing the top possible dmg isn't always the best idea.

Third, this is an MMO, not everyone is top geared on the jobs they came, you need to know how to adjust for that in order to allow a tank to hold hate better, if that means dealing less dmg and increasing the fight time a couple minutes to avoid dead DD or mages taking conal dmg because a reso just pulled hate, guess what. That is the better run, the one that eased the stress on the party because someone either held back or just couldn't pull that hate off to begin with. There are 2 DD in my shell that will rip hate off a tank on any fight, both of us have to hold back in order to make smooth runs because it isn't worth losing because we wanted to deal the ultimate dmg. We also have an AoE temp rotation to help cure/tp wings/mana power/clerics. DD can be more than just spam the highest dmg ws, they can actually be useful in more areas than one.

Fourth, I will give you that one. If the whm isn't curing they shouldn't be on whm. Nothing drives me more insane than mages that don't heal, use -na, or cast haste.... I.E. do their job.

However in the case of doing your job, as a DD you often need to do more than just DD. This includes putting on -dt gear and dealing less dmg in order to prevent death. This includes holding back if the tank just isn't on that level just yet.

To address the final issue with your last statement,
"Again, facts are facts, math is math. And these days we are not allowed to talk about facts and maths in a dps discussion otherwise you are an elitist and that makes everyone ashamed of themselves, geez."
Talking math and facts is fine if you don't give them the impression that their play style is going to be the cause of a loss or time out. That isn't true, again, you want to not look like an elitist? Help them set up the gear for the weapon they chose instead of only telling people they are inferior DD because they don't use Rag.

Ok as this is a discussion about DPS I would like some clarity of the below

Before you read the below, please read it in the mind that I am calm, have no anger in my question and in the middle of drinking a nice cup of tea

Mythics.. in general give the aftermath of occasionally attacks 2-3 times. This paired with enough store tp to give a 250 return on each swing = a 4 hit build, or ws +3 hits and ws again. This gives the result of a fast hitting zerg stick where you can spam ws regardless of how good or bad they are over and over, correct?

Regardless of how poor insurgency is, its still a multi hit ws, and one that your aftermath from the liberator can attack multiple times during said ws. The +30% increase from the weapon also adds to the damage. (I'm sure I read in the afterglow update notes this moved to 40% also) <<< Feel free to slam dunk me here if this is false

The parse you could see from WoC we did a few runs on as melle in a very well organised and geared group of people/ We tested Anguta and Raganrok but I tend to do more with my liberator in a situation like that then I do with my relics. I'm not going to win a parse in a situation like that, I don't have any HQ argosy yet but am working to obtain however we seem to be purely focusing on the ws, not the added affect. Kracken club back in the day had crazy amounts of white damage when paired correctly in a zerg situation, I always assumed the mythic was the step up from this hence why I went and got it. Drain 3 combo with AM3 flowing and souleater blood weapon works wonders with it.

I do come out with better numbers on my liberator build but that dosent mean it right, more so that I have poor gearsets for my Rag tp and ws sets (something to work on) however a 4 min fight the AM3 should take the lead? right?

fing angry galkas....

Something to remember about Mythic AM3 is that you can only proc one Multi-Attack per attack round, meaning it competes with QA/TA/DA for that proc. Back at 75 we can very little Multi-Attack, at 99 we had more but still not nearly as much as we have now at iLv119. This has resulted in Mythic AM3 being devalued as a whole. The specific issue with Liberator is that Insurgency is only 30/30 for STR/INT which severely limits it's potential with gear. INT in general is a really bad WSC to have for a physical WS but only having 30% STR is a huge kick in the nuts for DRK. The single biggest issue I see with Lib DRK's is they think that first 3K Insurgency for AM3 is somehow their "average" and then announcing to the world that it's "just as good".

Can't speak for DRK, but even on DRG with DA+15% from Gifts, Mythic AM3 is still very hard to top without Fighter's Roll or Ifrit's Favor.

Surprised I don't see people talk about using Caladbolg over Ragnarok. Yeah, you lose 60/75 Acc and a Fusion WS, but surely there's plenty of settings where neither of those matter.

1) Way to play the "if you don't have said job you should shut up" card. I made no comment regarding the job itself, I only made comment about dps, there are no "qualification" required to participate in a dps discussion.

2) You proposed a situation that favors lowering dps, but that's not the situation Kylos proposed.

You lowered your dps by coming on utility job that provides utility spells, therefore sacrificing dps in such scenario is a logical decision because you've gained utility.

In Kylos scenario, he proposed sacrificing dps for no appearant gain, by claiming "it doesn't take long to get 3000 tp" or "your whm isn't happy to spam cure" or "it doesn't make a difference".

Again, what's the reason to have a dps discussion, if everyone just proceed to make a point like "doing more dps doesn't make a difference?" We may as well delete the thread because more dps doesn't matter.

3) In terms of "DD pull hate" argument, I didn't say DD would never pull hate. But DD pulling hate barely affect your weapon choice. You can lower your dmg and pull less hate regardless of weapon if you just dps less. Unless the weapon you choose has significant pdt- advantage, I'm personally not seeing hate issue favors one weapon over another.

4) Overall I find Kylos comment strongly favor Lib(his favorite weapon), to the point that he minimizes the negative side of lib while over emphasis the downside of Rag. I personally find the opinion not objective, that's why I said something. You guys may think I just have an issue with Kylos personally, but that's not the case. Back in the past I have stated disagreement against many others presenting biased opinion toward their favorite weapon as well. It's not just against Kylos nor Scythe users.

In the end I'm just asking for objective opinion in a dps discussion, and asked people to leave personal preference out. I'm not telling people to gtfo with scythe, and I'm not attacking anyone prefer to use scythe. I am only asking for objective, unbiased info in a dps discussion. Is it really that hard to understand the purpose of it to the point that you have to play the "you are just an elitist" card over and over?


These days we are not even allowed to seek information for better dps otherwise you are an elitist, geez.

Insurgency could be 10%CHR, if Lib does more dmg than other weapons, why not use it?

Thanks

No... just noo... please don't bring that horrific weapon up.


Because it doesn't, not remotely.

I have both Afterglow Rag and Lib.
I can tell you it can!

Afania, I appreciate your contributions to forum discussions when it moves the conversation forward, as in contributes to the forum's progression. However, why do you feel the need to post these long, multi-paragraph arguments over minute things like the qualifications for a forum discussion of DPS? Could you do this in another forum please? Instead of trying to start irrelevant arguments? It's about two pages too late at this point, but still.

Thanks.

That would be a huge loss to both the thread and a bunch of people who follow it. You offer your own view on the job and many people, my self included enjoy reading it. There are many of us who want diversity, It's a massive part of the draw of the game to many and within this thread you definitely offer it, so don't let the stubborn views of a select few dishearten you.

I have to point out that it's very weird when people who you can quite easily see have no real interest or commitment to the job come here to voice their views almost as gospel and tell the people who ARE committed how wrong they are. What purpose do you exactly serve other than having a petty sense of superiority? The snobbery of a "few" poster/s in here really is just plain awkward. "This is crap because this is better" argument is so toothless within a game that promotes different play-styles. What is optimal to you is going to be completely boring to another and you really just need to deal with that. It should be noted that any guide isn't there for the sole purpose of optimisation but also to help people enjoy a job even more.

The worst part of this for me is they (the snobolite/s) actually offer some really, really good advice in small doses but it's completely overshadowed by nauseating amounts of elitist splugeing, which none of us bar possibly the poster themselves wants to see. So please for the love of Zeid, cut it out so this thread can resume being a guide and less of a melting pot of inconsiderate and biased opinions and uncontrollable rants like this one.

On a brighter note I now have an almighty urge to build and afterglow both a Caladbolg and a Liberator, Because y'know... it's my choice after all. Wish me luck.

I would have move on after your post if it isn't Thorva repeatedly attack me for being "elitist" due to one post that I made, then proceed to ignore my entire point of asking for accurate, unbiased information without personal preference involved.

You played blame game for and targeted me for "keep this going", I think it's double standard as Im not the one started personal attack toward individuals. I only kept posting to reply Thorvas personal attack.

I posted my opinion about people being subjective with their opinion in a dps discussion. If ppl disagree with me then just move on and pretend I didn't post anything, what's the point to proceed and attack me for being an elitist just because I voiced opinion about people being subjective? This discussion kept going because Im forced to defend for myself after being called elitist, not because I actually care about what weapon ppl use to the point to start some kind of crusade.

Guys, guides are about discussion and from that debates are to be expected but it's not really good to be calling anyone elitists, noobs, etc for how they play or what weapon they use. Relax.

Can I call someone an ***? I got in trouble for that last time, so I guess that still isn't allowed is it...

Let's not do that. lol

Dammit....

It is also equally awkward to assume everyone who posted opinions to encourage improving dps in a dps discussion are doing so due to "petty sense of superiority". I have absolutely zero "superiority" feeling towards Kylos nor Thorva as I don't even know them, nor I think I can out DPS them.

I enjoy reading and learning ffxi mechanics, and explore solutions to improve performance, regardless of the job. That doesn't give me superiority feeling towards other player or anything. Idk where the assumption came from.

Kylos posted his opinion, therefore people will challenge it. It's just the nature of discussion. What's the point to attack whoever disagrees?

But oh well, guess only DRKs are allowed to talk here :X And whoever dares to participate in the discussion are elitists.

I like this paragraph a lot.
Mainly because I came from other MMO's where DPS is literally all that matters, ever. A boss dies faster, less mechanics it does. A boss dies faster, less chance of messing up. a Boss dies faster, you can literally skip entire mechanics. A boss dies faster, less chance of healers ooming, etc.

Just shows this games combat system is decades ahead of any other "modern" mmos.

Just for clarity I wasn't including you. I don't have a problem with discussing most things in life but when it borders beyond the topic at hand that I begin question the reasoning behind posting to begin with. I appreciate many of your posts and would encourage you to keep posting. However, from experience, getting into drawn out arguments (if you will) on an internet forum will make you question your sanity.

You're also allowed to talk here by the way (it's a forum) but for our sake, A) Try to keep it on topic and B) Try to stay humble, I'm sure others will follow suit.

You were one of the ones trying to convince me that Lib was the bestest best ever, even after I provided information about how it's not remotely close. Fights needs to be longer then ~2 min for it to start to catch up, or your doing a long multi-step SC.

Note of REMA's and their usage.

If someone wants to use a particular weapon then they should just use it, not attempt to justify the decision with ***. When it comes to pure DPS vomit it's nearly impossible to get Scythe to beat GS due to Scythe WS's sucking so bad. Yes they suck, don't try to justify SE's incompetence and poor design choices. Adjust your gear around that particular weapons to get the most out of it, just don't try to justify it.

Dude. We. Get. It.

Anytime you want to *** around with DRK/THF. It's absolutely absurd if you build specifically for it, and Caladbolg is better at it than Ragnarok. That said, Zulfiqar is better than either of them for it with proper augments.

Do we?

It seems that a great deal of the people that spark these arguments and discussions don't actually bother to read a couple pages back in the guides to look for an answer. This goes for almost all the guides on the forums. READ THE ACTUAL GUIDES. If you're serious about a job, you should take the time to study it. There is so much information through these threads from tons of great people.

That being said, think outside the box and try different stuff. If you want to use scythe or GS, just do it. Hell, use "The power of friendship" if you want!